Concerning the gift of tongues

[ocean]

Check the context of that verse. Is speaking mysteries here a practice God wants. .or is it out of order/part of the problems the Corinthians were having with their pagan beliefs combining with Christianity?

1Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. 2For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. I Cor.14

That really needs no further explanation and has nothing to do with the out of order practices of the Corinthian church. You have to either make a practice of understanding the Bible through the lens of your own (meaning anyone and not just the person I am quoting) prejudice/personal experience in order to somehow understand what is plainly written by Paul (as he explained the spiritual gifts) as a negative towards the gift of tongues rather than the positive Paul has outlined.

Yes. Please do check the context; read the entire chpt. 14 for instance.

 

[ocean]

this has been talked about on CC for ever. i've witnessed it a few times & it was nonsense. any human could tell it was a waisted effort. 1st Corinthians 13:8 seems to teach that tongues shall be cut off, like a ceasing of operation. then, in 1st Corinthians 13:11, the teaching is that tongues will cease when the full revelation of God in scripture is completed. & that occurred at the end of the apostolic age which was when the new testament was completed. at least around here, it doesn't occur. i do not believe in speaking in tongues at this time.

This is a constant within Christianity period. CC is just a microcosm within the macro. Tongues has not been cut off anymore than wisdom has been cut off although the latter may be debatable at times. If you do not believe in tongues that is fine as that is your decision. However, your personal convictions are not in alignment with scripture. No worries. I have probably heard/read every objection that can be offered and I understand why the devil objects so strongly to the gift or else finds ignorant people who will fake it and cause derision on spiritual gifts. Nothing new under the sun.

Perhaps some people have only just joined or maybe some just read without joining. Perhaps they might be interested and want to understand scripture better. The Bible indicates the continuance of spiritual gifts. Some people choose which they will believe in such as teaching. Those people should not teach if they do not accept that all the gifts are still in operation regardless of the fakirs and liars and the false; of which there are many. There are many false Christs in the world and sadly many who believe they are speaking for God when they are not.

 

[ocean]

Key points... The tongues are identified to be practiced in a New Testament church setting.

It's meant for the local NT assembly of believers

They are inferior to prophecy

They should be interpreted for the edification of others in the church.

They should be understandable to the listeners...in their language.

They should be used by one or two..at the most three...and have an interpreter present.

The church at Corinth was in a port city.. affected by many different peoples who had a lot of paganism with worship of many gods.

They also practiced paganism tongues most likely.

They were competing with each other on the gifts .. trying to be superior to each other.

Whether speaking mysteries is condoned or not... the best way was to interpret the tongues for the edification of the church.

Tongues in church should be translated if spoken out loud. Praying in tongues is another matter. You seem to be pretty loose in identifying what Paul meant rather than what he said. So much of the NT was written for instruction and correction. The scope of
tongues is way beyond a language to be understood by all present.

The understanding that tongues is only for church use completely leaves out the fact they are for edification and the building up of
the body of Christ. This current world and actually the US itself, is affected by many different peoples with a lot of paganism with the worship of many gods, so there is nothing new under the sun after all.

Tongues are not inferior to prophecy if interpreted. Again. read chpt. 14 of I Corinthians and try not to change what is actually contained therein.

 

[ocean]

What I'm saying is counterfeit tongues was going on..and that it was most likely trance like state with unintelligible sounds.... from pagan religion of the time.

Not that Paul was doing this.. but he was comparing the false with the true tongues.

So not the Paul was influenced, but the Corinthians were. And Paul was guided but the Holy Spirit to admonish the church at Corinth to edify the church with tongues they could understand.

As it was in Acts 2.

Yes that is what you are saying. YOU are saying. You are never going to convince those that have the genuine gift that they do not have it and frankly, as time goes on, I care less that object with their opinion and object to what is actually written.

But God knows, there are still those who do want to know the truth and for those, God will lead them to the truth. It is just a shame that some take it upon themselves to try and discourage those already functioning in that gift and worse, trying to discourage those who wonder if the gifts, ALL of them, are still given.

 

[BobCarabbio]

I also wonder if anyone here does operate in the gift, if so then what does it feel like to you when you speak in tongues and what have you seen it do to those who hear?

"Tongues", "interpretation", and "prophesy", along with any other gift employing spoken utterances all operate in identical fashion.

You "HEAR" in your spirit what the Spirit wants to communicate whether in a language you understand (as in Interpretation or prophesy) of one that you don't (as in "Tongues"). The "Interpreter / Prophet then speaks the message they've been given to the selected audience at a time dictated by the Holy Spirit.

The "Tongue" may or may not translate into the resultant Interpretation (sometimes it appears to be a "Trumpet sound" to get the congregation's attention for the Interpretation).

The "tongue" is occasionally a KNOWN LANGUAGE by somebody present hearing it. it's on record that the COMMON language is spoken and it is HEARD in one or more different languages.

The "tongue is often used in prayer, or praise with no accompanying interpretation as the Spirit speaks to God for whatever reason. some of it is laid out in 1 Cor 14.

This or that "religious paradigm / denomination" will "Make up" rules under which they think "Tongues" (or other giftings are permitted to operate, but it's nothing but "Theology" so no bug deal.

Spiritual gifts are NOT OWNED by those manifesting them, but are temporary empowerments to accomplish specific ministries at the Holy Spirit's pleasure and with HIS timing.

Personally I've spoken in "Tongues since 1973, Still do, but NEVER delivered a "Message in tongues" to a listening audience. I HAVE Interpreted, and spoken Prophetically.

 

[wattie]

Tongues in church should be translated if spoken out loud. Praying in tongues is another matter. You seem to be pretty loose in identifying what Paul meant rather than what he said. So much of the NT was written for instruction and correction. The scope of
tongues is way beyond a language to be understood by all present.

The understanding that tongues is only for church use completely leaves out the fact they are for edification and the building up of
the body of Christ. This current world and actually the US itself, is affected by many different peoples with a lot of paganism with the worship of many gods, so there is nothing new under the sun after all.

Tongues are not inferior to prophecy if interpreted. Again. read chpt. 14 of I Corinthians and try not to change what is actually contained therein.

Right...so edifying the church in the context of Corinth..was that local New Testament church.

The body described in 1 co 12.. is the local body. It isn't describing all redeemed.

But you are right..interpreted tongues edified the church. Not inferior to prophecy then.

 

[Karlon]

This is a constant within Christianity period. CC is just a microcosm within the macro. Tongues has not been cut off anymore than wisdom has been cut off although the latter may be debatable at times. If you do not believe in tongues that is fine as that is your decision. However, your personal convictions are not in alignment with scripture. No worries. I have probably heard/read every objection that can be offered and I understand why the devil objects so strongly to the gift or else finds ignorant people who will fake it and cause derision on spiritual gifts. Nothing new under the sun.

Perhaps some people have only just joined or maybe some just read without joining. Perhaps they might be interested and want to understand scripture better. The Bible indicates the continuance of spiritual gifts. Some people choose which they will believe in such as teaching. Those people should not teach if they do not accept that all the gifts are still in operation regardless of the fakirs and liars and the false; of which there are many. There are many false Christs in the world and sadly many who believe they are speaking for God when they are not.

i listened to studies about tongues with tom durance & charles stanley & they both agree tongues have ceased. it made sense to me. someone resurrected the idea around the late 1800's or early 1900's & it took hold. but then, once, i had this vision that tongues are true. i didn't mention that earlier.

 

[ATSTD]

Warning!!! Not Safe for Work!!! (NSFW)

Do not search online for women with long tongues…

 

[Lamar]

...or on ourselves, who would be as wicked to demand a sign (MT 12:39, 2CR 5:7).

Not asking to see a miracle just evidence of the miracles already claimed.

 

[Lamar]

If you do not believe in tongues that is fine

I most certainly believe in tongues.

It is the actions that is labeled tongues today that is being questioned.

 

[Blain]

i listened to studies about tongues with tom durance & charles stanley & they both agree tongues have ceased. it made sense to me. someone resurrected the idea around the late 1800's or early 1900's & it took hold. but then, once, i had this vision that tongues are true. i didn't mention that earlier.

the late 1800's is also when a major world rervival occured so that may be why the idea was brought back but as far as basing your understanding on what others say becareful with that because what if they are wrong what do the scriptures say?

 

[Blain]

"Tongues", "interpretation", and "prophesy", along with any other gift employing spoken utterances all operate in identical fashion.

You "HEAR" in your spirit what the Spirit wants to communicate whether in a language you understand (as in Interpretation or prophesy) of one that you don't (as in "Tongues"). The "Interpreter / Prophet then speaks the message they've been given to the selected audience at a time dictated by the Holy Spirit.

The "Tongue" may or may not translate into the resultant Interpretation (sometimes it appears to be a "Trumpet sound" to get the congregation's attention for the Interpretation).

The "tongue" is occasionally a KNOWN LANGUAGE by somebody present hearing it. it's on record that the COMMON language is spoken and it is HEARD in one or more different languages.

The "tongue is often used in prayer, or praise with no accompanying interpretation as the Spirit speaks to God for whatever reason. some of it is laid out in 1 Cor 14.

This or that "religious paradigm / denomination" will "Make up" rules under which they think "Tongues" (or other giftings are permitted to operate, but it's nothing but "Theology" so no bug deal.

Spiritual gifts are NOT OWNED by those manifesting them, but are temporary empowerments to accomplish specific ministries at the Holy Spirit's pleasure and with HIS timing.

Personally I've spoken in "Tongues since 1973, Still do, but NEVER delivered a "Message in tongues" to a listening audience. I HAVE Interpreted, and spoken Prophetically.

thank you for your responce it was very enlightening the few times I have encountered actual tongues not random babbling it was in the form of prayer and worship not really a message but boy is there power in it unlike anything I ever felt before
It is to bad I don't speak in tongues with what I have seen and been learning of what it can do how it edifies empowers and strenghtens the believers

 

[Blain]

I most certainly believe in tongues.

It is the actions that is labeled tongues today that is being questioned.

that and a lot of new age so called holy spirit actions like holy laughter and falling down over each other as if your having a seizure

 

[Brasspen]

One time I did it in front of a linguist. And she wanted me to speak more so she could try and figure it out what he was saying. She was able to figure part of it out.

I really didn't want to do it any for her, because the Holy Spirit is not to be used for such things.

 

[Blain]

One time I did it in front of a linguist. And she wanted me to speak more so she could try and figure it out what he was saying. She was able to figure part of it out.

I really didn't want to do it any for her, because the Holy Spirit is not to be used for such things.

maybe it was for her and God was just using you to speak to her?

 

[Brasspen]

I know what she said was, 'You shouldn't tell people that.' But, she had proof of God's presence. She knows I didn't know what the Holy Spirit was saying. But, I still don't know if she believed or not.

 

[ocean]

Right...so edifying the church in the context of Corinth..was that local New Testament church.

The body described in 1 co 12.. is the local body. It isn't describing all redeemed.

But you are right..interpreted tongues edified the church. Not inferior to prophecy then.

Right. But that gift does not stop there.

 

[ocean]

I most certainly believe in tongues.

It is the actions that is labeled tongues today that is being questioned.

Well Lamar I was not addressing that to you, so no need to be defensive. There are (sadly) many churches that seem to ignore
the instructions given by Paul as to how a person should conduct themself when operating in this gift. But read the posts again. It is
a denial of this gift being spoken of by some. And again, that is their choice but the Bible is clear on the subject.

Thanks

 

[ocean]

i listened to studies about tongues with tom durance & charles stanley & they both agree tongues have ceased. it made sense to me. someone resurrected the idea around the late 1800's or early 1900's & it took hold. but then, once, i had this vision that tongues are true. i didn't mention that earlier.

Well Charles Stanley has also ceased and Tom Durance is not found as an author of scripture. I (try) to pray and listen to the Holy Spirit and have also had the blessing of being taught by a good number of teachers who are well versed in the original languages.

But you do you.

 

[JimiSurvivor]

the gift of tongues seems to be a misunderstood gift by many in the church speaking nonsense or just empty words but what does the gift have to do with the body of Christ? well it is for the edifying and empowering of the believers but it seems to be either a rare gift or just non existent

personally I have only experienced it a few times the real thing that is and if I could tell you what it feels like to experience the real thing well for me it felt like an invisible hand moving my heart like the awesome and mind blowing power of God was being poured into me like I mean poured big time it leaves you stunned in awe of God it fills you with this life and you can feel a fire or surge of power flowing inside you all of a sudden

However I have encountered so many fake tongues as well that I might as well not believe in it but because I believed in it even though I never saw or experienced it before that is what made it possible to experience the real thing believing without seeing for myself.

I also wonder if anyone here does operate in the gift, if so then what does it feel like to you when you speak in tongues and what have you seen it do to those who hear?

I have heard much that I believe is nonsense. However, one friend of mine who was a missionary to India reported that he was leading a group of Indian young people in prayer when he went into some other language. The young people told him that he had been speaking in one of the many Indian dialects of which he had no understanding. When my friend asked them what he had said they told him he had been praising which is exactly what the content of tongues was in the NT:
…45All the circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues and EXALTING GOD..."
(Acts 10:45-46)