Can you be baptized by an unbelieving person?
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Thanks LeeLoving for your question about baptism. The word baptize means to be washed. You can look that up in a concordance. However, it is not talking about physical washing, like by physical water. It means to be washed free from the stain of sin. When we put our trust in Jesus, when we believe on him for what he did for us (in taking away the penalty of of sin), then we are automatically washed. In other words, we are baptised. That is why the Bible says, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. " The ceremony that some churches call baptism will not affect a person being saved one way or the other, no matter who dunks you in physical water, a believer or someone else. He that believes on Jesus and is washed free from the penalty of sin will be saved.
Now, let's read the verse you asked about: "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. " The water here means the Word of God. You can read about that in Ephesians 5:26, "That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word ". A person is saved by Jesus - they believe his word. Further, God gives them the spirit to believe his word. When you believe Jesus' word, it is because God has given you his spirit to believe. "But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. "
Now, let's read the verse you asked about: "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. " The water here means the Word of God. You can read about that in Ephesians 5:26, "That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word ". A person is saved by Jesus - they believe his word. Further, God gives them the spirit to believe his word. When you believe Jesus' word, it is because God has given you his spirit to believe. "But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. "
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I disagree with a lot of what you stated....
First off, the word baptize is a direct transliteration of the Greek word "baptizo".... which means "to immerse".. in other words, submerge. it was also used occasionally when discussing making pickles.... immersing the cucumber into the liquid to pickle it. But it means to immerse... not to "wash".
If you read the word of God with the understanding of who it was written to, you should know that ANYBODY in the first century knew what baptism was... it was immersion in water.
When Peter told the crowd at Pentecost, where Jesus' church was founded, to repent and be baptized, they knew EXACTLY what Peter meant. There simply was no other definition or description for it. They were also told that in doing so, they would receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
When the eunuch that Philip taught came upon a body of water, he said "what prevents me from being baptized?" He didn't ask Philip to go ahead and baptize him with the Spirit... he knew he needed water baptism.
Cornelius' family had not been water baptized because the Jews didn't think salvation was for them, being Gentiles. God allowed the Spirit to enter them, proving to the Jewish Christians that the Gentiles were approved by God. Then Peter told them to be baptized in the name of Jesus... which was immersion in water.
When Paul was visited by Ananias, and regained his sight, the FIRST thing he did was to be baptized... immersed in water.
Also, read what the first century apostolic fathers understood about the importance of water baptism. Being born of the water and the Spirit was clearly understood to be talking of baptism and the Spirit. Which, is EXACTLY what Peter told the crowd at Pentecost.
When the apostles taught about being baptized with the Spirit, they were simply describing how we as believers are immersed into the Spirit... we are filled with the Spirit.... and how did Peter say we would "get" the Spirit? Repent and be baptized, and we will receive the gift of the Spirit...
Not only was Jesus baptized himself, but he also baptized others. The apostles baptized others. Jesus' last command to his followers was to go and make disciples of all nations.... baptizing them.... it is that important.
First off, the word baptize is a direct transliteration of the Greek word "baptizo".... which means "to immerse".. in other words, submerge. it was also used occasionally when discussing making pickles.... immersing the cucumber into the liquid to pickle it. But it means to immerse... not to "wash".
If you read the word of God with the understanding of who it was written to, you should know that ANYBODY in the first century knew what baptism was... it was immersion in water.
When Peter told the crowd at Pentecost, where Jesus' church was founded, to repent and be baptized, they knew EXACTLY what Peter meant. There simply was no other definition or description for it. They were also told that in doing so, they would receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
When the eunuch that Philip taught came upon a body of water, he said "what prevents me from being baptized?" He didn't ask Philip to go ahead and baptize him with the Spirit... he knew he needed water baptism.
Cornelius' family had not been water baptized because the Jews didn't think salvation was for them, being Gentiles. God allowed the Spirit to enter them, proving to the Jewish Christians that the Gentiles were approved by God. Then Peter told them to be baptized in the name of Jesus... which was immersion in water.
When Paul was visited by Ananias, and regained his sight, the FIRST thing he did was to be baptized... immersed in water.
Also, read what the first century apostolic fathers understood about the importance of water baptism. Being born of the water and the Spirit was clearly understood to be talking of baptism and the Spirit. Which, is EXACTLY what Peter told the crowd at Pentecost.
When the apostles taught about being baptized with the Spirit, they were simply describing how we as believers are immersed into the Spirit... we are filled with the Spirit.... and how did Peter say we would "get" the Spirit? Repent and be baptized, and we will receive the gift of the Spirit...
Not only was Jesus baptized himself, but he also baptized others. The apostles baptized others. Jesus' last command to his followers was to go and make disciples of all nations.... baptizing them.... it is that important.
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Thanks hornetguy for your response. Here is what Strong's Concordance says baptizo means:
What do you think the Bible means when it says: "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. "
- to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
- to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
- to overwhelm
What do you think the Bible means when it says: "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. "
Not intentionally... I was merely stating the accurate definition of the word. Many people think that sprinkling is "baptism", when the word itself eliminates that as a valid action.
Strong's Lexicon
baptizó: To baptize, to immerse, to dip
Original Word: βαπτίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: baptizó
Pronunciation: bap-TID-zo
Phonetic Spelling: (bap-tid'-zo)
Definition: To baptize, to immerse, to dip
Meaning: lit: I dip, submerge, but specifically of ceremonial dipping; I baptize.
Word Origin: Derived from βάπτω (baptō), meaning "to dip" or "to immerse."
Corresponding Greek / Hebrew Entries: While there is no direct Hebrew equivalent for "baptizó," the concept of ritual washing can be related to Hebrew terms such as טָבַל (tabal, Strong's H2881), meaning "to dip" or "to immerse."
Usage: The term "baptizó" primarily means to immerse or submerge in water. In the New Testament, it is used to describe the Christian rite of baptism, symbolizing purification, repentance, and the believer's identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
I believe the writer was telling believers that while they used to be "lost" , and sinners as listed previously, they had been washed clean in the waters of baptism in the name of Jesus, and were immersed in the Spirit... which had been promised.
Strong's Lexicon
baptizó: To baptize, to immerse, to dip
Original Word: βαπτίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: baptizó
Pronunciation: bap-TID-zo
Phonetic Spelling: (bap-tid'-zo)
Definition: To baptize, to immerse, to dip
Meaning: lit: I dip, submerge, but specifically of ceremonial dipping; I baptize.
Word Origin: Derived from βάπτω (baptō), meaning "to dip" or "to immerse."
Corresponding Greek / Hebrew Entries: While there is no direct Hebrew equivalent for "baptizó," the concept of ritual washing can be related to Hebrew terms such as טָבַל (tabal, Strong's H2881), meaning "to dip" or "to immerse."
Usage: The term "baptizó" primarily means to immerse or submerge in water. In the New Testament, it is used to describe the Christian rite of baptism, symbolizing purification, repentance, and the believer's identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
I believe the writer was telling believers that while they used to be "lost" , and sinners as listed previously, they had been washed clean in the waters of baptism in the name of Jesus, and were immersed in the Spirit... which had been promised.
Here's something else. An unbeliever would not believe in baptism.
The one thing missing......Faith alone in Christ alone.
We would all do well to study the Jews and Mikvah. This is why we see water baptism in the beginning of the church and later phased out INTO baptism of The Spirit. Water baptism had a specific meaning and purpose for the Jews.......and it pointed to the baptism of the Spirit for the Church. Getting dunked in a tank is an outward expression of an internal reality......SAVED.
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Thanks hornetguy for your response. It may be that the waters of baptism for you means the physical waters. I consider the following verse to show that baptism is not about the physical water or dirt: "
"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: "
Another word used for Christians in the New Testament is clean: "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. " Notice that it doesn't say we are clean because of the physical washing of physical water. We are clean in the sense that we have been spoken to by Jesus. As soon as we believe his word, we are clean from the stain of sin, forgiven. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. " Notice that such a person did not need to go through a ceremony of dipping in physical water.
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"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: "
Another word used for Christians in the New Testament is clean: "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. " Notice that it doesn't say we are clean because of the physical washing of physical water. We are clean in the sense that we have been spoken to by Jesus. As soon as we believe his word, we are clean from the stain of sin, forgiven. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. " Notice that such a person did not need to go through a ceremony of dipping in physical water.
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Not just me...
Physical immersion in water has been the baptism of the church since Pentecost. Jesus' command did not get superseded, nor did the practice of the apostles, and all believers after that for a great number of years. It took a bunch of generations for man's "knowledge" to substitute "believing" for what the church and all it's members knew was true...that we are added to the church of Jesus Christ when we accept the free gift of salvation and are baptized for the forgiveness of our sins.... just as Peter taught... what Jesus and the apostles taught and practiced.
Physical immersion in water has been the baptism of the church since Pentecost. Jesus' command did not get superseded, nor did the practice of the apostles, and all believers after that for a great number of years. It took a bunch of generations for man's "knowledge" to substitute "believing" for what the church and all it's members knew was true...that we are added to the church of Jesus Christ when we accept the free gift of salvation and are baptized for the forgiveness of our sins.... just as Peter taught... what Jesus and the apostles taught and practiced.
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Thanks hornetguy. But you have to interpret Jesus' command correctly. You believe the command to be baptized means to be dunked in physical water. I believe the correct meaning of the command is to be washed free from the stain of sin. I believe physical water doesn't wash you free from the stain of sin. You have stated that you think that my knowledge is "man's knowledge" rather than God's. Interestingly, I think you have substituted man's knowledge for God's.
Simple. The Jewish ritual of Mikva. What was in view is an outward expression of an internal reality. After circumcision, the person was immersed in water and could then be called an Israelite. The Lord Jesus Christ didn't need to be dunked to become the Messiah.
It was a purification ritual. Women did it/do it after their period. Men were baptized before entering the Holy temple. Nothing unclean could enter the Temple.
Baptism was and is a Jewish tradition. And they knew the significance.......And Baptism never saved one Jew. They still practice baptism. Are they all saved because of it?
It was a purification ritual. Women did it/do it after their period. Men were baptized before entering the Holy temple. Nothing unclean could enter the Temple.
Baptism was and is a Jewish tradition. And they knew the significance.......And Baptism never saved one Jew. They still practice baptism. Are they all saved because of it?
Thanks for this.... I agree with this, but the way we are washed free from sin is clearly stated by Peter...
38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.”
The notion that "baptism" is only a spiritual thing is a man-made error... it takes water baptism for the forgiveness of sins to connect us with the Holy Spirit... and we are immersed in the Spirit at that point. Otherwise, all the believers mentioned in the scriptures got it wrong, and I don't believe they did.
And again, thanks for this thoughtful discussion...
38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.”
The notion that "baptism" is only a spiritual thing is a man-made error... it takes water baptism for the forgiveness of sins to connect us with the Holy Spirit... and we are immersed in the Spirit at that point. Otherwise, all the believers mentioned in the scriptures got it wrong, and I don't believe they did.
And again, thanks for this thoughtful discussion...
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John's baptism had nothing to do with the Jewish Mikva.... that is simply a Jewish practice of ceremonial washing... John's baptism was the first mention of "baptism" as an appeal for forgiveness...
"With John’s baptism, a person repented of sin and was therefore ready to place his faith in Jesus Christ. John’s baptism foreshadowed what Jesus would accomplish, much as the Old Testament sacrificial system did."
"With John’s baptism, a person repented of sin and was therefore ready to place his faith in Jesus Christ. John’s baptism foreshadowed what Jesus would accomplish, much as the Old Testament sacrificial system did."
