John 3 and Water Baptism in the Ministry of Jesus Christ

[TrustandObey]

Much has been said about the importance of water baptism in the ministry of John the Baptist but Jesus during His earthly ministry baptized even more through His own disciples.

John 3:22-26
After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He remained with them and baptized. Now John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there. And they came and were baptized. For John had not yet been thrown into prison.

Then there arose a dispute between some of John’s disciples and the Jews about purification. And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified—behold, He is baptizing, and all are coming to Him!”

It seems that the people were coming to Jesus for water baptism and He did not turn them away.

John 4:1-2
Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),

It seems clear that Jesus was a advocate for water baptism as much if not more than John the Baptist.


It appears that the ministries of John the Baptist and Jesus Christ were woven together by water baptism early on:

John 1:32-34
And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”

Regardless of what we may personally believe about the purpose of water baptism (sign or essential) Jesus certainly was a proponent.
Can we at least agree on this?

 

[ResidentAlien]

Regardless of what we may personally believe about the purpose of water baptism (sign or essential) Jesus certainly was a proponent. Can we at least agree on this?

I doubt it. I've been saying exactly this for a long time, and yet there are still those who preach that baptism isn't integral to the gospel. But the fact that you're saying it too may indicate progress.

 

[Gideon300]

Much has been said about the importance of water baptism in the ministry of John the Baptist but Jesus during His earthly ministry baptized even more through His own disciples.

John 3:22-26
After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He remained with them and baptized. Now John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there. And they came and were baptized. For John had not yet been thrown into prison.

Then there arose a dispute between some of John’s disciples and the Jews about purification. And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified—behold, He is baptizing, and all are coming to Him!”

It seems that the people were coming to Jesus for water baptism and He did not turn them away.

John 4:1-2
Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),

It seems clear that Jesus was a advocate for water baptism as much if not more than John the Baptist.


It appears that the ministries of John the Baptist and Jesus Christ were woven together by water baptism early on:

John 1:32-34
And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”

Regardless of what we may personally believe about the purpose of water baptism (sign or essential) Jesus certainly was a proponent.
Can we at least agree on this?

I don't believe many would argue against water baptism. The question is usually, "Is salvation dependent on water baptism?" The answer is no. Believers should be baptised. This is not the same as must be baptised.

There are plenty of baptised people in hell. That's because they were formerly dry sinners and came up wet sinners. My own son was baptised, against my wishes, arranged by my ex wife. He is not saved.

There are many unbaptised in water believers in heaven. Many Christians are martyred before they can be baptised. Some are saved in prison and denied the opportunity to be baptised. Others are saved on their deathbed. Others still are simply ignorant about water baptism.

We are saved by grace through faith, not by works.

 

[ResidentAlien]

I don't believe many would argue against water baptism. The question is usually, "Is salvation dependent on water baptism?" The answer is no. Believers should be baptised. This is not the same as must be baptised.

There are plenty of baptised people in hell. That's because they were formerly dry sinners and came up wet sinners. My own son was baptised, against my wishes, arranged by my ex wife. He is not saved.

There are many unbaptised in water believers in heaven. Many Christians are martyred before they can be baptised. Some are saved in prison and denied the opportunity to be baptised. Others are saved on their deathbed. Others still are simply ignorant about water baptism.

We are saved by grace through faith, not by works.

In Acts, believers couldn't wait to get baptized. They didn't dilly-dally around going: "Well, should I or shouldn't I?" They knew it was an integral part of the gospel and they just did it, right out of the gate.

 

[wattie]

John 3 mention of water is the main verses for water baptism as part of Salvation..but you can't take this on its own to form that belief in water baptism for salvation.

John 3:16, 3:36 and 6:40 are more primary verses about salvation that you compare with Nicodemus talking with Jesus about rebirth.

Salvation is believing in Jesus Christ for eternal salvation. Believing He is God, that He lived sinless, that He died and rose again. That by believing in Him, you have eternal life.

That's salvation..about Jesus. Him alone. Not your getting baptized or another behaviour about you.

John 3 being born of water and the Spirit..is either the water of the womb.. or the water of regeneration of the Holy Spirit...figurative washing.

Not water baptism.

 

[ResidentAlien]

What's being discussed here is not the salvation issue of baptism; that's a red herring. And it's not a question of should we do it. The Lord expects us to do it. And if He expects it of us, why do people dither and procrastinate like it's not a big deal? Only years of indoctrination into meaningless theology can erase this simple and obvious truth.

 

[Wansvic]

John 3 mention of water is the main verses for water baptism as part of Salvation..but you can't take this on its own to form that belief in water baptism for salvation.

John 3:16, 3:36 and 6:40 are more primary verses about salvation that you compare with Nicodemus talking with Jesus about rebirth.

Salvation is believing in Jesus Christ for eternal salvation. Believing He is God, that He lived sinless, that He died and rose again. That by believing in Him, you have eternal life.

That's salvation..about Jesus. Him alone. Not your getting baptized or another behaviour about you.

John 3 being born of water and the Spirit..is either the water of the womb.. or the water of regeneration of the Holy Spirit...figurative washing.

Not water baptism.

When taken in context, the reference to water in the third chapter of John is water baptism. Immediately after Jesus' discussion with Nicodemus He attends water baptisms. (verse 22) Also, every detailed NT conversion account reveals both obedience to water baptism in the name of Jesus, as well as receiving the Holy Spirit was involved. (Acts 2:4-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16) The accounts provide clear evidence for what Jesus meant when He said, "Unless a man is born of water and Spirit he cannot see or enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3:3-5)

 

[GWH]

What's being discussed here is not the salvation issue of baptism; that's a red herring. And it's not a question of should we do it. The Lord expects us to do it. And if He expects it of us, why do people dither and procrastinate like it's not a big deal? Only years of indoctrination into meaningless theology can erase this simple and obvious truth.

At the moment of conversion/repentance or accepting Christ Jesus as Lord (ACTS 20:21), Jesus’ Holy Spirit (HS) enters the convert’s heart (RV 3:20), plugging the person into the power of God, which moment is called “baptism by the Spirit” (1CR 12:13). Confusion may arise from the fact that in Ephesians 4:5 Paul says there is only one baptism, but elsewhere the NT seems to refer to two types of baptism: one by water and another by the Holy Spirit (MT 3:11, JN 1:26-33, ACTS 1:5). Any confusion is resolved by understanding that the two types of baptism are harmonized if baptism with water is viewed as a symbolic way of portraying baptism by the Holy Spirit. Most Bibles have a footnote for MK 16:9-20 saying that the passage is not a reliable or well-attested part of the NT canon, so it is problematic to cite v.16 as requiring water baptism for salvation along with drinking poison or handling asps as signs of being saved.

At the moment of repentance/acceptance, God’s Holy Spirit (HS) enters believers’ spiritual hearts (RV 3:20), uniting them with God as heavenly Father (RM 8:9) and identifying them with Christ’s worldwide/catholic body or church (CL 1:18). Paul refers to the comparable moment for Abraham as spiritual circumcision. This manifold event is also called spiritual birth or baptism (1CR 12:13). Instead of commanding water baptism for salvation, Paul said in one place (RM 10:9-10) that a convert should confess “with your mouth” in order to be saved, even though elsewhere (EPH 2:8-9) he taught that one is saved by faith.

Both outward confession and water baptism may be seen as works manifesting love for God that every new Believer will want to (but we cannot say “must”) perform as soon as possible following his/her decision to have saving faith (cf. MT 3:13-15, ACTS 2:38). Although Paul did not command baptism, he administered it (in ACTS 16:33, 18:8, 19:5 & 1CR 1:114-16) even though he said Christ did not send him to baptize but to preach the gospel (1CR 1:17). IOW, Paul’s focus was on preaching (spirit baptism) and he probably left the water baptizing to his assistants.

The outward evidence that someone is Spirit-filled (EPH 5:18) or walking with God is the manifestation of the fullness of Christ (EPH 3:19, 4:13) or fruit of the Spirit, which consists of such attributes as those listed in Galatians 5:22-23: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Jesus said “All men will know that you are my disciples if you love one another” (JN13:35, 1JN 4:7-21), because “love” sums up the moral character of God (1JN 4:7-8). He did NOT say "...if you are water baptized."

 

[Gideon300]

In Acts, believers couldn't wait to get baptized. They didn't dilly-dally around going: "Well, should I or shouldn't I?" They knew it was an integral part of the gospel and they just did it, right out of the gate.

So what? That was what was preached. When I was born again, it was not preached. I was born again anyway. For months I had neither the knowledge or the opportunity. I was surrounded by water, being on a warship and all.

When I discovered the truth, I was baptised. I've baptised someone myself. We encourage believers to be baptised. But we also know that baptism does not save anyone.

 

[ResidentAlien]

So what? That was what was preached. When I was born again, it was not preached. I was born again anyway. For months I had neither the knowledge or the opportunity. I was surrounded by water, being on a warship and all.

When I discovered the truth, I was baptised. I've baptised someone myself. We encourage believers to be baptised. But we also know that baptism does not save anyone.

The topic of the thread isn't whether baptism saves or not. You should read the original post again. I know just getting wet can't save anyone, but that's not the question of this thread.

This has been discussed before on here. That is: Is baptism integral to the gospel and should it be preached to new believers? Surprisingly (to me anyway), it's not being preached to new believers in many cases these days. Why is that? It certainly seemed to be an important component of the gospel in the beginning. Forget about whether baptism saves or not. The Lord expects us to preach and practice baptism. Isn't the Lord's expectation enough? Do you believe that simply obeying the Lord's command to baptize new believers is somehow teaching works?

 

[Suze]

Much has been said about the importance of water baptism in the ministry of John the Baptist but Jesus during His earthly ministry baptized even more through His own disciples.

John 3:22-26
After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He remained with them and baptized. Now John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there. And they came and were baptized. For John had not yet been thrown into prison.

Then there arose a dispute between some of John’s disciples and the Jews about purification. And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified—behold, He is baptizing, and all are coming to Him!”

It seems that the people were coming to Jesus for water baptism and He did not turn them away.

John 4:1-2
Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),

It seems clear that Jesus was a advocate for water baptism as much if not more than John the Baptist.


It appears that the ministries of John the Baptist and Jesus Christ were woven together by water baptism early on:

John 1:32-34
And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”

Regardless of what we may personally believe about the purpose of water baptism (sign or essential) Jesus certainly was a proponent.
Can we at least agree on this?

I haven't met too many people who agree with me on this but , I believe that the Old Testament is a foreshadow of the New . Taking this as a given , I go to 2nd Kings chapter 5 , read it all and pay special attention to the words in V 13 . I don't need any more evidence than that . Though I do take into account that sometimes some poor soul may not b able to b baptized for reasons beyond their control and I remember the Words , my grace is sufficient for thee and , all things r possible with God . For me , water baptism is an opportunity for us as believers to show our I obedience and submission to a request from our God , so why wouldn't I ?

 

[GWH]

Much has been said about the importance of water baptism in the ministry of John the Baptist but Jesus during His earthly ministry baptized even more through His own disciples.

John 3:22-26
After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He remained with them and baptized. Now John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there. And they came and were baptized. For John had not yet been thrown into prison.

Then there arose a dispute between some of John’s disciples and the Jews about purification. And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified—behold, He is baptizing, and all are coming to Him!”

It seems that the people were coming to Jesus for water baptism and He did not turn them away.

John 4:1-2
Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),

It seems clear that Jesus was a advocate for water baptism as much if not more than John the Baptist.


It appears that the ministries of John the Baptist and Jesus Christ were woven together by water baptism early on:

John 1:32-34
And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”

Regardless of what we may personally believe about the purpose of water baptism (sign or essential) Jesus certainly was a proponent.
Can we at least agree on this?

Only after agreeing that Jesus inspired Paul and harmonizing what both said.
(Life is rarely simple :^)

 

[studentoftheword]

This is important for people to understand and get ------

Know what Water Baptism does for us today -------do not let people tell you that Water Baptism is needed to gain your Salvation =====Water Baptism has a purpose today for sure ---it is done as a profession of our Faith in Christ -----that is it -----

AI

Water baptism is a widely recognized practice in Christianity,

serving as a public declaration and outward expression of an individual's faith in Jesus Christ and their commitment to following him.

 

[mailmandan]

John 3 mention of water is the main verses for water baptism as part of Salvation..but you can't take this on its own to form that belief in water baptism for salvation.

John 3:16, 3:36 and 6:40 are more primary verses about salvation that you compare with Nicodemus talking with Jesus about rebirth.

Salvation is believing in Jesus Christ for eternal salvation. Believing He is God, that He lived sinless, that He died and rose again. That by believing in Him, you have eternal life.

That's salvation..about Jesus. Him alone. Not your getting baptized or another behaviour about you.

John 3 being born of water and the Spirit..is either the water of the womb.. or the water of regeneration of the Holy Spirit...figurative washing.

Not water baptism.

Amen! In John 3:5, Jesus said born of water and the Spirit. He did not say born of baptism and the Spirit and He also did not say unless one is water baptized, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. In the very next chapter, Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14 and He connects living water with eternal life in John 4:14. Also, in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing.

If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again. So, to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.

Also "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)

 

[mailmandan]

Only after agreeing that Jesus inspired Paul and harmonizing what both said.
(Life is rarely simple :^)

Amen! In regard to John 3:22, by this time Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus is over with and He has moved on. John 3:22 - After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He was spending time with them and baptizing. Verse 22 is out of context with verse 5. What is still in context with verse 5 is verses 14-18.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[TrustandObey]

When I was born again, it was not preached. I was born again anyway.

I know this rubs people the wrong way but claims of personal salvation is not a valid argument.

Because you believe that you were saved without baptism is not evidence that it is not needed.

Scripture is evidence.

 

[hornetguy]

He is not saved.

I didn't realize that you had the authority to determine that.... I'm impressed....

 

[homwardbound]

Much has been said about the importance of water baptism in the ministry of John the Baptist but Jesus during His earthly ministry baptized even more through His own disciples.

John 3:22-26
After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He remained with them and baptized. Now John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there. And they came and were baptized. For John had not yet been thrown into prison.

Then there arose a dispute between some of John’s disciples and the Jews about purification. And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified—behold, He is baptizing, and all are coming to Him!”

It seems that the people were coming to Jesus for water baptism and He did not turn them away.

John 4:1-2
Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),

It seems clear that Jesus was a advocate for water baptism as much if not more than John the Baptist.


It appears that the ministries of John the Baptist and Jesus Christ were woven together by water baptism early on:

John 1:32-34
And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”

Regardless of what we may personally believe about the purpose of water baptism (sign or essential) Jesus certainly was a proponent.
Can we at least agree on this?

agreed it was to leading unto Spirit Baptism from Daddy, Father, Papa to us all to be born new in Son Jesus's risen Life for us all to love in the same mercy and truth given us by Son going to that cross willingly for us all, for me at least, thanks agreed

 

[Cameron143]

The topic of the thread isn't whether baptism saves or not. You should read the original post again. I know just getting wet can't save anyone, but that's not the question of this thread.

This has been discussed before on here. That is: Is baptism integral to the gospel and should it be preached to new believers? Surprisingly (to me anyway), it's not being preached to new believers in many cases these days. Why is that? It certainly seemed to be an important component of the gospel in the beginning. Forget about whether baptism saves or not. The Lord expects us to preach and practice baptism. Isn't the Lord's expectation enough? Do you believe that simply obeying the Lord's command to baptize new believers is somehow teaching works?

Peter didn't preach about baptism. He preached Christ and Him crucified. Where the gospel was effectual the question was asked...what shall we do? It is at this point that baptism is brought out.

Preaching should always be Christ and Him crucified.

 

[hornetguy]

When taken in context, the reference to water in the third chapter of John is water baptism. Immediately after Jesus' discussion with Nicodemus He attends water baptisms. (verse 22) Also, every detailed NT conversion account reveals both obedience to water baptism in the name of Jesus, as well as receiving the Holy Spirit was involved. (Acts 2:4-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16) The accounts provide clear evidence for what Jesus meant when He said, "Unless a man is born of water and Spirit he cannot see or enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3:3-5)

And, to add to that, if you read any of the apostolic fathers' writings on this subject, they all understood it to mean water baptism... this is from the very people that this teaching was given to. People of the first century... and THEY understood it as water baptism.... as it was meant.

It took a couple thousand years for us to get "smart" enough to decide that it meant something entirely different.