Which works justify?
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The works that justified Abraham were not of their own devising. As no human can devise such works to be justified by their own self. So, it had to be of faith..which would be of God. In other words, they both had a faith that worked, centered on doing the will OF God. God required that of them, otherwise how would they have been justified? That’s how they were justified by works. Since it was not works of the law..if the flesh…of their own righteousness…etc etc…then it had to be the works of faith in obedience to God. The had a faith that worked (obeyed). That’s how they were justified. But for some, it’s too difficult to imagine how true saving faith has obedience.
CC: @TrustandObey
CC: @TrustandObey
@Cameron143 some T or F questions
T F Without Faith it is impossible to please God - Heb. 11:6
T F All scripture is given by inspiration of God - II Tim. 3:16,17
T F No one is justified by works
T F No one is justified by the works of the law - Gal. 2:16
T F There is no contradiction in scripture
T F All works will cause us to be lost
T F We see then that by works a man is justified and not by faith only - James 2:24
T F Faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone - James 2:17
T F Abraham was justified by works when he offered up Isaac on the altar - James 2:21
T F Abraham was justified by faith and by works
T F To have faith, one must first have God’s word upon which to base faith
T F Faith can extend beyond God’s commands and be acceptable to God
T F Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God - Rom. 10:17
T F One can offer whatever one wants, even that not commanded by God, and God must accept it as right
T F Cain’s offering was not accepted by God because it was not of faith - Heb. 11:4
T F Abel’s offering was accepted by God because it was offered in faith - Heb. 11:4
T F Rahab acted in faith - Heb. 11:31
T F We can continue in sin in order to receive God’s grace - Rom. 6:1
T F Abel offered only what God had commanded
T F Abraham’s faith wrought with his works and by his works his faith was made perfect - James 2:22
T F A man is justified by works and not by faith only - James 2:24
T F There are different kinds of works
T F Faith is a work - John 6:28,29
T F Jesus became the author of eternal salvation unto all that obey Him - Heb. 5:8,9
T F Obedience is earning salvation
T F All earning salvation is sin
T F All obedience is sin
T F The only way to be pleasing to God is to disobey Him
T F We can be saved without obedience
T F We can be saved before obedience
T F Works of merit are the same as works of obedience
T F A work of faith is sinful
T F We can do the works of God - John 6:28,29
T F The work of God is that we believe - John 6:28,29
T F Believing is a work of God - John 6:28,29
T F All works are earning salvation and are sinful
T F Believing is sinful
T F We are saved by faith only
T F We are saved by repentance only - Luke 13:3
T F We are saved by confession only - Matt. 10:32,33
T F We are saved by baptism only - I Pet. 3:21
T F We must take all God’s word says on a subject to have the whole truth
T F Our sins must be washed away to be saved
T F The blood of Christ washes away sin of a lost sinner when one has faith to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins - Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16
T F He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved - Mark 16:15,16
T F We repent and are baptized for the remission of sins - Acts 2:38
T F Baptism is something you do
T F Baptism is something that is done to you
T F Baptism is a burial - Rom. 6:4
T F A dead man cannot bury himself
T F We are raised from baptism to walk in newness of life - Rom. 6:4
T F Without Faith it is impossible to please God - Heb. 11:6
T F All scripture is given by inspiration of God - II Tim. 3:16,17
T F No one is justified by works
T F No one is justified by the works of the law - Gal. 2:16
T F There is no contradiction in scripture
T F All works will cause us to be lost
T F We see then that by works a man is justified and not by faith only - James 2:24
T F Faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone - James 2:17
T F Abraham was justified by works when he offered up Isaac on the altar - James 2:21
T F Abraham was justified by faith and by works
T F To have faith, one must first have God’s word upon which to base faith
T F Faith can extend beyond God’s commands and be acceptable to God
T F Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God - Rom. 10:17
T F One can offer whatever one wants, even that not commanded by God, and God must accept it as right
T F Cain’s offering was not accepted by God because it was not of faith - Heb. 11:4
T F Abel’s offering was accepted by God because it was offered in faith - Heb. 11:4
T F Rahab acted in faith - Heb. 11:31
T F We can continue in sin in order to receive God’s grace - Rom. 6:1
T F Abel offered only what God had commanded
T F Abraham’s faith wrought with his works and by his works his faith was made perfect - James 2:22
T F A man is justified by works and not by faith only - James 2:24
T F There are different kinds of works
T F Faith is a work - John 6:28,29
T F Jesus became the author of eternal salvation unto all that obey Him - Heb. 5:8,9
T F Obedience is earning salvation
T F All earning salvation is sin
T F All obedience is sin
T F The only way to be pleasing to God is to disobey Him
T F We can be saved without obedience
T F We can be saved before obedience
T F Works of merit are the same as works of obedience
T F A work of faith is sinful
T F We can do the works of God - John 6:28,29
T F The work of God is that we believe - John 6:28,29
T F Believing is a work of God - John 6:28,29
T F All works are earning salvation and are sinful
T F Believing is sinful
T F We are saved by faith only
T F We are saved by repentance only - Luke 13:3
T F We are saved by confession only - Matt. 10:32,33
T F We are saved by baptism only - I Pet. 3:21
T F We must take all God’s word says on a subject to have the whole truth
T F Our sins must be washed away to be saved
T F The blood of Christ washes away sin of a lost sinner when one has faith to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins - Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16
T F He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved - Mark 16:15,16
T F We repent and are baptized for the remission of sins - Acts 2:38
T F Baptism is something you do
T F Baptism is something that is done to you
T F Baptism is a burial - Rom. 6:4
T F A dead man cannot bury himself
T F We are raised from baptism to walk in newness of life - Rom. 6:4
As I interpret the Greek text of John 17:2-3, which diverges somewhat from many English translations IMHO, eternal life is defined there thus: everything (pan) that (h0) God (patEr) had given (dedOkas) to Jesus (autOi) which He had given (dOsEi) to all flesh (autois, i.e. pasEs sarkos) was aeonous life (aiOnion zOEn).
And all those things were given so that (hina) those being given them should know (ginOskOsin) the only true God (ton monon alEthinon theon) and Jesus Christ (kai IEsoun Christon), whom (hOn) God (se) sent (apesteilas).
So, aeonous life is receiving all things that the Father gave the Son to give usJohn 17:2-3). In the age to come we inherit all things with Christ.
Rom 8:32
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
In this age we are given all things needed for life and godliness through the knowledge of Christ.
2Pe 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
These all thing are defined by John 17:3 as
And all those things were given so that (hina) those being given them should know (ginOskOsin) the only true God (ton monon alEthinon theon) and Jesus Christ (kai IEsoun Christon), whom (hOn) God (se) sent (apesteilas).
So, aeonous life is receiving all things that the Father gave the Son to give usJohn 17:2-3). In the age to come we inherit all things with Christ.
Rom 8:32
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
In this age we are given all things needed for life and godliness through the knowledge of Christ.
2Pe 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
These all thing are defined by John 17:3 as
James 1:27
Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress,
and to keep oneself unstained by the world.
What do I win?
Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress,
and to keep oneself unstained by the world.
What do I win?
James 2:22
You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected.
A perfect faith, a growing faith!
It may be better to understand the letter of James as warning against an empty faith, a dead faith.
After all Paul states below.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so
that we would walk in them.
You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected.
A perfect faith, a growing faith!
It may be better to understand the letter of James as warning against an empty faith, a dead faith.
After all Paul states below.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so
that we would walk in them.
Would anyone think Abraham and Rahab were being disobedient with what did that we read in James 2:21-25? They both were said to be justified by works. I’m not arguing for works only, as they had faith to do what they did, as without faith it is impossible to please God (Heb. 11:6). James says when they were justified by works. For Abraham, it was when he offered up Isaac on an altar (v21). By works, Abraham’s faith was made perfect (v22). Thus, had he not done that, his faith would not have been made perfect, or made complete.
For Rahab, she was justified by works when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way (v25).
And “just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” (V26).
Meaning, had Abraham and Rahab not had a faith that works (obeys), their faith would have been dead, and a dead faith can’t save nobody, just like someone has body without a spirit. Someone who doesn’t have a body without a spirit is lifeless. Dead.
James’ saying a faith that is a living faith will work (obey). It will have action. Not just lip service (v16-17).
Both Abraham and Rahab’s faith worked through/by love (Gal. 5:6).
Now, what kind of works justified them? It would not be works of the law (Eph. 2:9; Gal. 2:16). It would not be works of the flesh (Gal. 5:19-21). It would not be works of their own righteousness (Titus 3:5). It would not be works of darkness (Rom. 13:12; Eph. 5:11), etc etc.
So, what other works would be left to justify someone?
The only other type of works left that would be able to do such would have to be works (obedience) of faith, centered on doing the will OF God.
In other words, when Abraham offered Isaac on the altar, he did so by faith, and he was obeying God, thus being justified by works, as he had a faith that obeyed by having the faith to work (obey) what God required of him. And never does obedience earn anything, as obedience is the ultimate supreme test of faith in God.
Same goes for Rahab with her situation as well. She expressed her faith in her actions, being justified by works. What kind of works? It would undoubtedly have to be the same kind as Abraham was said to be justified by, as in v25, James says “Likewise also”.
Works isn’t always referring to the same kind of works. Jesus says “keepeth my works” (Rev. 2:26), which a lot of people believe that’s referring back to when He said “keep my commandments” (Jn. 14:15). Jesus would be saying keep my works (commandments). The works/commandments were not of man’s devising, but of God’s.
Man submits in humble obedience.
That is how a faith works!
— Believer08
CC: @TrustandObey @GWH, @Lamar
For Rahab, she was justified by works when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way (v25).
And “just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” (V26).
Meaning, had Abraham and Rahab not had a faith that works (obeys), their faith would have been dead, and a dead faith can’t save nobody, just like someone has body without a spirit. Someone who doesn’t have a body without a spirit is lifeless. Dead.
James’ saying a faith that is a living faith will work (obey). It will have action. Not just lip service (v16-17).
Both Abraham and Rahab’s faith worked through/by love (Gal. 5:6).
Now, what kind of works justified them? It would not be works of the law (Eph. 2:9; Gal. 2:16). It would not be works of the flesh (Gal. 5:19-21). It would not be works of their own righteousness (Titus 3:5). It would not be works of darkness (Rom. 13:12; Eph. 5:11), etc etc.
So, what other works would be left to justify someone?
The only other type of works left that would be able to do such would have to be works (obedience) of faith, centered on doing the will OF God.
In other words, when Abraham offered Isaac on the altar, he did so by faith, and he was obeying God, thus being justified by works, as he had a faith that obeyed by having the faith to work (obey) what God required of him. And never does obedience earn anything, as obedience is the ultimate supreme test of faith in God.
Same goes for Rahab with her situation as well. She expressed her faith in her actions, being justified by works. What kind of works? It would undoubtedly have to be the same kind as Abraham was said to be justified by, as in v25, James says “Likewise also”.
Works isn’t always referring to the same kind of works. Jesus says “keepeth my works” (Rev. 2:26), which a lot of people believe that’s referring back to when He said “keep my commandments” (Jn. 14:15). Jesus would be saying keep my works (commandments). The works/commandments were not of man’s devising, but of God’s.
Man submits in humble obedience.
That is how a faith works!
— Believer08
CC: @TrustandObey @GWH, @Lamar
There are innumerable good works including confession (RM 10:10b) that may manifest saving faith (RM 10:10a),
but the point of EPH 2:8-10 is that we should not put the cart before the horse.
IOW, water baptism (MT 28:19b) manifests discipleship/Spirit baptism (MT 28:19a, 1CR 12:30),
and loving fruit (GL 5:22-23) indicates saving faith (JN 13:35).
but the point of EPH 2:8-10 is that we should not put the cart before the horse.
IOW, water baptism (MT 28:19b) manifests discipleship/Spirit baptism (MT 28:19a, 1CR 12:30),
and loving fruit (GL 5:22-23) indicates saving faith (JN 13:35).
You don't have eternal life yet that was the whole point. You can still die, he that is born of the spirit moves like the wind. You cannot move like the wind so therefore you are not saved. NO ONE is saved. In Hebrews 11, it states the elders only obtained a good report, they have not received the promises. I already quoted where Jesus said he that endure to the end shall be saved. Once you are saved you will have eternal life.
The original text of the NT was written in a Koine Greek, and some in other languages. In it the grammar is quite explicit pertaining to some of the verbs. There are several instances where it describes “an action completed in the past that continues into the future.” And this applies to several verses that speak of salvation.
John 3: 3- 8
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
If you cannot move like the wind then you aint got no eternal life. Why is this simple fact so hard to believe? You are working for salvation and Jesus is not here how did you all get the reward before the prophets and the apostles?
Revelation 22: 12
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Not sure how you got eternal life but I will wait patiently until Jesus shows up to get my reward.
I always find it funny when someone cannot refute a biblical fact, they run to another language.
GOD is omnipotent. He can keep his word straight. I speak English and I can only speak English. He said his word is nigh unto me that I may do it and I believe GOD.
If I have to go find original text and learn Hebrew or Greek then we don't believe GOD can keep his word straight and that is a faith issue. It blows my mind when people bring up Hebrew and Greek texts. GOD is the one who confounded the languages, of course he will have his word translated into every language.
Isaiah 28: 9 - 11
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
If you cannot move like the wind then you aint got no eternal life. Why is this simple fact so hard to believe? You are working for salvation and Jesus is not here how did you all get the reward before the prophets and the apostles?
Revelation 22: 12
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Not sure how you got eternal life but I will wait patiently until Jesus shows up to get my reward.
I always find it funny when someone cannot refute a biblical fact, they run to another language.
GOD is omnipotent. He can keep his word straight. I speak English and I can only speak English. He said his word is nigh unto me that I may do it and I believe GOD.
If I have to go find original text and learn Hebrew or Greek then we don't believe GOD can keep his word straight and that is a faith issue. It blows my mind when people bring up Hebrew and Greek texts. GOD is the one who confounded the languages, of course he will have his word translated into every language.
Isaiah 28: 9 - 11
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
@Believer08
After much study on this topic, I have come to discover that there are two aspects of salvation that most Christians are unaware of.
If you are interested, here is my thread on the two aspects of salvation (which we need to be concerned with):
https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-believers-need-to-be-concerned-with.8284898/
Here is my other highly recommended thread on how there are two sides to the coin of faith:
https://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-two-sides-of-the-coin-of-faith.8210775/
Careful note here. Noah built the Ark as a part of his faith in Hebrews 11:7. So this is an example of the ”work of faith” (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (2 Thessalonians 1:11) (KJV) that Paul talks about. Then there is the “belief alone type faith” that Hebrews 11 refers to, as well (See Hebrews 11:3). It’s all a part of the faith package. Believing and doing everything in your Bible (that applies to us believers today) is the faith. The Bible is the faith. Granted, we cannot obey all the things in the Bible. We are not told to build an Ark. That was for Noah. We are not told to obey the Saturday Sabbath, or keep the dietary laws, and offer animal sacrifices. That was for Israel under the Old Covenant.
One of the best videos in understanding Paul is by Kerrigan Skelly.
He explains Paul’s salvation by grace through faith in light of Acts chapter 15. Most Christians are simply unable to see this. Most believers hold to “Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism“ (Which is unbiblical). Others believe in “Perpetual Works Alone Salvationism." It’s not one extreme or the other. It’s a balance of having both and giving each their proper time or due as a part of the whole umbrella of faith.
…..
After much study on this topic, I have come to discover that there are two aspects of salvation that most Christians are unaware of.
If you are interested, here is my thread on the two aspects of salvation (which we need to be concerned with):
https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-believers-need-to-be-concerned-with.8284898/
Here is my other highly recommended thread on how there are two sides to the coin of faith:
https://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-two-sides-of-the-coin-of-faith.8210775/
Careful note here. Noah built the Ark as a part of his faith in Hebrews 11:7. So this is an example of the ”work of faith” (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (2 Thessalonians 1:11) (KJV) that Paul talks about. Then there is the “belief alone type faith” that Hebrews 11 refers to, as well (See Hebrews 11:3). It’s all a part of the faith package. Believing and doing everything in your Bible (that applies to us believers today) is the faith. The Bible is the faith. Granted, we cannot obey all the things in the Bible. We are not told to build an Ark. That was for Noah. We are not told to obey the Saturday Sabbath, or keep the dietary laws, and offer animal sacrifices. That was for Israel under the Old Covenant.
One of the best videos in understanding Paul is by Kerrigan Skelly.
He explains Paul’s salvation by grace through faith in light of Acts chapter 15. Most Christians are simply unable to see this. Most believers hold to “Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism“ (Which is unbiblical). Others believe in “Perpetual Works Alone Salvationism." It’s not one extreme or the other. It’s a balance of having both and giving each their proper time or due as a part of the whole umbrella of faith.
…..
Thank you for your response. I hope your time on CC is fruitful. Many years ago I was called “Dogmatic.” I had to go to the dictionary to figure out whether I had been cussed out, or what.
There is a verse that states: 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15)
I take the plain sense of this verse to mean what it says- To study, not merely read. I do a lot of research in my hobby and I have been involved with a few great teachers whose lives reflected their love of God and were able to share some of the great truths from the Scriptures. I don’t claim any title other than a sinner saved by grace.
There is a verse that states: 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15)
I take the plain sense of this verse to mean what it says- To study, not merely read. I do a lot of research in my hobby and I have been involved with a few great teachers whose lives reflected their love of God and were able to share some of the great truths from the Scriptures. I don’t claim any title other than a sinner saved by grace.