Is having faith/belief obeying?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Oct 24, 2012
17,333
710
113
That is a very good post, homwardbound.

I am not sure how folk would react to your statement.

"This is the greatest Love story from God to us"

God at His core is love and that is difficult to comprehend.

That is agape love which is absolutely absent in human history.

Agape love was revealed only in the gospel of Jesus Christ to humanity.

Lord, your love is staggering and far beyond our ability to understand.

It's not God's justice at play but His profound love for you and I.

No one fully understands the love of God which was so powerfully displayed in Christ Jesus.
It is all God and none of me, you or anyone else. Having been born in the dead flesh first and learned from that in punishment or no punishments (Spare the rod, spot; the child) our parent guides, not understanding it either, yet trying, only knowing good and bad. And not knowing how or when to teach a child in reality from God Father in risen Son, very few parent guides know how, they are learning too, or not, if care or not, and if born new yet from God or not

Not, all try and want to do it right, I get that. Our mixing flesh and Spirit of God is much different from God's spirit living in and through us, at least me.
the Bible says to imitate God. S0, we the people camp out on that, and there are those that have given that up, the imitating.

So here is a ? for us all. Each please see to themselves, what their trouble is in trying to do and do not do it right and yet want to do it right and do not want to do that sin anymore?

I will ask this of an Alcoholic, that goes to church, reads the word, wants to quit and does for a short while, then slips back into what one does not want to do anymore and yet does. This includes all other issues, including porn watching, stealing, lying and so forth.

Ask yourself this?
Which Jesus are you serving?
What? I hear each person say, there is only one Jesus, I respond, that is correct.
Therefore, in the ? which Jesus are you serving?
Is it the Jesus that lived his life here on earth as perfect, that you are trying to imitate?
Or is it the risen Jesus to live in you and through you, given you as a gift for you? everything in love and mercy to all, is the gift from God to all, at least for me.
The difference, it is me no more me trying to do Agape Love, which I know I can't do perfectly ever and therefore now have given up everything to Father, as that woman did in Luke 21:1-


Authorized (King James) Version
Luke21:1-4
21 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury. 2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites. 3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all: 4 for all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.

We all see this, and do we all do that, how many: butts (Like a billy goat) interject in that 100% truth for us to let go of everything willingly to God first above it all? It does not mean we sell everything and be homeless. It means be willing to give as led to give from God not religion churches of people necessarily, that are not God. God still speaks, sit still go into your closet, close the door and tell to Father, Daddy, PaPa, and hear truth over all the errors here in this world still happening as has been happening from day one in the fall of the first Adam.
We now have the 2 Adam, Jesus the risen to live new from and in for me at least. the work tha thad to get done is now done first (John 19:30)

I see, where any thought of anything leads, people in general. It starts a thought, and then comes doing the thought, then out comes drinking a little, then a little more and then more and more. I was an Alcoholic over 40 years ago now. Got caught up in watching porn and partying a lot. Once I see, saw it all began to leave, whatever I got me caught up into

It began the first day I chose belief to God over it all (Eph 1:13), then growing started and saw Eph 1:6.7 Accepted by God and forgiven by God. Talk about being floored and then saw I am forgiven, responded Thank you to God, then asked for the new life and God has been performing that in and through me ever since, yes even where I sinned again, God has not ever left me as people say God does, God does not y'all
God simply sincerely loves us all otherwise why would he have sent Son to that cross for us all to have the chance to choose life over death?


Authorized (King James) Version
Hebrews 10:17
17 and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Now, presently and forever in risen Son that is now done for us the people, too see and be thankful to Father and then ask how to leave sin behind us? From God who we do not see physically any more as they did (2 Cor 5:16)
Righteousness does not come by the Law!
Perfection comes from through the done work of God Father in risen Son for us all to stand in belief to this truth only, for me anyways as I have seen sin leave, left and am still learning from bad habits waxing away, maturing off the milk and now eating meat. This truth is for us all to love in the same mercy sand truth given us by Son's willingness to die for us all first as reconciled (2 Cor 5:17-20)
 
Oct 19, 2024
3,521
814
113
OK. But this is not what I'm asking you and I think that's clear.



Incorrect.

I'm simply trying to clarify what you're saying, and I think it's very simple for you to agree or disagree with what I'm asking you or to clarify apart from repeating your statement. I think your statement is saying precisely what I'm saying that there is no faith apart from obedience. I also think you're concerned about agreeing because you think I'm leading you into something you won't like.

What did you think of @Believer08 posts #78 & #79?
Yes, I swear (darn!) it seems like some folks avoid agreement like the plague!
 

JBTN

Active member
Feb 11, 2020
230
86
28
I don’t believe John 6:29 is saying that belief is a work.

“Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.””
‭‭John‬ ‭6‬:‭29‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.6.29.ESV

God is working to produce faith in people. He is doing this by bearing witness to his Son. Jesus tells us this.

“But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.” This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing. And greater works than these will he show him, so that you may marvel.
‭‭John‬ ‭5‬:‭17‬-‭20‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.5.17-18.ESV

“But the testimony that I have is greater than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to accomplish, the very works that I am doing, bear witness about me that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen,”
‭‭John‬ ‭5‬:‭36‬-‭37‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.5.36-37.ESV

“It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me—”
‭‭John‬ ‭6‬:‭45‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.6.45.ESV

Jesus was asked “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?”
Jesus’s response to the question is basically to say that the work God is doing is bearing witness to the Son so that they might believe in the Son.
 

JBTN

Active member
Feb 11, 2020
230
86
28
This verse shows that belief or faith is different from works.

“But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭4‬:‭5‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/1/rom.4.5.KJV
 
Apr 7, 2014
25,806
13,713
113
59
OK. But this is not what I'm asking you and I think that's clear.

Incorrect.

I'm simply trying to clarify what you're saying, and I think it's very simple for you to agree or disagree with what I'm asking you or to clarify apart from repeating your statement. I think your statement is saying precisely what I'm saying that there is no faith apart from obedience. I also think you're concerned about agreeing because you think I'm leading you into something you won't like.

What did you think of @Believer08 posts #78 & #79?
I think posts #78 and #79 turn believing in Jesus for salvation (trusting in Him as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation) into trusting in what we do for Jesus in order to be saved. Works righteousness.
 
Apr 7, 2014
25,806
13,713
113
59
A lot of people thinks works are all the same and completely overlook John 6:28-29, where right after Jesus was asked, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?” He said “This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”
In John 6:29, Jesus said - "This is the work (singular) of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent," when He answered the Jews (who were taking a legalistic approach) when they asked, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works (plural) of God?" So, by Jesus' play on words here, He was not implying that believing is just "another" work in a series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works. Also, through believing, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption - Romans 3:24-28). There is a distinction between faith and works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
2,206
487
83
I think posts #78 and #79 turn believing in Jesus for salvation (trusting in Him as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation) into trusting in what we do for Jesus in order to be saved. Works righteousness.
I thought you might but it's better to let you say it.

IMO you're taking a stand against a lot of Scripture. One of the issues in the debate against Rome is that many are seen to have taken the argument too far and thereby entered into their own error - the pendulum swung too far.

It's a simple fix Scripturally albeit not mentally for many. The Scripture obviously parallels faith with obedience. The Scripture also attaches obedience to works.

If God says salvation is by grace through faith not works, then as He explains elsewhere, this would be salvation is by grace through faith-obedience not from works. I think this and my next statement are the discussion in Eph2.

Then when He speaks of good works as those that are done in faith-obedience, we thus have faith-obedience-good works.

The faith-obedience doesn't change.

Even the concept of obedience-works is obviously not a good one because faith is left out. I think this is the discussion in Rom3-4.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
21,247
7,260
113
63
faith = obedience = works = fruit, but faith is BOTH first AND works.
Faith is belief. Belief leads to action. But faith and obedience are not synonymous. You are conflating faith...what we believe...with the exercise of our faith...behavior based on what we believe.
 
Apr 7, 2014
25,806
13,713
113
59
I thought you might but it's better to let you say it.

IMO you're taking a stand against a lot of Scripture. One of the issues in the debate against Rome is that many are seen to have taken the argument too far and thereby entered into their own error - the pendulum swung too far.

It's a simple fix Scripturally albeit not mentally for many. The Scripture obviously parallels faith with obedience. The Scripture also attaches obedience to works.

If God says salvation is by grace through faith not works, then as He explains elsewhere, this would be salvation is by grace through faith-obedience not from works. I think this and my next statement are the discussion in Eph2.

Then when He speaks of good works as those that are done in faith-obedience, we thus have faith-obedience-good works.

The faith-obedience doesn't change.

Even the concept of obedience-works is obviously not a good one because faith is left out. I think this is the discussion in Rom3-4.
Faith is the root of salvation and multiple acts of obedience/works which follow are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. Simple as that.
 
Oct 24, 2012
17,333
710
113
Then everyone would be saved.
Per God's view that be the case he desires, for all to choose God, will not, does no, nor manipulates anyone to believe God. Son went that cross willingly for us all to get given new life in his risen Life. That is all that is left to believe or not believe the only choice left to believe God or not consciously.
Even though I do see not all will come to believe God. As said when he said go away, I never knew you, you who work iniquity, I do not understand that mystery, I simply trust God in all things. God saves, sacrificed himself to save us all, in belief, one will get the done work through them working through them, being at rest from being willing to do it. Then God does it as did that on Pentecost, the disciples did not do any work, but be vessels for God to use and tell them there then about Son as risen and 3.000 believed probably a lot more
However bottom line
God just loves us all y'all start there between God and you personally and see new in love and mercy to you too
All God never died for is: Unbelief to this love and mercy given us in risen Son as proof, to me anyways and not condemned or excuse anyone else, not even self is what I see in thanksgiving and praise
God does desires us all to come to believe God does only want what is best for us all Jeremiah 29:11
This be why it is taking so long for the return, God loves us all y'all choose consciously please and then the end might happen sooner
 
Jan 27, 2025
621
171
43
@studier, I think these versions provide helpful understanding on how believing is something we are required to do.

NIV: Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

RSV: Then they said to him, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?"

ESV: Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?”

AMP: Then they asked Him, “What are we to do, so that we may habitually be doing the works of God?”

ISV: Then they asked him, “What must we do to perform God’s works?”

The MNT: What are we to do habitually," they asked him, "that we may keep working the words of God?"

MAC: then said they to him, what shall we do, that our works may he agreeable to God?

Living Oracles: They asked him, therefore, What are the works which God requires us to do?

Williams: Then they asked Him, "What must we do to perform the works that God demands?

WNT: What are we to do," they asked, "in order to carry out the things that God requires?

JMNT: Then they said to Him, "What should we be habitually doing, so that we would be habitually working God’s works (or: actions having the character of God; or: the deeds which have their source in God; or: = the things God wants us to do)?"

BSB: Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?”

MSB: Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?”

VIN: Then they asked him, "What must we do to perform the works of God?"

NLT: They replied, “We want to perform God’s works, too. What should we do?”

NET: Jesus replied, "This is the deed God requires - to believe in the one whom he sent."

BBE: Then they said to him, How may we do the works of God?

NASB20: Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”