The book of Job, my favorite book.

[christophernyc]

Job accused God of being unjust and uncaring toward him. Job's trust/faith in God failed a few times causing him to speak unwiseky.

What is your opinion of the assessment of Job in the book of James? Job is held up as an example of patience in the midst of suffering until the Lord returns. The headline of Job's story is about his endurance and not losing faith.

Would you agree or disagree with the assessment of Job in the book of James?

 

[ZNP]

Fantastic question. Thank you. Referring to Elihu in that way is not some pejorative. After looking very closely at him, I see him tracking as an actual archetype of antichrist. That is my belief, and not some flagrant insult. I think it is dangerous to believe him, despite his blaring confidence and things that sound "right". In the end, when the actual antichrist is on earth, do you think he will announce to everyone, "Hey, I'm here. I'm the bad guy." Likely it will be the complete opposite.

As to the different statements of mine you referred to, I don't see them as goalposts being moved, but as all tied together. They are all avenues to really look at Elihu from different angles and figure him out. I think most everybody who reads the book can agree they are surprised by his appearance in chapter 32 and then have to wonder about him and figure him out. It seems to me that is part of the intent by the author to have Elihu written in this way.

But, to something more substantive. Compare 2 Thessalonians 2:1-11 (KJV) which describes the "man of sin" and compare him to Elihu. See what you think. Here are a few parts. It describes a man "showing himself that he is God" and "whose coming is after the working of satan with all power and signs and lying wonders." But in the end, it says the LORD shall consume this wicked man with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming.

To your question as to why God does not rebuke Elihu. Excellent question. Well, do you see a parallel here with the end of the story of Job and 2 Thessalonians? Isn't it interesting that after God shows up in the whirlwind, that Elihu is not heard from or mentioned again? Do you know that if you cross reference the word "whirlwind" the majority of times that they appear are when they come to destroy the wicked. Here's one example from Proverbs 10:25 25 "As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation."

You might say, Elihu has sown the wind (all his many words) and reaped the whirlwind.

I have not read a single word that Elihu said that would be analogous to the man of sin. By all means if you are going to make a case don't do it with your opinions, do it with what Elihu says and then compare him to other types of the Antichrist: Nimrod, Nebuchadnezzar, Adonijah, Haman, etc.

You don't build a doctrine on a single verse. So the verse about the whirlwind would be far more persuasive if you preceded it with four verses from Elihu which are clearly analogous to other types of the Antichrist.

 

[PaulThomson]

So would you say that satan was right in chapter 2 then? When satan says that Job will fail the second test (loss of health) do you believe he was right then? You agree with his claim?

No. Satan was wrong. He predicted -

Job 2:5
But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.

 

[PaulThomson]

What is your opinion of the assessment of Job in the book of James? Job is held up as an example of patience in the midst of suffering until the Lord returns. The headline of Job's story is about his endurance and not losing faith.

Would you agree or disagree with the assessment of Job in the book of James?

It would help if you post the verses you are using to support your claims. You may find you push the "Post reply" button less often, if you can see what you are citing as proof next to your claims.

Jas 5:11
Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

James is accurate. Job was very patient and God was merciful and tender toward Job, forgiving Job's faith flagging here and there.

 

[christophernyc]

I disagree, I can see a lot of agreement between Elihu and Jesus

Job 32:1 So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.

This is the same condemnation that God gives to Job when He asks wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

2 Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God.

God says the same thing.

3 Also against his three friends was his wrath kindled, because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job.

God also says the same thing. His wrath is to them because they did not speak right.

Job 33:12 Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that God is greater than man.

This is Elihu speaking, it is the lesson that Job is to learn. Job's mistake was walking according to his own opinion. Like I shared in the earlier post if Job had consecrated everything to the Lord then there would have been nothing that belonged to Job that Satan could have touched, and if his labor had been as a coworker of God building with gold, silver and precious stones rather than whatever was right in his own eyes it would have withstood the fire.

16 Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction, 17 That he may withdraw man from his purpose, and hide pride from man.

He also has hit upon the issue being Job's pride. No one can deny that when God speaks to Job He is hitting on his pride and humbling him.

Job 34:10 Therefore hearken unto me ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity. 11 For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways. 12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.

This is the truth and this is why typical exposition of Job is not right. They have God committing iniquity. They dress it up, but God does not do wickedly, He does not pervert judgment, and that means asking Satan to take a look at Job was not wicked but rather was just. If you don't understand why it was just you shouldn't be expounding on Job.

The lesson we must all learn is that only Jesus is worthy. If you think you can do some great work for the Lord on your own you are deceived and it will all come to naught.

Revelation 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. 4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. 5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Elihu says the same thing I said, that the problem with Job was he was self righteous, just like the Pharisee that Jesus talked about.

Job 35:2 Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's?

Now if this were wrong God would have said he didn't speak right, but God did not say that, so it is safe to assume that this is not wrong. Job was self righteous.

Job 36:7 He withdraweth not his eyes from the righteous: but with kings are they on the throne; yea, he doth establish them for ever, and they are exalted. 8 And if they be bound in fetters, and be holden in cords of affliction; 9 Then he sheweth them their work, and their transgressions that they have exceeded.

This is the key takeaway, instead of Job trying to claim he is righteous he should be searching to see where he transgressed and stepped over the line.

I don't see God "condemning" Job. I see God commending Job, however, two different times when He shows up though. Also, God *asks* Job if he will condemn Him (God), to which Job effectively answers no. If anyone wants the proof, this is it that Job did not fail the test. Satan claimed Job would curse God to His face, but guess what? When God shows up and Job faces Him, Job does not do any cursing of God whatsoever.

So that I'm tracking with you, which verse is it where God accuses Job of justifying himself rather than God?

You mentioned hitting on Job's pride. Where does it say that Job is proud? What are you referring to? Also, at this point of the story, Job is effectively on his death bed. Throughout his ordeal he keeps thinking he is on his way to die. Besides losing everything else in his life, he thinks he is headed very soon to the grave. So you believe that Job is full of pride in this moment?

If Job was self-righteous, as you claim, then why is this not included in all of the description about Job at the beginning of the story? Also, did you notice that God Himself says in chapter 2, "He still retains his integrity, even though you incited Me against him to ruin him without cause.” If Job was self-righteous, wouldn't God *have cause*? As it reads, God Himself says it was "without cause".

By the way, what is your reaction to the assessment of Job in the book of James in the NT? Amidst other righteous sufferers, Job is singled out by name and held up as an example of patience and endurance in keeping the faith. Do you agree or disagree with this assessment of Job in the book of James?

 

[christophernyc]

No. Satan was wrong. He predicted -

Job 2:5
But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.

And when God shows up and faces Job, he does not curse God. Right?

 

[christophernyc]

I have not read a single word that Elihu said that would be analogous to the man of sin. By all means if you are going to make a case don't do it with your opinions, do it with what Elihu says and then compare him to other types of the Antichrist: Nimrod, Nebuchadnezzar, Adonijah, Haman, etc.

You don't build a doctrine on a single verse. So the verse about the whirlwind would be far more persuasive if you preceded it with four verses from Elihu which are clearly analogous to other types of the Antichrist.

Here's an example for you. In Job 36:4 Elihu says that one who is "perfect in knowledge" is with them, referring to himself. Then in Job 37:16 Elihu refers to God as perfect in knowledge. So Elihu is equating himself with God here. Did you notice that? Does that sound right to you? Isn't it strange that even Jesus Christ Himself when He walked the earth "did not consider equality with God something to be grasped" as it states in Philippians 2. Do you support this claim of Elihu about himself?

 

[PaulThomson]

Respectfully, there is no "the thing" in the Hebrew. Noticed it's italicized, too, which means it's words added in addition to the original Hebrew.

Job 42:7 And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right (נְכוֹנָה NiKoWNaH a Niphal active participle feminine SINGULAR.) as my servant Job hath.

So, God does not say "for ye have not spoken of me right things (PLURAL), as you would like to pretend.

 

[ZNP]

Elihu

32:2 Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God.

This is not what would provoke the Antichrist to anger

Dan. 11:36 … He shall exalt himself above every god.
2 Thess. 2:4 … He shall exalt himself "above all that is called God."
2 Thess. 2:4 . He shall show himself that he is God.

The antichrist will justify himself rather than God. If you are justifying yourself rather than God you are exalting yourself above God, that is what the Antichrist will do.

3 Also against his three friends was his wrath kindled, because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job.

He is calling out these friends because this is precisely what Antichrist will do when he condemns anyone who will not worship him.

Dan. 11:36 … He shall do according to his will.

The Antichrist is like Hitler, he has no problem with summary execution without a trial or proof of guilt. Elihu does have a problem with this.

8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Elihu acknowledges that God is almighty. The antichrist does not do this.

1 John 2:22 … He shall deny both the Father and the Son.
Rev. 13:6 … He shall open his mouth in blasphemy against God.
Rev. 17:3 … He shall be full of names of blasphemy.

21 Let me not, I pray you, accept any man's person, neither let me give flattering titles unto man. 22 For I know not to give flattering titles; in so doing my maker would soon take me away.

God is not a respecter of man's person. Elihu is walking according to the word of God and giving God glory. The antichrist would not do this.

Dan. 11:36 … He shall do according to his will.
Isaiah 14:14 … He shall say in his heart, I will be like the Most High.
Dan. 8:25 … He shall stand up against the Prince of princes.
Dan. 11:36 … He shall exalt himself above every god.

33:7 Behold, my terror shall not make thee afraid, neither shall my hand be heavy upon thee.

Again, this is absolutely not like the Antichrist.

Isaiah 14:16 … He shall make the earth to tremble, and shall shake kingdoms.
Dan. 8:24 … His power shall be mighty. … He shall destroy wonderfully.
Rev. 13:15 … Whosoever will not worship the image of the beast shall be killed

12 Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that God is greater than man.

Once again, he is giving God glory, Antichrist will not do this.

Isaiah 14:14 … He shall say in his heart, I will be like the Most High.
Dan. 8:25 … He shall stand up against the Prince of princes.
Dan. 11:36 … He shall exalt himself above every god.
2 Thess. 2:4 … He shall exalt himself "above all that is called God."

28 He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light. 29 Lo, all these things worketh God oftentimes with man, 30 To bring back his soul from the pit, to be enlightened with the light of the living.

Antichrist is trying to drag men into the pit and keep them from being saved. Elihu is pointing out that all things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to purpose.

34:9 For he hath said, It profiteth a man nothing that he should delight himself with God.

Elihu says Job said this and Job does not deny it.

10 Therefore hearken unto me ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity. 11 For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways.

This is what Jesus said, as you have done it will be done to you, with what measure you measure it will be measured to you.

 

[ZNP]

Here's an example for you. In Job 36:4 Elihu says that one who is "perfect in knowledge" is with them, referring to himself. Then in Job 37:16 Elihu refers to God as perfect in knowledge. So Elihu is equating himself with God here. Did you notice that? Does that sound right to you? Isn't it strange that even Jesus Christ Himself when He walked the earth "did not consider equality with God something to be grasped" as it states in Philippians 2. Do you support this claim of Elihu about himself?

See Post #429. I could have written more but this is conclusive. Elihu is most definitely not a type of the Antichrist. No basis at all to say that.

 

[christophernyc]

It would help if you post the verses you are using to support your claims. You may find you push the "Post reply" button less often, if you can see what you are citing as proof next to your claims.

Jas 5:11
Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

James is accurate. Job was very patient and God was merciful and tender toward Job, forgiving Job's faith flagging here and there.

Sure, I did not include all the text I had planned in order to keep the post short. But here is the more full thought from James:

7Be patient, then, brothers, until the Lord’s coming. See how the farmer awaits the precious fruit of the soil—how patient he is for the fall and spring rains.a 8You, too, be patient and strengthen your hearts, because the Lord’s coming is near. 9Do not complain about one another, brothers, so that you will not be judged. Look, the Judge is standing at the door!

10Brothers, as an example of patience in affliction, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. 11See how blessed we consider those who have persevered. You have heard of Job’s perseverance and have seen the outcome from the Lord. The Lord is full of compassion and mercy.

Job is mentioned with the prophets, and James seems to be referring to Job as one of them. The message is about keeping the faith during suffering. I don't see James talking about God having to show up and correct Job's pride, as many here seem to believe.

Also, what is your reaction to Job 42:11? "Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold."

 

[ZNP]

I don't see God "condemning" Job. I see God commending Job, however, two different times when He shows up though. Also, God *asks* Job if he will condemn Him (God), to which Job effectively answers no. If anyone wants the proof, this is it that Job did not fail the test. Satan claimed Job would curse God to His face, but guess what? When God shows up and Job faces Him, Job does not do any cursing of God whatsoever.

So that I'm tracking with you, which verse is it where God accuses Job of justifying himself rather than God?

You mentioned hitting on Job's pride. Where does it say that Job is proud? What are you referring to? Also, at this point of the story, Job is effectively on his death bed. Throughout his ordeal he keeps thinking he is on his way to die. Besides losing everything else in his life, he thinks he is headed very soon to the grave. So you believe that Job is full of pride in this moment?

If Job was self-righteous, as you claim, then why is this not included in all of the description about Job at the beginning of the story? Also, did you notice that God Himself says in chapter 2, "He still retains his integrity, even though you incited Me against him to ruin him without cause.” If Job was self-righteous, wouldn't God *have cause*? As it reads, God Himself says it was "without cause".

By the way, what is your reaction to the assessment of Job in the book of James in the NT? Amidst other righteous sufferers, Job is singled out by name and held up as an example of patience and endurance in keeping the faith. Do you agree or disagree with this assessment of Job in the book of James?

I have answered all these questions, now we are simply going around in circles.

I will not debate. Pray about this and ask the Lord to give you light and leading.

 

[PaulThomson]

Sure, I did not include all the text I had planned in order to keep the post short. But here is the more full thought from James:

7Be patient, then, brothers, until the Lord’s coming. See how the farmer awaits the precious fruit of the soil—how patient he is for the fall and spring rains.a 8You, too, be patient and strengthen your hearts, because the Lord’s coming is near. 9Do not complain about one another, brothers, so that you will not be judged. Look, the Judge is standing at the door!

10Brothers, as an example of patience in affliction, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. 11See how blessed we consider those who have persevered. You have heard of Job’s perseverance and have seen the outcome from the Lord. The Lord is full of compassion and mercy.

Job is mentioned with the prophets, and James seems to be referring to Job as one of them. The message is about keeping the faith during suffering. I don't see James talking about God having to show up and correct Job's pride, as many here seem to believe.

Also, what is your reaction to Job 42:11? "Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold."

Prophets were not perfect. Most stumbled in faith at times.
I understand you don't see what others might see. That's why we need to listen to each other's perspectives. But we need to keep in mind that what we or others think we see may sometimes be an optical illusion.

 

[PaulThomson]

And when God shows up and faces Job, he does not curse God. Right?

Right. Satan was wrong.

 

[christophernyc]

Job 42:7 And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right (נְכוֹנָה NiKoWNaH a Niphal active participle feminine SINGULAR.) as my servant Job hath.

So, God does not say "for ye have not spoken of me right things (PLURAL), as you would like to pretend.

In God's statement he is comparing the words of Job to the words of his friends. We can agree to disagree again. Job speaks at the end, but we do not read that the friends say anything at the end. So it does not make sense to compare Job's words to his friends who are not speaking at that time. It's obvious God is comparing the conversation happening from chapter 4-31.

Also, maybe I missed it, but what was your reaction to this question / observation:

7. In Job 36:4 Elihu says that one who is "perfect in knowledge" is with them, referring to himself. Then in Job 37:16 Elihu refers to God as perfect in knowledge. So Elihu is equating himself with God here. Did you notice that? Does that sound right to you? Isn't it strange that even Jesus Christ Himself when He walked the earth "did not consider equality with God something to be grasped" as it states in Philippians 2. Do you support this claim of Elihu about himself?

 

[christophernyc]

Elihu

32:2 Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God.

This is not what would provoke the Antichrist to anger

Dan. 11:36 … He shall exalt himself above every god.
2 Thess. 2:4 … He shall exalt himself "above all that is called God."
2 Thess. 2:4 . He shall show himself that he is God.

The antichrist will justify himself rather than God. If you are justifying yourself rather than God you are exalting yourself above God, that is what the Antichrist will do.

3 Also against his three friends was his wrath kindled, because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job.

He is calling out these friends because this is precisely what Antichrist will do when he condemns anyone who will not worship him.

Dan. 11:36 … He shall do according to his will.

The Antichrist is like Hitler, he has no problem with summary execution without a trial or proof of guilt. Elihu does have a problem with this.

8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Elihu acknowledges that God is almighty. The antichrist does not do this.

1 John 2:22 … He shall deny both the Father and the Son.
Rev. 13:6 … He shall open his mouth in blasphemy against God.
Rev. 17:3 … He shall be full of names of blasphemy.

21 Let me not, I pray you, accept any man's person, neither let me give flattering titles unto man. 22 For I know not to give flattering titles; in so doing my maker would soon take me away.

God is not a respecter of man's person. Elihu is walking according to the word of God and giving God glory. The antichrist would not do this.

Dan. 11:36 … He shall do according to his will.
Isaiah 14:14 … He shall say in his heart, I will be like the Most High.
Dan. 8:25 … He shall stand up against the Prince of princes.
Dan. 11:36 … He shall exalt himself above every god.

33:7 Behold, my terror shall not make thee afraid, neither shall my hand be heavy upon thee.

Again, this is absolutely not like the Antichrist.

Isaiah 14:16 … He shall make the earth to tremble, and shall shake kingdoms.
Dan. 8:24 … His power shall be mighty. … He shall destroy wonderfully.
Rev. 13:15 … Whosoever will not worship the image of the beast shall be killed

12 Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that God is greater than man.

Once again, he is giving God glory, Antichrist will not do this.

Isaiah 14:14 … He shall say in his heart, I will be like the Most High.
Dan. 8:25 … He shall stand up against the Prince of princes.
Dan. 11:36 … He shall exalt himself above every god.
2 Thess. 2:4 … He shall exalt himself "above all that is called God."

28 He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light. 29 Lo, all these things worketh God oftentimes with man, 30 To bring back his soul from the pit, to be enlightened with the light of the living.

Antichrist is trying to drag men into the pit and keep them from being saved. Elihu is pointing out that all things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to purpose.

34:9 For he hath said, It profiteth a man nothing that he should delight himself with God.

Elihu says Job said this and Job does not deny it.

10 Therefore hearken unto me ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity. 11 For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways.

This is what Jesus said, as you have done it will be done to you, with what measure you measure it will be measured to you.

Do you acknowledge that Elihu equates himself with God? Here is what was said and asked:

7. In Job 36:4 Elihu says that one who is "perfect in knowledge" is with them, referring to himself. Then in Job 37:16 Elihu refers to God as perfect in knowledge. So Elihu is equating himself with God here. Did you notice that? Does that sound right to you? Isn't it strange that even Jesus Christ Himself when He walked the earth "did not consider equality with God something to be grasped" as it states in Philippians 2. Do you support this claim of Elihu about himself?

 

[PaulThomson]

In God's statement he is comparing the words of Job to the words of his friends. We can agree to disagree again. Job speaks at the end, but we do not read that the friends say anything at the end. So it does not make sense to compare Job's words to his friends who are not speaking at that time. It's obvious God is comparing the conversation happening from chapter 4-31.

Also, maybe I missed it, but what was your reaction to this question / observation:

7. In Job 36:4 Elihu says that one who is "perfect in knowledge" is with them, referring to himself. Then in Job 37:16 Elihu refers to God as perfect in knowledge. So Elihu is equating himself with God here. Did you notice that? Does that sound right to you? Isn't it strange that even Jesus Christ Himself when He walked the earth "did not consider equality with God something to be grasped" as it states in Philippians 2. Do you support this claim of Elihu about himself?

H8549 ThaMiYM adjective perfect, blameless.

Used of Noah
Gen 6:9
These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect H8549 in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Of sacrificed sheep
Lev 1:10
And if his offering be of the flocks, namely, of the sheep, or of the goats, for a burnt sacrifice; he shall bring it a male without blemish. H8549

Of the way a person lives and a man's heart
Psa 101:2
I will behave myself wisely in a perfect H8549 way. O when wilt thou come unto me? I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.

Is the psalmist making himself equal with God because God behaves wisely in a perfect way, and this man is claiming to be able to do the same; and God has a perfect heart, but the psalmist is claiming to be able to have the same?

Maybe Elihu was not claiming to have complete and perfect knowledge of all things, as God does; but was trusting that the Holy Spirit moving him was giving Him flawless words for this particular encounter with Job.

 

[ZNP]

Job 42:14 And he called the name of the first, Jemima; and the name of the second, Kezia; and the name of the third, Kerenhappuch.

Every book in the Bible has words unique to that book, those words reveal the unique agenda or burden of that book. These three names of these three daughters are unique to the book of Job. They are the conclusion of this book and so they reveal the unique conclusion of the book of Job. Jemima means day by day. That is our walk with the Lord, it isn't once for all. That is what I hate about the OSAS doctrine, it makes it seem like the Christian life is once for all. You pray, you get saved, that is it. That is not it. The Christian life is a fellowship with the Lord, day by day. The second name Kezia means fragrance. There is a fragrance, a sweet savor among those who are saved and walking with the Lord day by day. If you have not taken a shower, then you also have a fragrance but it isn't sweet. When we spend time in the word we get washed. But there are many Christians who have a root of bitterness growing, if you don't deal with that then you will not have a sweet savor it will be bitter. To be joyful and forgiving is a sweet savor. Finally, the last name, Kerenhappuch, means horn of antimony or horn of paint. The horn of an animal is its power and authority. Predators do not have horns, only animals that are prey. The book of Job describes Job as prey and Satan as the predator. What he was missing was the horn. Paint is what seals the wood and protects it from decay. Yes, when we received the Lord we were saved, we were sealed with the Holy Spirit. But at that point you had no "horn of sealing". When I was first saved I was afraid to share my testimony because I did not know the word of God and I was like a new born in the jungle. I knew I could be devoured and destroyed by those who did know more than me. But if you spend each day with the Lord in fellowship, dealing with offences and sins you will grow and mature and with that sweet fragrance you will also get a horn from the sealing that will be able to defend the herd from the wolves and roaring lions seeking to devour us the way Satan devoured Job.

 

[christophernyc]

H8549 ThaMiYM adjective perfect, blameless.

Used of Noah
Gen 6:9
These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect H8549 in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Of sacrificed sheep
Lev 1:10
And if his offering be of the flocks, namely, of the sheep, or of the goats, for a burnt sacrifice; he shall bring it a male without blemish. H8549

Of the way a person lives and a man's heart
Psa 101:2
I will behave myself wisely in a perfect H8549 way. O when wilt thou come unto me? I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.

Is the psalmist making himself equal with God because God behaves wisely in a perfect way, and this man is claiming to be able to do the same; and God has a perfect heart, but the psalmist is claiming to be able to have the same?

Maybe Elihu was not claiming to have complete and perfect knowledge of all things, as God does; but was trusting that the Holy Spirit moving him was giving Him flawless words for this particular encounter with Job.

So you believe Elihu's claim that he *is* perfect in knowledge? Yes? Or no?

What the psalmist is saying is not exactly the same as Elihu's claim. The psalmist is expressing his will, his desire, what they want and intend to do. They are making a declaration much like the Israelites when God gave them his commandments with Moses. God would ask them if they will obey his commands, and His people would declare "We will!" But aspiring to something is not the same as having already attained that something.

Now compare that to Elihu's claim here. He blatantly refers to himself as one who *is* perfect in knowledge. He has arrived. He is there, at the top, ready to speak down to Job and his friends. Elihu is speaking of himself in an exalted manner. This is a real problem for the lovers of Elihu. Not even Jesus acted this way, the only true and righteous mediator.

 

[christophernyc]

Right. Satan was wrong.

So you agree that Job succeeded? The entire story is predicated on the assertion by satan that Job will curse God if all these bad things happen to him. That is the premise. In the end, you say satan is wrong, so Job passed this test? Right?