ARE YOU PRE-TRIB, MID-TRIB, PRE-WRATH, OR POST-TRIB?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Mar 2, 2025
36
10
8
#1
Just curious. I used to be pre-trib until I studied Scriptures at a deeper level. It's obvious to me that all the Scriptures on the rapture and God's Wrath topic support a pre-wrath rapture, because 1) Jesus promises us in many Scriptures that we are saved from His wrath to come (John 3:36, Romans 5:9, Ephesians 2:1-10, Ephesians 5:6, 1 Thes 1:10, and many others), and 2) those who are witnessing the beginning of God's wrath say so in Rev 6:16-17.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
20,316
3,083
113
#2
Just curious. I used to be pre-trib until I studied Scriptures at a deeper level. It's obvious to me that all the Scriptures on the rapture and God's Wrath topic support a pre-wrath rapture, because 1) Jesus promises us in many Scriptures that we are saved from His wrath to come (John 3:36, Romans 5:9, Ephesians 2:1-10, Ephesians 5:6, 1 Thes 1:10, and many others), and 2) those who are witnessing the beginning of God's wrath say so in Rev 6:16-17.
IWell an argument could be made for any stance on it but I personally don't have any particular stance on it though not a post tribber I think either a pre trib or pre wrath is more liekly. yet still I am willing to learn could you post the scriptures you mentioned I would like to get a btter understanding of how you came to your conclusion
 
Aug 3, 2018
11,005
2,124
113
#3
Pre-trib.:)

(and I've posted in many past threads for several years, here, my biblical reasons for believing this, so won't go into all that in this post)


... which could also be called...

--Pre-70th-Week;

--Pre-DOTL (when "the DOTL" and "IN THAT DAY" are used in the SAME contexts, they are referring to the SAME time-period... and Paul does so in 2Th1 and 2Th2:2)--the DOTL encompassing all three: the 7-yr Trib unfolding judgments upon the earth; His Second Coming to the earth; and the entire earthly MK age;

--Pre-Seals (which are "the beginning of birth PANGS"... so "pre-birth-PANGS"; the first one Jesus listed, in Matt24:4 / Mk13:5, "[take heed lest] A CERTAIN ONE [G5100 - tis] *deceive* you..." (i.e. the future "antichrist"... "FOR many shall come..." throughout history, but Jesus is pointing them to "A CERTAIN ONE [G5100 - tis]"--i.e. Seal #1, the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:1-3 Paul also speaks [using the SINGULAR form of that same word] regarding the ARRIVAL of "the DOTL" time-period... and repeats this (SAME SEQUENCE MATTER) in his 2nd epistle to the Thessalonians, chpt 2, 3x]);

.... and probably others I can't think of right now, lol



--oh yeah, "Pre-'IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]' " time period (per Rev1:1 [1:19c / 4:1]!)--SEE ALSO Luke 18:8 "AVENGE IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (corresponding with other passages also... like 2Th1:8 and context...)





Welcome to CC. I see you are fairly new here. Hope to see you around the boards. :)
 
Jun 30, 2015
26,103
14,089
113
#4
Just curious. I used to be pre-trib until I studied Scriptures at a deeper level. It's obvious to me that all the Scriptures on the rapture and God's Wrath topic support a pre-wrath rapture, because 1) Jesus promises us in many Scriptures that we are saved from His wrath to come (John 3:36, Romans 5:9, Ephesians 2:1-10, Ephesians 5:6, 1 Thes 1:10, and many others), and 2) those who are witnessing the beginning of God's wrath say so in Rev 6:16-17.
Is your list intended to cover all possible views?
 
Oct 24, 2012
17,358
714
113
#6
Just curious. I used to be pre-trib until I studied Scriptures at a deeper level. It's obvious to me that all the Scriptures on the rapture and God's Wrath topic support a pre-wrath rapture, because 1) Jesus promises us in many Scriptures that we are saved from His wrath to come (John 3:36, Romans 5:9, Ephesians 2:1-10, Ephesians 5:6, 1 Thes 1:10, and many others), and 2) those who are witnessing the beginning of God's wrath say so in Rev 6:16-17.
here is what I see, as soon as I m dead physically, I am then present with Father and Son as won for me
yet while here presently, Daddy, PaPa, Father are present with me
1 Thessalonians 5:10
he died for us so that we can live with him forever, whether we are dead or alive at the time of his return.
Romans 14:8
For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we livetherefore, or die, we are the Lord’s.

rapture or no rapture, God continues to love us all y'all
 
Mar 2, 2025
36
10
8
#9
here is what I see, as soon as I m dead physically, I am then present with Father and Son as won for me
yet while here presently, Daddy, PaPa, Father are present with me
1 Thessalonians 5:10
he died for us so that we can live with him forever, whether we are dead or alive at the time of his return.
Romans 14:8
For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we livetherefore, or die, we are the Lord’s.

rapture or no rapture, God continues to love us all y'all
Amen! I agree.
 
Mar 2, 2025
36
10
8
#10
Is your list intended to cover all possible views?
All views can be supported by selected portions of the Scriptures; however, I believe that there is only one view that is supported by ALL the Scriptures on this topic. For example, the most popular view is Pre-Trib because Pre-Tribbers view the start of the seven-year Tribulation period (opening of the first seal) as the wrath of God, which it is not. The first three-and-a-half years of the Tribulation Period includes the opening of the first seal through the opening of the fifth seal. The Believers are raptured/resurrected (per Chapter 7 and 14) just prior to the opening of the sixth seal as witnessed by those who are left behind per Rev 6:16-17. This is my view based on my many years of study on Revelation; however, I would love to be raptured before the first seal is opened, but I would be fooling myself to believe this after everything I've learned.
 

Hakawaka

Well-known member
Jul 1, 2021
446
258
63
#11
Just curious. I used to be pre-trib until I studied Scriptures at a deeper level. It's obvious to me that all the Scriptures on the rapture and God's Wrath topic support a pre-wrath rapture, because 1) Jesus promises us in many Scriptures that we are saved from His wrath to come (John 3:36, Romans 5:9, Ephesians 2:1-10, Ephesians 5:6, 1 Thes 1:10, and many others), and 2) those who are witnessing the beginning of God's wrath say so in Rev 6:16-17.
I think the rapture occurs at the 7th trumpet. So whatever that is.
 
Sep 2, 2020
15,152
6,109
113
#12
Just curious. I used to be pre-trib until I studied Scriptures at a deeper level. It's obvious to me that all the Scriptures on the rapture and God's Wrath topic support a pre-wrath rapture, because 1) Jesus promises us in many Scriptures that we are saved from His wrath to come (John 3:36, Romans 5:9, Ephesians 2:1-10, Ephesians 5:6, 1 Thes 1:10, and many others), and 2) those who are witnessing the beginning of God's wrath say so in Rev 6:16-17.
“But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:24, 26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; the field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; the enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world;

and the reapers are the angels.

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:37-43‬ ‭

I’ve always wondered what scriptures suggest a pre tribulation rapture no one ever seems to have that answer there are many explaining a post tribulation but pre final wrath “ rapture “ but I’ve never honestly saw any explaining a pre tribulation rapture
 
Mar 2, 2025
36
10
8
#13
Pre-trib.:)

(and I've posted in many past threads for several years, here, my biblical reasons for believing this, so won't go into all that in this post)


... which could also be called...

--Pre-70th-Week;

--Pre-DOTL (when "the DOTL" and "IN THAT DAY" are used in the SAME contexts, they are referring to the SAME time-period... and Paul does so in 2Th1 and 2Th2:2)--the DOTL encompassing all three: the 7-yr Trib unfolding judgments upon the earth; His Second Coming to the earth; and the entire earthly MK age;

--Pre-Seals (which are "the beginning of birth PANGS"... so "pre-birth-PANGS"; the first one Jesus listed, in Matt24:4 / Mk13:5, "[take heed lest] A CERTAIN ONE [G5100 - tis] *deceive* you..." (i.e. the future "antichrist"... "FOR many shall come..." throughout history, but Jesus is pointing them to "A CERTAIN ONE [G5100 - tis]"--i.e. Seal #1, the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:1-3 Paul also speaks [using the SINGULAR form of that same word] regarding the ARRIVAL of "the DOTL" time-period... and repeats this (SAME SEQUENCE MATTER) in his 2nd epistle to the Thessalonians, chpt 2, 3x]);

.... and probably others I can't think of right now, lol



--oh yeah, "Pre-'IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]' " time period (per Rev1:1 [1:19c / 4:1]!)--SEE ALSO Luke 18:8 "AVENGE IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (corresponding with other passages also... like 2Th1:8 and context...)





Welcome to CC. I see you are fairly new here. Hope to see you around the boards. :)
Thank you for the welcome and thank you for sharing your view. All good points. However, I'd first like to ask you, would you agree that God's wrath begins at the opening of the sixth seal per Rev 6:12-17? And if not, why not?
 
Sep 2, 2020
15,152
6,109
113
#14
All views can be supported by selected portions of the Scriptures; however, I believe that there is only one view that is supported by ALL the Scriptures on this topic. For example, the most popular view is Pre-Trib because Pre-Tribbers view the start of the seven-year Tribulation period (opening of the first seal) as the wrath of God, which it is not. The first three-and-a-half years of the Tribulation Period includes the opening of the first seal through the opening of the fifth seal. The Believers are raptured/resurrected (per Chapter 7 and 14) just prior to the opening of the sixth seal as witnessed by those who are left behind per Rev 6:16-17. This is my view based on my many years of study on Revelation; however, I would love to be raptured before the first seal is opened, but I would be fooling myself to believe this after everything I've learned.
“But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:24, 26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s hard to really dismiss things like this because it’s Jesus telling about when he’s going to return after the tribulation he’s just explained tbey must endure through before he returns after it concludes

The only way for us to then argue against what he’s explained is to reject what he himself said about it . The key to ll these things is to find out what Jesus taught first and then the apostles wrotings all make perfect sense .

If we first reject what Jesus said, for instance he clearly taught that he would return and gather his people after the tribulation was over , then we’ll never come to an understanding of the truth of any of these subjects.

If you really at the subject of the tribulation Jesus is explaining to his disciples that they will most certainly endure through it but he’s telling them to stay strong because after it’s over he’s coming to get them …….the whole structure of the doctrine says post tribulation and pre wrath

pre trib doesn’t fit anywhere in the doctrine unless Jesus taught it all wrong
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
2,899
1,327
113
#15
there's no understanding on how some Christians believe they will be here during the tribulation because that is impossible. if someone is a born again Christian & you are alive at rapture time, you will be raptured up BEFORE the tribulation. ( 1st Thessalonians 4: 13-18, 5:9, Romans 5:8,9 ) what's the sense in being born again if you are on earth during the tribulation? what are you saved from? the answer is nothing. also, what sense does it make for atheists & believers to both be here during the tribulation? there's no difference. might as well follow the devil & do what you want. ( by no means, a suggestion ). you're not saved from anything.
 
Mar 2, 2025
36
10
8
#16
“But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:24, 26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s hard to really dismiss things like this because it’s Jesus telling about when he’s going to return after the tribulation he’s just explained tbey must endure through before he returns after it concludes

The only way for us to then argue against what he’s explained is to reject what he himself said about it . The key to ll these things is to find out what Jesus taught first and then the apostles wrotings all make perfect sense .

If we first reject what Jesus said, for instance he clearly taught that he would return and gather his people after the tribulation was over , then we’ll never come to an understanding of the truth of any of these subjects.

If you really at the subject of the tribulation Jesus is explaining to his disciples that they will most certainly endure through it but he’s telling them to stay strong because after it’s over he’s coming to get them …….the whole structure of the doctrine says post tribulation and pre wrath

pre trib doesn’t fit anywhere in the doctrine unless Jesus taught it all wrong
All very good points. Of course I agree with everything Jesus taught. However, our interpretation of some of the things He said may differ. For example, when Jesus said in Matthew 24:21, "for then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall." My interpretation of great tribulation is something that has never happened, just as He said. When you read about the events that will happen at the opening of seals one through five, these events (wars, famine, plagues) have happened throughout the history of mankind. But the events that will happen after the Antichrist is revealed in the middle of the Tribulation period (3-1/2 years) until Jesus removes His people from the earth, these things described in Rev 14:16-18, "no one should be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark." This is the period I believe Jesus is referring to when He uses the term great tribulation. Jesus then continues in Matthew 24:22, "And unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect (Believers), those days shall be cut short." via Jesus appearing in the clouds for the entire world to see per Rev1:7 and Rev 14:14-16, as He takes us up into the clouds to join Him. The unbelievers will be given one last chance to be saved as explained in Rev 14:6-7, but those who take the mark can never be saved per Rev 14:9-10. My understanding at this point after the rapture, is that no one else will have the opportunity to be saved. If you don't agree, please provide Scripture to support otherwise. Thank you for sharing.
 
Mar 2, 2025
36
10
8
#17
there's no understanding on how some Christians believe they will be here during the tribulation because that is impossible. if someone is a born again Christian & you are alive at rapture time, you will be raptured up BEFORE the tribulation. ( 1st Thessalonians 4: 13-18, 5:9, Romans 5:8,9 ) what's the sense in being born again if you are on earth during the tribulation? what are you saved from? the answer is nothing. also, what sense does it make for atheists & believers to both be here during the tribulation? there's no difference. might as well follow the devil & do what you want. ( by no means, a suggestion ). you're not saved from anything.
Agree with the Scriptures you're using to support your view; however, a Believer also cannot ignore the Scriptures Jesus provided to John in Revelation on what events will take place, blow by blow, before He returns to takes us up to be with Him.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
20,316
3,083
113
#18
I think it is also important to distinct the difference between the rapture and his second coming which seems to get confused a lot
 
Sep 2, 2020
15,152
6,109
113
#19
there's no understanding on how some Christians believe they will be here during the tribulation because that is impossible. if someone is a born again Christian & you are alive at rapture time, you will be raptured up BEFORE the tribulation. ( 1st Thessalonians 4: 13-18, 5:9, Romans 5:8,9 ) what's the sense in being born again if you are on earth during the tribulation? what are you saved from? the answer is nothing. also, what sense does it make for atheists & believers to both be here during the tribulation? there's no difference. might as well follow the devil & do what you want. ( by no means, a suggestion ). you're not saved from anything.
“there's no understanding on how some Christians believe they will be here during the tribulation because that is impossible”

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭

“you're not saved from anything”

“Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:9‬ ‭

You’re confusing tribulation with Gods wrath yet to come

“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me. But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them.

And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you. These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace.

In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:1-4, 33‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭

There’s no promise that we’re going to avoid tribulation but Gods enduring wrath that comes in the end in a lake of fire

He taught then they would definately face the tribulations he explained tbey would face and then promised to deliver thier everlasting souls if they stood strong in faith

“And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s a ton about these subjects but it all lines up perfectly with a post tribulation “ rapture “ which isn’t even a biblical term but a reference to Jesus return from heaven and raising the dead and then gathering his people to himself before he destroys everything else with fire and brimstone

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; when he shall come to be glorified in his saints,

and to be admired in all them that believe in that day.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That day jesus and his apostles warned is coming when the desd will be raised and everyone still alive and believing will be caught up together with the dead who were raised up to be with Jesus as he returns

“the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:”

believers will still be alive in the last generation many will rise up from the dead also believers of all generations since Christ came
 
Sep 2, 2020
15,152
6,109
113
#20
All very good points. Of course I agree with everything Jesus taught. However, our interpretation of some of the things He said may differ. For example, when Jesus said in Matthew 24:21, "for then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall." My interpretation of great tribulation is something that has never happened, just as He said. When you read about the events that will happen at the opening of seals one through five, these events (wars, famine, plagues) have happened throughout the history of mankind. But the events that will happen after the Antichrist is revealed in the middle of the Tribulation period (3-1/2 years) until Jesus removes His people from the earth, these things described in Rev 14:16-18, "no one should be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark." This is the period I believe Jesus is referring to when He uses the term great tribulation. Jesus then continues in Matthew 24:22, "And unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect (Believers), those days shall be cut short." via Jesus appearing in the clouds for the entire world to see per Rev1:7 and Rev 14:14-16, as He takes us up into the clouds to join Him. The unbelievers will be given one last chance to be saved as explained in Rev 14:6-7, but those who take the mark can never be saved per Rev 14:9-10. My understanding at this point after the rapture, is that no one else will have the opportunity to be saved. If you don't agree, please provide Scripture to support otherwise. Thank you for sharing.
“Matthew 24:21, "for then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall." My interpretation of great tribulation is something that has never happened,”

yes my point isn’t about when it happened or will happen I’m saying look at the context he’s teaching his followers “ you definately will go through these things and after they conclude I’ll return and gather my elect “

that’s all I’m saying “ the great tribulation “ is something he is teaching believers in him will go through is my only point not that they will not go through it or that Jesus is going to come gather them before it happens …..

at he doctrine is about what they would have to endure he was fore warning them . So if it hasn’t happened yet wouldn’t matter to my point I’m just saying the doctrine is t that they won’t have to endure it but that they certainly would have to

See my point is

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

….But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Behold, I have told you before.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:9-13, 20-22, 25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

My point is just that he’s dire warning then about what they are going to endure in the future and then he says he’ll return after it all concludes

If you look at the contemporary scriptures like mark they always concur and add more clarity

“But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:23-24, 27‬ ‭

See whether it’s already happened or not wouldn’t change the point of warning then they have to endure through this terrible time that’s all I’m saying the whole concept and doctrine is about believers going through and enduring through the tribulation nonmatter when it comes