Loss of salvation???
- Thread starter gratefuloneson
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Re: your first sentence, the same goes for many of us. And the phenomena continues as we learn more. The more we know the more we know we don't know was a very astute and realized piece of wisdom. Honestly, I think it will be part of our forever experience in association with His omniscient mind. I look forward to Him constantly amazing me.
That teacher you mentioned sounds like the epitome of what this should be all about. Whether or not he passed on to you any error you probably have a sense of by now. Remaining in His Word with His Spirit tends to expose and repair such things.
That teacher you mentioned sounds like the epitome of what this should be all about. Whether or not he passed on to you any error you probably have a sense of by now. Remaining in His Word with His Spirit tends to expose and repair such things.
-
2
- Show all
If God can turn his metaphorical flock into a metaphorical horse, do you think He can turn a metaphorical goat into one of His metaphorical sheep? I know you were arguing against sheep becoming goats, but my question still seeks an answer.
Can a metaphorical grape vine become a metaphorical fig tree? Can a metaphorical axe become a metaphorical fire? Can metaphorical children of wrath become Christ's beloved bride? Why do people treat sheep and goats as if literal, in contexts where they are obviously metaphorical?
Can a metaphorical grape vine become a metaphorical fig tree? Can a metaphorical axe become a metaphorical fire? Can metaphorical children of wrath become Christ's beloved bride? Why do people treat sheep and goats as if literal, in contexts where they are obviously metaphorical?
-
1
-
1
-
1
- Show all
I clearly recall if one wishes to disagree, it was no problem, as long as he remained objective.
So?
What have you learned on your own that we would need to know?
Something, that the type of teaching you wish to neutralize, would keep us from knowing?
I have disagreed from time to time with what was taught.
And, during those moments, I thought to myself, they would make for a perfect excuse for someone wishing not to continue learning from that teacher, to seek elsewhere.
But when weighing all the excellent teachings I had been exposed to over the years, those moments never held me down,
to keep me from learning more of what I never knew there was to be known!
Those moments reminded me of when Jesus deliberately offended a huge crowd that had been following Him.
How many got themselves up and followed Him no more. John 6:66
Yet his disciples held the right attitude in their hearts and stayed.
So?
What have you learned on your own that we would need to know?
Something, that the type of teaching you wish to neutralize, would keep us from knowing?
I have disagreed from time to time with what was taught.
And, during those moments, I thought to myself, they would make for a perfect excuse for someone wishing not to continue learning from that teacher, to seek elsewhere.
But when weighing all the excellent teachings I had been exposed to over the years, those moments never held me down,
to keep me from learning more of what I never knew there was to be known!
Those moments reminded me of when Jesus deliberately offended a huge crowd that had been following Him.
How many got themselves up and followed Him no more. John 6:66
Yet his disciples held the right attitude in their hearts and stayed.
I had moments where I had to just hand a perplexing issue up to the Lord and keep moving.
If someone had challenged me concerning the issue, I would have made my faith look foolish to follow.
Then, to have a year later, something come across my eyes that answered what was impossible to answer a year ago.
Only to realize that when I stopped looking for the answer, I had handed it to the Lord and rested, rather than fearing
being trapped for not knowing how to answer.
In the interim year of waiting? I realized is a time many who would wish to give up the fight would quit.
To seek shelter from what they fear being exposed by?
They will seek a mantra belief type church to stop realizing their need to question and seek greater growth.
That is why we see things like TULIP and other pet doctrines is all they can talk about.
In that way, they became hiding from what they were exposed by and left fearing.
That is why we need to work out our salvation in fear and trembling as we wait for God IN HIS TIMING to provide
stabilizing needed answers. Doctrinally sound answers that we had no idea how to construct when our vulnerabilities were exposed.
Casualties of war happen.
If someone had challenged me concerning the issue, I would have made my faith look foolish to follow.
Then, to have a year later, something come across my eyes that answered what was impossible to answer a year ago.
Only to realize that when I stopped looking for the answer, I had handed it to the Lord and rested, rather than fearing
being trapped for not knowing how to answer.
In the interim year of waiting? I realized is a time many who would wish to give up the fight would quit.
To seek shelter from what they fear being exposed by?
They will seek a mantra belief type church to stop realizing their need to question and seek greater growth.
That is why we see things like TULIP and other pet doctrines is all they can talk about.
In that way, they became hiding from what they were exposed by and left fearing.
That is why we need to work out our salvation in fear and trembling as we wait for God IN HIS TIMING to provide
stabilizing needed answers. Doctrinally sound answers that we had no idea how to construct when our vulnerabilities were exposed.
Casualties of war happen.
Wow.. that was edifying and helpful. 
Mine anger was kindled against the shepherds, and I punished the goats: for the LORD of hosts hath visited his flock the house of Judah, and hath made them as his goodly horse in the battle.
Is it not edifying to warn people who are over-literalising obvious metaphors in scripture, not to over-literalise obvious metaphor in scripture.
Still using the KJV, I see?
Always hated it.
It made me feel like I needed a tour guide to interpret for me the natives of a local village.
Here-
Like I said before!
A sheep becomes "like" a goat.
It does not become a goat.
And, you want to argue over this?
Always hated it.
It made me feel like I needed a tour guide to interpret for me the natives of a local village.
Here-
Zechariah 10:3
“My anger burns against the shepherds,
and I will punish the leaders;
for the Lord Almighty will care
for his flock, the people of Judah,
and make them like a proud horse in battle.
Like I said before!
A sheep becomes "like" a goat.
It does not become a goat.
And, you want to argue over this?
Metaphor is a starker form of simile. Saying a person is a sheep is a figure of speech equal to saying the person is like a sheep. Saying a person who is a sheep cannot become a person who is a goat, because a literal sheep cannot become a literal goat, is to confuse genres of literature.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Pointing at those who were commissioned to preach the Kingdom Gospel to Israel, which did indeed require water baptism for THEM, and apply that to us today who are under the Gospel of Grace, that does indeed create more problems for such a system of belief.
The dichotomy you are proposing is that coupling any work to unmerited favor, that's counterintuitive and antiscriptural. What part, may I ask, of unmerited favor do you not understand? 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4 makes no mention at all of water baptism as an element for salvation. Are you prepared, then, to accuse THE apostle to the Gentiles of the sin of ommission? After all, for Paul to have left out an element necessary for salvation, that would have been a horrid blunder that neither Peter nor any of the other apostles scolded him for having omitted...IF in fact that were an omission, which it was not.
So, what your post does is to attempt forcing into the Gospel of Grace an element for boasting..."Well, I was also baptized for my salvation, which added to the sufficiency of the Blood of Christ..."
So, are you now saying that Paul, OUR apostle, was wrong? Do you think he left out an allegedly vital part for salvation?
MM
The dichotomy you are proposing is that coupling any work to unmerited favor, that's counterintuitive and antiscriptural. What part, may I ask, of unmerited favor do you not understand? 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4 makes no mention at all of water baptism as an element for salvation. Are you prepared, then, to accuse THE apostle to the Gentiles of the sin of ommission? After all, for Paul to have left out an element necessary for salvation, that would have been a horrid blunder that neither Peter nor any of the other apostles scolded him for having omitted...IF in fact that were an omission, which it was not.
So, what your post does is to attempt forcing into the Gospel of Grace an element for boasting..."Well, I was also baptized for my salvation, which added to the sufficiency of the Blood of Christ..."
So, are you now saying that Paul, OUR apostle, was wrong? Do you think he left out an allegedly vital part for salvation?
MM
I didn't even bother to read the rest...... it's unnerving that folks are looking to a computer for answers about Godly things.
AI is bad if it disagrees with you.
The multitude of interpretations of the scripture that church organizations indoctrinate their members
with. Are not always based on what the scripture may be saying. AI is a simple third party that has no bias
when reading the text.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Do you really fail to see yourself in what you write??? It's always so odd you going on and on about needing to
accept what the Bible says when you yourself remove great swaths of it in order to cling to your false doctrine.
"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5:13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5:1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6:6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8:36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.
Chat GPT sure failed big time there.
accept what the Bible says when you yourself remove great swaths of it in order to cling to your false doctrine.
"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5:13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5:1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6:6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8:36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.
Chat GPT sure failed big time there.
How can Chat GPT fail when it's merely reading the text as it sat the US lawyer's bar exam and passed.
-
1
- Show all
Some of the things you begin with are not clear to me so I'm just skipping through.
There's no point in telling you what I think you need to know, doctrinally. These discussions draw things out over time, and we can discuss and argue if and when the time arises. And it's been decades since I walked away from the Free Grace Dispensationalism tradition.
On a general note, I'll say that after seminary an event within part of that camp caused me to settle into an extensive and lengthy set of personal studies in the languages, mainly in Greek, mainly on Faith and Salvation and even the Gospel and I came out viewing each of them differently than I was taught, mainly re: Faith itself.
That led into getting deeper into things like security and works and other things like eschatology. It also freed me from any camp favoritisms and facilitated a simple, open and objective look at just Scripture and reading different takes on it if and when I ventured out to do so. IMO there's no better place to be.
There's no point in telling you what I think you need to know, doctrinally. These discussions draw things out over time, and we can discuss and argue if and when the time arises. And it's been decades since I walked away from the Free Grace Dispensationalism tradition.
On a general note, I'll say that after seminary an event within part of that camp caused me to settle into an extensive and lengthy set of personal studies in the languages, mainly in Greek, mainly on Faith and Salvation and even the Gospel and I came out viewing each of them differently than I was taught, mainly re: Faith itself.
That led into getting deeper into things like security and works and other things like eschatology. It also freed me from any camp favoritisms and facilitated a simple, open and objective look at just Scripture and reading different takes on it if and when I ventured out to do so. IMO there's no better place to be.
In regard to the Bible?
Literal reading can many times be worthless without having any capacity for understanding.
Perhaps, AI could be used for the reading of the text before a message is to be given?
On the other hand?
The Antichrist most likely will use AI to enforce his tyrannical laws.
Enforced without mercy nor compromise.
Old McDonald had a computer!
A I - A I - O!
........
Literal reading can many times be worthless without having any capacity for understanding.
Perhaps, AI could be used for the reading of the text before a message is to be given?
AI is not going to have the following essential qualities needed to advance and mature in Christ!
I pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father,
would give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge
of Him." Ephesians 1:17
And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more
and more in knowledge and depth of insight. Philippians 1:9
On the other hand?
The Antichrist most likely will use AI to enforce his tyrannical laws.
Enforced without mercy nor compromise.
Old McDonald had a computer!
A I - A I - O!
........
-
1
- Show all
It seems to me most if not all have such times. It's part of the process of having our faith tested and refined and establishing our abiding and endurance.
When you speak of giving up the fight and casualties of war you almost sound like the loss of salvation side, but...
Isn't Faith Alone in Christ Alone & OSAS or similar also a mantra belief type church?
When you speak of giving up the fight and casualties of war you almost sound like the loss of salvation side, but...
Isn't Faith Alone in Christ Alone & OSAS or similar also a mantra belief type church?
In regard to the Bible?
Literal reading can many times be worthless without having any capacity for understanding.
Perhaps, AI could be used for the reading of the text before a message is to be given?
On the other hand?
The Antichrist most likely will use AI to enforce his tyrannical laws.
Enforced without mercy nor compromise.
Old McDonald had a computer!
A I - A I - O!
........
Literal reading can many times be worthless without having any capacity for understanding.
Perhaps, AI could be used for the reading of the text before a message is to be given?
AI is not going to have the following essential qualities needed to advance and mature in Christ!
I pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father,
would give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge
of Him." Ephesians 1:17
And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more
and more in knowledge and depth of insight. Philippians 1:9
On the other hand?
The Antichrist most likely will use AI to enforce his tyrannical laws.
Enforced without mercy nor compromise.
Old McDonald had a computer!
A I - A I - O!
........
Many letters are an easy read and don't require any interpretation.
Take, for example, the letter identified as 3 John.
I have never seen a single interpretation of 3 John.
The problem with the N.T. is nearly always a failure of reading a letter in context.
A letter can state that Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead.
That is a simple statement that anyone can understand, even Chat GPT will recognize that.
It's another matter to believe that we receive forgiveness for our bad behavior by that sacrifice
on the cross. We receive a reconciliation to God through Jesus Christ.
Never confuse the contents of a simple letter written to a church (literal) and the spiritual
truth that a simple letter may contain.
OSAS is not what the N.T. teaches from a literal reading of the N.T.
OSAS is an interpretation applied to the text.
-
1
- Show all