The rapture is close?

[Johnjunior]

I've got a book the PROVES BIBLICALLY beyond doubt that the rapture WILL HAPPEN during the "Feast of Trumpets" in 1988!!!! It gives 88 reasons that it MUST BE TRUE!!! I can hardly wait!!!

The afternoon would be fine.

The Memorial of the blowing of the trumpets is a High Sabbath outlined in Leviticus the 23rd chapter and it reminds Saints what will occur when the trumpets are blown. Jesus does not leave Heaven until the 7th trump is blown. Which means during the great tribulation you and everyone else that believe this lie of a rapture will start killing your pastors because the abomination of desolation is going to wreak havoc on this Earth and GOD will have his saints hiding in the wilderness.

Then HOW would you say that the "24 elders" (saints who are shown sitting on "24 thrones" surrounding the "throne" shown to be "IN HEAVEN"-chpt 4) are shown to be wearing the awarded "stephanous / crowns," when Paul had said he would be awarded a "stephanos / crown" "IN THAT DAY" (and not to him only), speaking of the awards / rewards that take place at the "BEMA of Christ" (not when Paul died)--2Ti4:8?

Explain please.




[and I missed your other post... stating that the "24 elders" are named men from Chron24 (are these men from ONE NATION, and yet Rev4-5 has the "24 elders" saying of themselves "[redeemed us to God] out-of EVERY nation..." etc); I would simply point out that there are at least THREE SEPARATE SETS of "24 [names]" from OT contexts that I am aware of... and you've only pointed out ONE set of "24 [names]" to apply to these "24 elders"--I wonder why that is? Just curious]

If the 24 elders have the crown, then obviously this event occurs after the resurrection, The 24 elders are all names in the chapter I indicated and they are Hebrew Israelites, don't worry GOD will save Gentiles, Hamites and Shemites but the 24 elders are Israelites and me and you can't do nothing about that.

Zerubbabel will rebuild the temple. Did you even read the prophet of Ezekiel?

Ezekiel 43: 1 - 2, 4 - 7
1 Afterward he brought me to the gate, even the gate that looketh toward the east:

2 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.

You noticed it stated GOD came from the East and not Heaven? Because Jesus is already on Earth because that's his desire. To live here.

4 And the glory of the Lord came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.

5 So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the Lord filled the house.

6 And I heard him speaking unto me out of the house; and the man stood by me.

7 And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.

Do you notice that Jesus wants to dwell in the midst of Israel forever?

Do you know that each of the gates of New Jerusalem has the names of the 12 tribes of Israel?

GOD wants to save everyone but his throne will be in Jerusalem in the midst of the children of Israel and the children of Israel are NOT in the third heaven the entire nation is here on Earth. That's why he said over and over I will gather them and return them to their land. ACCEPT what is written, I guarantee you will love it. Why defend a doctrine taught by a minister who teaches lies. The book clearly says Jesus will be here so accept it.

One more Scripture for this post.
Daniel 7: 1 - 2, 15 - 18, 27
7 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.

2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.

I hope you know what the 4 winds represent, lets go down and see what else this chapter states.

15 I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.

16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.

17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Huh so the Saints going to take the kingdom. Now I need find out where this kingdom going to be.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

 

[Johnjunior]

The "Rapture [G726 - SNATCH]" pertains SOLELY TO "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (Eph1:20-23 "WHEN [as to its existence]"), that is, ALL believers saved "in this present age [singular]"; It does NOT pertain to all other saints of all OTHER time-periods (not to "OT saints"... not to Trib saints... not to MK-age saints). It pertains to those "IN Christ" (i.e. the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY; those permanently indwelt and sealed with the Holy Spirit--SEE what was stated about the Holy Spirit in John 7:39, for starters...).

So we're not saying "EVERYONE" (as you put in your quote at top), as in "EVERY SAINT of ALL TIMES"... no. "Our Rapture" does NOT pertain to "EVERY saint EVER".

After Jesus RETURNS to the earth is when (for example) the "Sheep and goat judgment of the NATIONS" takes place (NO ONE is being "raptured" in this Matt25 passage). The SHEEP [OF THE NATIONS--pl] (still-living persons at the END of the Trib yrs--no one is being "resurrected" in this Matt25 context either) will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies, capable of reproducing / bearing children. They are "believers," but none of these are being "raptured / caught up [G726]"--no, they enter the time-period of the EARTHLY MK age ("INHERIT the kingdom having been prepared for you...").




Same for the text of Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44 (and its parallel in Matt24), where verse 36 states, "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN "the meal [G347]" ("when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" means He will be an "ALREADY-WED Bridegroom," and these folks / saints in this passage will remain on the earth just as in the Matt25 passage--no one will be "raptured/SNATCHED [G726]" because "rapture" does NOT pertain to those saints (of that time-period). They [/believers/saints ONLY] will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies (not be lifted off the earth, as WE will be!)

So there is a rapture for special Saints? LOL

Man who taught you all these lies, like, seriously? There are TWO resurrections. The first one occurs when the 7th trump is blown as highlighted by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 - 17 the second one occurs after a 1000 years. Jesus will be ruling this Earth for a 1000 years. Flesh and blood can go up to Jerusalem to worship Jesus during the 1000 years. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the fathers Kingdom but during Jesus reign on this Earth flesh and blood will be present.
Isaiah 66: 1, 15
1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

I already highlighted that David found out where the LORD's rest is and shown you time and time again the LORD will rest on David's throne while ruling this entire Earth.

15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

16 For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many.

When the LORD comes back he is personally going to cut down wicked people. Yea that's right sweet Jesus is coming back killing, that's why he a LION of the tribe of Judah his 1st coming his was a sweet little lamb and let mankind kill him. LORD ain't playing no more. lets skip (feel free to read that entire chapter on your own).

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

BOOM......

You will even be able to see the Lake of fire. He said all flesh will see it so this is happening on Earth because we can all agree aint no flesh going up to the 3rd heaven.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Huh so the Saints going to take the kingdom. Now I need find out where this kingdom going to be.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

I've repeatedly referred to "the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom" in my posts throughout this thread; so I have NO IDEA why you think I believe it will be located "somewhere else" and insist on arguing that point as though I have.

I AGREED with you that, of "24 elders" it is stated, "and they SHALL REIGN on the earth". (This doesn't mean that ALL saints who ENTER the MK age will "reign"... many will be SUBJECTS of said kingdom.)


But, to your point about the Daniel 7 text: Verse 22 corresponds with what is stated in Rev20:4a about "still-living" saints at that time (whereas v.20:4b is about the saints who will have been KILLED / BEHEADED during the SECOND HALF of the 7-yr / 70th Week period). IOW, these particular saints are never "caught up [/SNATCHED - G726]" (they have come to faith WITHIN the TRIB yrs, FOLLOWING "our Rapture")... the ones "still-living" will enter the MK age in their mortal bodies (the verse you keep quoting has nothing to do with this fact), never having lifted off the earth. THAT is what Daniel 7:22,25,27 speaks to (esp. re: Israel... in the Dan7 context).

So OF COURSE I believe it is located "UNDER the whole heaven" (Dan7:27--I never stated otherwise!!)


One should recognize also, what Paul had said regarding "resurrection" in 1Cor15:22-23, where it says, "[re: resurrection] BUT [conj] each IN HIS OWN ORDER / RANK." Meaning, there is an ORDER / RANK to it, there doesn't remain only ONE at ONE SINGULAR point in time (and this is confirmed by Paul's use of the "FUTURE TENSE" when he said in v.22, "...so IN CHRIST *shall [FUTURE TENSE]* all be made alive, BUT [conj] each in his own ORDER / RANK..." and then goes on to use first the "EPeita" word in v.23 [between two pertinent phrases] and then the "EITA" word in v.24a. I've posted about this section numerous times in many past threads--perhaps check it out).

And then when he writes later in this chpt, he says, "Behold, I SHEW you A MYSTERY..." and then goes on to say (specifically), "THIS corruptible" [i.e. "the DEAD IN Christ"] and "THIS mortal" [the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto" part of the "ONE BODY" / "Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"]--where the "THIS" is referring specifically [and only] to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [all believers "in this present age [singular]"], i.e. those "IN Christ" which is a NT designation. See again Eph1:20-23 "WHEN [as to its existence]".)

IOW, this passage is NOT talking about that which Daniel (OT saint) ALREADY WELL-KNEW (he was told "when" he would be "resurrected" / "to stand again" ON THE EARTH, Dan12:13 (in relation to the "end of the days" spoken on IN THAT CONTEXT--i.e. at the END of the SECOND HALF of the Trib: vv.1,6-7); and not what Job ALREADY WELL-KNEW, per Job19:25-27; and not what Martha ALREADY WELL-KNEW, per John 11:24 (same as the other aforementioned OT saints--as was promised TO THEM). Nope, this is Paul SHEWING "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" what was A MYSTERY (something as-yet undisclosed but that he was tasked by God with now [at the time written] disclosing--to, for and about a particular body of people).

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ I guess here might be a good place to drop this partial quote by C H Mackintosh (who was addressing the fact of same falling sway under a particular [incorrect] "teaching")...


"[...] yet not a syllable about the real position of the Church--its calling, its standing, its hopes, its privileges!

"And not a word about Israel's future! A complete ignoring, or at best a thorough alienation, of the promises made to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and David! The whole body of prophetic teaching subjected to a system of spiritualizing, falsely so called, whereby Israel is robbed of its proper portion [...]"

--C H Mackintosh

 

[Johnjunior]

I AGREED with you that, of "24 elders" it is stated, "and they SHALL REIGN on the earth". (This doesn't mean that ALL saints who ENTER the MK age will "reign"... many will be SUBJECTS of said kingdom.)

The subjects are the flesh and blood beings that will be here. In the fathers Kingdom we are all brothers and sisters because everyone will be immortal.

But, to your point about the Daniel 7 text: Verse 22 corresponds with what is stated in Rev20:4a about "still-living" saints at that time (whereas v.20:4b is about the saints who will have been KILLED / BEHEADED during the SECOND HALF of the 7-yr / 70th Week period). IOW, these particular saints are never "caught up

Saints that die during the great tribulation will make the first resurrection. Also the great tribulation is 3.5 years all over revelation and Daniel tells you 3.5 years. You're teaching but your doctrine is not in the bible. Sounds like you got that from some pastor with a fancy theology degree and that's not how GOD distribute his knowledge.

So OF COURSE I believe it is located "UNDER the whole heaven" (Dan7:27--I never stated otherwise!!)

If it's under heaven then it's on Earth. I'm rebuking the going to the 3rd heaven doctrine. So now it seems like you are changing your position because you seem to be agreeing with Blair.

Imma process everything else you say later because you post scripture literally with your interpretation right next to it. I can read just fine.

 

[tharkun]

The two resurections are resurrections of TYPE, not TIME. The first is to life, the second to death. The first will take place in 3 phases: 1st - Christ (the firstfruits), 2nd - those changed at His Coming (the harvest), 3rd - the sheep who remain at the end of the DotL (the gleanings).

 

[Blain]

The subjects are the flesh and blood beings that will be here. In the fathers Kingdom we are all brothers and sisters because everyone will be immortal.

Saints that die during the great tribulation will make the first resurrection. Also the great tribulation is 3.5 years all over revelation and Daniel tells you 3.5 years. You're teaching but your doctrine is not in the bible. Sounds like you got that from some pastor with a fancy theology degree and that's not how GOD distribute his knowledge.


If it's under heaven then it's on Earth. I'm rebuking the going to the 3rd heaven doctrine. So now it seems like you are changing your position because you seem to be agreeing with Blair.

Imma process everything else you say later because you post scripture literally with your interpretation right next to it. I can read just fine.

If you must know I don't have a particular stance on when the rapture is I think it more likely it will be a mid trib rapture but it also could be pre or post I don't concern myself when it is just to be ready
and as for the doctrine of third heaven we will not be able to agree on that because I and @TheDivineWatermark Divinewatermark already showed the evidence of that for the discussions sake I think it best we agree to disagree

 

[Johnjunior]

If you must know I don't have a particular stance on when the rapture is I think it more likely it will be a mid trib rapture but it also could be pre or post I don't concern myself when it is just to be ready
and as for the doctrine of third heaven we will not be able to agree on that because I and @TheDivineWatermark Divinewatermark already showed the evidence of that for the discussions sake I think it best we agree to disagree

Yea you don't have a stance because it's not in the bible. GOD ALWAYS tell his servants what will happen and when, GOD only will appear like a thief in the night to those who don't know nothing and I'm happy you admitted that.

We not going to agree to disagree, we just don't agree at all. I believe in what's written and you don't, end of discussion. Enjoy your day.

 

[Johnjunior]

One should recognize also, what Paul had said regarding "resurrection" in 1Cor15:22-23, where it says, "[re: resurrection] BUT [conj] each IN HIS OWN ORDER / RANK." Meaning, there is an ORDER / RANK to it, there doesn't remain only ONE at ONE SINGULAR point in time (and this is confirmed by Paul's use of the "FUTURE TENSE" when he said in v.22, "...so IN CHRIST *shall [FUTURE TENSE]* all be made alive, BUT [conj] each in his own ORDER / RANK..." and then goes on to use first the "EPeita" word in v.23 [between two pertinent phrases] and then the "EITA" word in v.24a. I've posted about this section numerous times in many past threads--perhaps check it out).

You try really hard to flex your knowledge rather than posting the scripture. I'm educated so I can read, and I know what words mean. Paul said this:
1 Corinthians 15: 12 - 14, 21 - 23
12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Is Christ here yet? NO, so where are the dead? In the ground. There are only two resurrections so stop making it seem like there are more than 2. All the SAINTS who keep GOD's commandments will make the 1st resurrection. That's when the meet the LORD in the air because CHRIST is coming here. What is so hard to understand?

 

[Johnjunior]

IOW, this passage is NOT talking about that which Daniel (OT saint) ALREADY WELL-KNEW (he was told "when" he would be "resurrected" / "to stand again" ON THE EARTH, Dan12:13 (in relation to the "end of the days" spoken on IN THAT CONTEXT--i.e. at the END of the SECOND HALF of the Trib: vv.1,6-7); and not what Job ALREADY WELL-KNEW, per Job19:25-27; and not what Martha ALREADY WELL-KNEW, per John 11:24 (same as the other aforementioned OT saints--as was promised TO THEM). Nope, this is Paul SHEWING "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" what was A MYSTERY (something as-yet undisclosed but that he was tasked by God with now [at the time written] disclosing--to, for and about a particular body of people).

Boy the tribulation is 3.5 years stop teaching Satan's doctrine. You really going to make me quote all the scripture that states it's 3.5 years??

^ I guess here might be a good place to drop this partial quote by C H Mackintosh (who was addressing the fact of same falling sway under a particular [incorrect] "teaching")...


"[...] yet not a syllable about the real position of the Church--its calling, its standing, its hopes, its privileges!

"And not a word about Israel's future! A complete ignoring, or at best a thorough alienation, of the promises made to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and David! The whole body of prophetic teaching subjected to a system of spiritualizing, falsely so called, whereby Israel is robbed of its proper portion [...]"

--C H Mackintosh

NOW I KNOW you ain't reading nothing I say. I clearly stated imma process the rest of your post later. I am educator and I teach chemistry, sometimes I am busy getting ready for classes. Now you making it seem like I am dodging you? You ain't got no precepts to back up your doctrine. Jesus himself kept stating it is written. I ain't going to compete with how smart you are because all this "Eita" and nonsense words you are using I have no idea what they mean. So you not trying to edify you trying to confuse. Check that spirit mate.

The majority of Israelites are going to the lake of fire because they don't listen. Only spiritual Israel will make the resurrection. I prefer to stay on topic I am aware that this entire bible is about Jesus and it's also about his wife which are the children of Israel.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Aww... the man who wrote that book based his "figurings" on the faulty "Historicist" hermeneutic, so naturally came to incorrect conclusions.

["1260 DAYS" is "1260 DAYS" not "1260 *years*"--one of the many MIS-steps of such hermeneutic, sorry to say]

Fortunately it's nothing but "Theology" which is like noses. Everybody's got one.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The two resurections are resurrections of TYPE, not TIME. The first is to life, the second to death. The first will take place in 3 phases:

I pretty much agree with you that "the resurrection the first [adj]" will take place IN PHASES. (IOW, Rev20:5b [re: v.4b] isn't the first TIME resurrection will have taken place; it's speaking about "first" IN QUALITY, not in TIME, like you say) .

Happy to know we can agree on something. = )

1st -Christ (the firstfruits), 2nd - those changed at His Coming (the harvest), 3rd - the sheep who remain at the end of the DotL (the gleanings).

I have a slightly different understanding of it;

but again (not going to go into that ^ now), I'm glad to know we agree that "the resurrection the first [adj]" takes place IN PHASES ("[re: the "FUTURE-TENSE resurrection v.22b just referred to] 23 BUT [conj] each IN HIS OWN ORDER / RANK..."--right!)



"Blessed and holy is the one HAVING A PART IN the resurrection the first [adj]..." - Rev20:6a

 

[Johnjunior]

"Blessed and holy is the one HAVING A PART IN the resurrection the first [adj]..." - Rev20:6a

Revelation 20: 6
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

If you are a part of the first resurrection, then that means they met Christ in the air in 1 Thessalonians 4.

This is the second resurrection
Revelation 20: 7, 12 - 15
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

So, the Saints where reigning for 1000 years and when it was over Satan was let go and went out to deceive people. Then the white throne judgment occurs.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


So, people who come up after 1000 years are a part of the second resurrection and these people are going to get judged. Which means people who come up in the 1st resurrection don't get judge. It does not take place in phases; you added that part and you cannot do that. The LORD warned us not to do that. If you are saying, there are phases then you MUST have something in the bible that says otherwise you would be guilty of adding to the word.

 

[tharkun]

It does take place in at least two phases: Christ (Who is explicity called the firstfruits), and those at His coming (the Harvest).

 

[TBaldy]

Wow -

I'm reading some pretty incredible stuff here. So many ideas "imposed" on Scripture......simply amazing.

Respectfully, if I may add some things to consider "without" imposing any ideas on Scripture.

1) There is no remaining future 7-year period. There is only a 3.5-year time period remaining and it's the Great Tribulation
2) There is no Pre-Tribulation Rapture which precedes a 7-year tribulation (having two separate 3.5-year intervals)
3) There is only ONE General Resurrection as explained in (John 5:28-29) This occurs at His Coming which is also the DOTL
4) The Day of the Lord (DOTL) happens at the same at as the Rapture - on the LAST DAY (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4)
5) There is NO Millennial Reign of Christ (Revelation 20 & Isiah 65 cannot be taken in a wooden literal sense)
6) Scripture NEVER mentions a 2nd Resurrection - it only mentions a 2nd Death which is the Lake of Fire
7) The Rapture happens AFTER the Great Tribulation and the Righteous are gathered unto Him on the LAST DAY (John 6:39-40)
8) When Jesus Appears, His Kingdom Comes with Him - not 1,000 years later (2 Timothy 4:1)
9) The coming Antichrist will be revealed BEFORE the Rapture (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4) - He may be here now (black suited guy)
10) Daniel 9:24-27 NEVER mentions a 7-year "peace treaty." It mentions a "Covenant with Many" and in the middle of this week or 7 years "sacrifice and grain offerings would be stopped." If you'll do your history, this prophecy may have already been full by Antiochus Epiphanes IV - who literally committed "an" Abomination of Desolation by placing an idol of Zeus on the Altar and also stopped the sacrifice & grain offerings. This led to the Maccabean Revolt - so let's please not confuse this fulfilment of prophecy with any End Time eschatology as many do. Something else to consider is Jesus was crucified AFTER 62 + 7 = 69 weeks (as mentioned in Daniel 9:25-26) ... so, He died sometime in the 70 weeks. His Ministry was 3.5 years - so only 3.5 future years remain to complete the 70 weeks. This remaining 3.5 years will be the time the World experiences Great Tribulation.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

It does not take place in phases; you added that part and you cannot do that. The LORD warned us not to do that. If you are saying, there are phases then you MUST have something in the bible that says otherwise you would be guilty of adding to the word.

I *did* point something out IN THE TEXT ITSELF, but you seemed uninterested in "examining these things" to see whether these things are so:

--1Cor15:22b's "FUTURE TENSE" Subject ("so also *IN* Christ" SHALL ALL BE MADE ALIVE [FUTURE TENSE]") is CONNECTED to what FOLLOWS in the text (v.23) by the "BUT [CONJUNCTION]"--"But each IN HIS OWN ORDER / RANK" (EVERYTHING in verse 23 pertains to this "FUTURE TENSE" resurrection--*IN Christ SHALL all BE MADE ALIVE" [be resurrected--speaking of saved persons]--It isn't reaching back to that which verse 20 had ALREADY covered [i.e. Jesus' OWN resurrection]");


--Paul's use of the TWO distinct words (in vv.23 and 24a), "EPeita" (v.23) and "EITA" (v.24a); the LATTER of these (in the phrase "THEN [EITA]" the end" v.24a (note: the word "coming" is not in the text), this "EITA [THEN]" word is "a SEQUENCE WORD ONLY, with NO time-element attached to it" [this is KEY, and good reason to understand the DISTINCTION between "EPeita" and "EITA" that Paul is using here!])... so ["EITA" v.23a] having NO PROBLEM AT ALL referring to something "1000 YEARS later," just as that which was named FIRST IN THE LIST (Jesus' OWN resurrection in verse 20[!] [in the PAST from when this was written]) having taken place some "2000 YEARS" prior to the next item LISTED here in this passage [speaking of "resurrection"]--IOW, the "Amillennialist teaching" saying that v.24a means "then IMMEDIATELY the end" is not correct (and does not consider this LISTING [/ LISTED ITEMS re: resurrection, in this passage] either--consequently they come to wrong conclusions about what this passage is conveying); and


--the "2W' are resurrected (and ascend up to heaven) at the "6th Trumpet [events] / 2nd Woe," at a time-slot DISTINCT from when all others will be--One should be prepared to explain WHY that is, rather than to IMPOSE INTO the text the incorrect idea that they are resurrected at the "7th trumpet / 3rd Woe," when the TEXT ITSELF tells us that HASN'T YET OCCURED at the time they were resurrected and ascended (Rev11:14); I believe this passage is written explicitly this way to ANSWER THIS QUESTION / MATTER purposely;


--there's more, but three points are enough to consider in ONE POST (too many gets cumbersome to read)










Several times now, I've presented my reasons FROM SCRIPTURE ITSELF.

 

[tharkun]

1) There is no remaining future 7-year period. There is only a 3.5-year time period remaining and it's the Great Tribulation

Nowhere is the GT described as 3.5 yrs long; rather Jesus said it will be 'cut short'.

6) Scripture NEVER mentions a 2nd Resurrection - it only mentions a 2nd Death which is the Lake of Fire

Rev 20:4-5?
Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.) This is the first resurrection.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

(in the phrase "THEN [EITA]" the end" v.24a (note: the word "coming" is not in the text)

EDIT TYPO: should read: "the word "COMETH / COMES"..." (v.24a) is not in the text.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Nowhere is the GT described as 3.5 yrs long; rather Jesus said it will be 'cut short'.

So, you don't believe that Daniel 12:1,6-7 ("how long till the end of these...") speaks to that very matter, where the response was: "until A TIME, TIMES, and an half" [equaling precisely "1260 days" when one considers the Hebrew word being used here for "time / times" and how that relates to their calendar matters); Not to mention that when Jesus (in Matt24:15) spoke of the "AOD [SINGULAR, SINGULAR] spoken of by Daniel the prophet," He could ONLY have been referencing the mention in Daniel 12:11 [AOD -- SINGULAR, SINGULAR], and that one supplies a specific NUMBER OF DAYS ("1290 days") which is even longer.

IOW, I believe it is a mistake to think that what Jesus meant by His words in Matt24:22 ("those days shall be shortened [/CURTAILED--G2856]") that these OT passages speaking to "duration / length-of-time" regarding it, would be CHANGED from what was originally written about it. No. It just means, if they weren't "CURTAILED" no one would survive, it'll be that bad. But they WILL BE CURTAILED (an end put to it, by His RETURN, of course... at the prophesied point in time, as written).



[Rev12 also supplies the "1260 days" duration, and Rev13 supplies the "42 mos" duration--IOW, all passages agree]

 

[tharkun]

So, you don't believe that Daniel 12:1,6-7 ("how long till the end of these...") speaks to that very matter, where the response was: "until A TIME, TIMES, and an half" [equaling precisely "1260 days" when one considers the Hebrew word being used here for "time / times" and how that relates to their calendar matters); Not to mention that when Jesus (in Matt24:15) spoke of the "AOD [SINGULAR, SINGULAR] spoken of by Daniel the prophet," He could ONLY have been referencing the mention in Daniel 12:11 [AOD -- SINGULAR, SINGULAR], and that one supplies a specific NUMBER OF DAYS ("1290 days") which is even longer.

IOW, I believe it is a mistake to think that what Jesus meant by His words in Matt24:22 ("those days shall be shortened [/CURTAILED--G2856]") that these OT passages speaking to "duration / length-of-time" regarding it, would be CHANGED from what was originally written about it. No. It just means, if they weren't "CURTAILED" no one would survive, it'll be that bad. But they WILL BE CURTAILED (an end put to it, by His RETURN, of course... at the prophesied point in time, as written).


[Rev12 also supplies the "1260 days" duration, and Rev13 supplies the "42 mos" duration--IOW, all passages agree]

All passages agree that there is a 3.5 yr period - I do not deny that. What I'm saying is that nowhere in scripture is the GT given a length of 3.5 yrs. That is simply made up. The verb for 'cut short' koloboo means to mutilate or shorten. You can't have a given time period be 3.5 yrs long and then say it is shortened to 3.5 years also. It is the actions within the time period that are cut short and therefore do not last the full 3.5 yrs. They are cut short by the return of Christ for His elect and the onset of the DotL.