Independent Women

[LifelongLearner]

Dangit, ya just HAD to mention the MBTI didn't ya? I'm a total nerd for that stuff, it has helped me understand myself and others better.

That was one of my reasons for starting this thread: to understand better. Anything that seems to elicit a strong collective response is fascinating to me, especially if it's not something I personally see as a big deal. I love poking into the hidden reasons why we think, react, or relate the way that we do.

Maybe you could start a thread about MBTI or personality types in general?

Why am i not surprised?! I'm one of those people who's a very obvious ENTP, but like most of us, don't have the iconoclastic tendencies we're smeared with so often. We're considered to be the joker/wild card in the pack, usually because we're the first to smell something iffy blowing in the wind. Live and let live is probably the best term to define us, with an occasionally strong whiff of or else. I seriously resent it if someone sets out to wind me up and doesn't heed my courteous warnings, they're inclined to wind up wishing they'd listened but thankfully, that's very rare.

I'm guessing you're an ENFP or even ENTP yourself, it can be really hard to tell us apart as they have so much crossover. Personally think such typing only has limited use unless there are at least several, consistently strong results. Posting a link to a site which has an excellent test and analysis, it's 401!! questions long. Will try to do the test myself now too but Dreamer, my little cat gets aereated when she thinks my attention too awol for her liking.

Might be a while before i can post another comment:

https://personalitymax.com/personality-test/

 

[LifelongLearner]

Think you might like the Political Compass test too, it's been around since the early days. My little Princess is getting really grumpy, i'd better give her some serious attention but here's the link: https://www.politicalcompass.org/test/en?page=1

 

[LifelongLearner]

Right, managed to quickly sort my political compass test, will go for the biggie test later: https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2?ec=-8.38&soc=-7.59

 

[Snackersmom]

Right, managed to quickly sort my political compass test, will go for the biggie test later: https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2?ec=-8.38&soc=-7.59

Lol that's glorious.... you are a woman of action! But how bout we start a different thread and talk about these things there, I think people will be more inclined to comment in that case?

Are you starting the new thread, or shall I?

 

[LifelongLearner]

Lol that's glorious.... you are a woman of action! But how bout we start a different thread and talk about these things there, I think people will be more inclined to comment in that case?

Are you starting the new thread, or shall I?

Bless you, that idea rocks to me, think you should sort it, you seem well known and people like you. Hopefully i can look in later on, it's Friday eve here and will be going offline for a while.

Blessings and hugs for now, see you soon

 

[LifelongLearner]

Lol that's glorious.... you are a woman of action! But how bout we start a different thread and talk about these things there, I think people will be more inclined to comment in that case?

Are you starting the new thread, or shall I?

Posting a link to a track by one of my fave bands for near 35 years, which you might like. You'd better like actually!!

Curve - Coast Is Clear

 

[Lynx]

That was another theme I was picking up on from the replies.... the more comfortable a person is with their own singleness, the more accepting they seem to be of that same trait in others. I have met plenty of women who wanted to be needed as well.

Interesting

Yeah... To me, needing somebody to need you seems like insecurity. Like they are afraid their spouse will leave them if they don't need them for something. Or to put it another way, the spouse's need for them is seen as kind of like a leash.

 

[Lynx]

Ooh, a little surprised by the surprised face. When it comes to those tests, i'm ALWAYS a top end ENTP, the rationals, rational type. It's become stronger as i've aged, still very tolerant but don't suffer fools so gladly now. Know you'll understand what i mean, think you might be similar.

My was for the cavalier way you spoke about your divorce.

Usually when people talk about their own divorce they express strong emotion. Usually as in almost always. Like, consistently enough that when someone does speak of his own divorce in a casual manner it causes me to do a double take like I just saw an emu in the turning lane downtown.

 

[LifelongLearner]

My was for the cavalier way you spoke about your divorce.

Usually when people talk about their own divorce they express strong emotion. Usually as in almost always. Like, consistently enough that when someone does speak of his own divorce in a casual manner it causes me to do a double take like I just saw an emu in the turning lane downtown.

BBBbbbbut..... doesn't it count for something we remained friends and his new wife and me are friends too?????? Obviously, i wasn't a believer then but it was a civilised thing, we came to the conclusion splitting up friendly then, was better than a bitter, nasty divorce later on. He'd developed athletes foot too Lynx!!!!

Looking in to see if Snacker'sMom has sorted the new post yet, bit early but hey! Glory! There's an emu on the sitting room balcony, friend of yours Lynx? Hope you have a great eve, see you soon

 

[Lynx]

BBBbbbbut..... doesn't it count for something we remained friends and his new wife and me are friends too?????? Obviously, i wasn't a believer then but it was a civilised thing, we came to the conclusion splitting up friendly then, was better than a bitter, nasty divorce later on. He'd developed athletes foot too Lynx!!!!

Looking in to see if Snacker'sMom has sorted the new post yet, bit early but hey! Glory! There's an emu on the sitting room balcony, friend of yours Lynx? Hope you have a great eve, see you soon

Me? Friends with an emu? Well I never! As if any self-respecting feline would be caught consorting with a birdbrain... I mean an avian.

I do remember one comedian who was talking about having a severe peanut allergy and a boyfriend. She and the boyfriend broke up, amicably. A few months later she saw him at the store and asked, so what's it like being able to eat peanut butter again? He replied, oh awesome! We should have broken up long ago!

She said she couldn't blame him. Peanut butter is awesome. No way she can compete with that. If your boyfriend has to give up peanut butter to be with you, you'd better be bringing a lot to the relationship.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Me? Friends with an emu? Well I never! As if any self-respecting feline would be caught consorting with a birdbrain... I mean an avian.

I do remember one comedian who was talking about having a severe peanut allergy and a boyfriend. She and the boyfriend broke up, amicably. A few months later she saw him at the store and asked, so what's it like being able to eat peanut butter again? He replied, oh awesome! We should have broken up long ago!

She said she couldn't blame him. Peanut butter is awesome. No way she can compete with that. If your boyfriend has to give up peanut butter to be with you, you'd better be bringing a lot to the relationship.

We split up a little while after the world had a nervous breakdown but we were getting there for a while. Think we needed all the action/being a team thing we had when we were bringing up our children, we didn't even go out on the motorbikes together anymore. Just fizzled out, very amicably. it wasn't a sad thing at all and think we like each other more now than at the end of our marriage.

Sounds similar to the comedian and her boyfriend, i don't see anything wrong with breaking up amicably when you don't have commitments such as bringing up a family any longer. Don't think i'd have started this spiritual journey either if we were still together, really think it was the right thing for us friend.

Ooh, looks like there's a couple of things i need to check here, Blessings and all that's good for now.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Ooh! Forgot to do the print screen for my result before creating the link, some might not have scrolled down to it:
https://www.politicalcompass.org/yourpoliticalcompass_js?ec=-8.38&soc=-7.59

Sadly, some people equate being socially conscious/fair with devil worship. However, a lot of the problems we have now is because people have forgotten the wonderful advice, love your neighbour as yourself. Let alone first they came for..... etc.

 

[Snackersmom]

Sadly, some people equate being socially conscious/fair with devil worship. However, a lot of the problems we have now is because people have forgotten the wonderful advice, love your neighbour as yourself. Let alone first they came for..... etc.

Lol slow yourself down m' lady, THAT is another discussion topic unto itself as well! You are personable and enjoy chatting, start a thread Missy! Lol

I probably won't get to the MBTI topic for a bit, running behind with work and have a busy week ahead. I won't forget though!

 

[LifelongLearner]

Lol slow yourself down m' lady, THAT is another discussion topic unto itself as well! You are personable and enjoy chatting, start a thread Missy! Lol

I probably won't get to the MBTI topic for a bit, running behind with work and have a busy week ahead. I won't forget though!

"You are personable and enjoy chatting"
Ditto you Sm, definitely seem the sort of person i view as a soul sister, hope you enjoyed that playlist too. Sure we'll have many interesting chats, we both have enough brain cells to throw a big, fun party.
No rush, this week looks livelier than i originally thought too, blessings, hugs and all that's good for now.

 

[Smoke]

What I am kinda gathering from the responses is that its not so much the independence that men dislike, but rather when women announce it/make a big deal about it? Like, be independent but just don't tell anyone? Lol.

There are a lot of insightful responses that answered your question, and I'm sure there are some elements of truth in your succinct description. For me personally, I believe feminism has infected the church and is poisoning the mindset that women need to be in a perpetual state of independence from man or at the very least, on-par in authority as him.

If I had a daughter, I would teach her how to be independent (self-reliant) but understand the importance of teaching her when to give that independence up. Being a husband/wife is a righteous desire/calling that requires a leadership/submissive dynamic for it to function as God intended. You charge that society has given a negative connotation to women being independent (and you're not entirely wrong), but I charge society (both inside and outside the church) have given a negative connotation to being submissive. It's more about knowing when one needs to be independent and when one needs to submit. It's not as paradoxical if we use the bible as a guide.

 

[Smoke]

"Never let a man do anything for you they never do anything unless there's something it it for them." This sound bitter but it's actually good advise. The ones that are offish are probably divorcee. woman that have been hurt so all men are to blame. Also woman don't tend to remarry as often as men do. Also Independence sometimes comes as a result of a divorce. I agree on your other points.

You bring up an interesting stat. While women have many suiters in their youth, it starts to almost balance out for men as they age (especially for widowers). As women hit about middle-age, they don't require nearly as many check marks as they did in their youth and men aren't quite at the disadvantage level they were in their youth. There are a multitude of reasons for this, but I guess I shouldn't derail the thread to discuss them in detail.

 

[LifelongLearner]

There are a lot of insightful responses that answered your question, and I'm sure there are some elements of truth in your succinct description. For me personally, I believe feminism has infected the church and is poisoning the mindset that women need to be in a perpetual state of independence from man or at the very least, on-par in authority as him.

If I had a daughter, I would teach her how to be independent (self-reliant) but understand the importance of teaching her when to give that independence up. Being a husband/wife is a righteous desire/calling that requires a leadership/submissive dynamic for it to function as God intended. You charge that society has given a negative connotation to women being independent (and you're not entirely wrong), but I charge society (both inside and outside the church) have given a negative connotation to being submissive. It's more about knowing when one needs to be independent and when one needs to submit. It's not as paradoxical if we use the bible as a guide.

See what you're saying some, personally the vive la différence sort myself. I'm much more comfortable floating ideas than taking a leadership role, as i can see see so many sides to a situation at times, making a decision can be tough. Whereas men are more likely not to look before they leap, horses for courses are needed.

We're a powerful combination when we team up instead of fighting each other, which is how i think it should be,

 

[keepingthingsreal]

There are a lot of insightful responses that answered your question, and I'm sure there are some elements of truth in your succinct description. For me personally, I believe feminism has infected the church and is poisoning the mindset that women need to be in a perpetual state of independence from man or at the very least, on-par in authority as him.

If I had a daughter, I would teach her how to be independent (self-reliant) but understand the importance of teaching her when to give that independence up. Being a husband/wife is a righteous desire/calling that requires a leadership/submissive dynamic for it to function as God intended. You charge that society has given a negative connotation to women being independent (and you're not entirely wrong), but I charge society (both inside and outside the church) have given a negative connotation to being submissive. It's more about knowing when one needs to be independent and when one needs to submit. It's not as paradoxical if we use the bible as a guide.

Hi, Smoke.

I previously commented that I was done with this thread, but I feel the need to add something to what you said here.

Seeing how you have rightly mentioned such words as "authority" and "leadership," I would like to add that men need to be taught what these words truly mean in relation to marriage.

When it comes to marriage, Christ and the church are our example.

In the same manner in which Christ sacrificially laid his life down for the church, a husband needs to be ready to do the same for his wife.

In the same manner in which Christ sanctifies the church through the washing of water by the word of God, a husband needs to be ready to do the same for his wife.

In the same manner in which Christ nourishes and cherishes the church as his own body, a husband needs to be ready to do the same for his wife.

In other words, authority and leadership are not to wrongly be equated with dominance or abuse, and, sad to say, in many marriages across the globe, that is how these things play out. Jesus, the Bridegroom, washed his disciples', the Bride's, feet, and he was their Lord. We must teach men to follow his example.

If I may be blunt as a man myself, then I would have to say that a very, very low percentage of men on this planet are presently ready and/or equipped to be the types of godly husbands God has ordained them to be. As a direct result, there are probably many women who cling to their independence.

In any case, as Jesus said, "unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required" (Luke 12:48).

If men truly want to walk in positions of authority and leadership within the confines of their own marriages, then they had better first learn what this truly entails and how accountable they will be before God in relation to properly walking in the same.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Hi, Smoke.

I previously commented that I was done with this thread, but I feel the need to add something to what you said here.

Seeing how you have rightly mentioned such words as "authority" and "leadership," I would like to add that men need to be taught what these words truly mean in relation to marriage.

When it comes to marriage, Christ and the church are our example.

In the same manner in which Christ sacrificially laid his life down for the church, a husband needs to be ready to do the same for his wife.

In the same manner in which Christ sanctifies the church through the washing of water by the word of God, a husband needs to be ready to do the same for his wife.

In the same manner in which Christ nourishes and cherishes the church as his own body, a husband needs to be ready to do the same for his wife.

In other words, authority and leadership are not to wrongly be equated with dominance or abuse, and, sad to say, in many marriages across the globe, that is how these things play out. Jesus, the Bridegroom, washed his disciples', the Bride's, feet, and he was their Lord. We must teach men to follow his example.

If I may be blunt as a man myself, then I would have to say that a very, very low percentage of men on this planet are presently ready and/or equipped to be the types of godly husbands God has ordained them to be. As a direct result, there are probably many women who cling to their independence.

In any case, as Jesus said, "unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required" (Luke 12:48).

If men truly want to walk in positions of authority and leadership within the confines of their own marriages, then they had better first learn what this truly entails and how accountable they will be before God in relation to properly walking in the same.

Agree with most of that for sure, i think we were designed and created as a team with enough differences to make us interesting and useful to each other. Think most of us strongly like certain people because we have more in common with them and value my men friends as much as my women friends. Their perspective on some things has been invaluable to me at times.

 

[Smoke]

Hi, Smoke.

I previously commented that I was done with this thread, but I feel the need to add something to what you said here.

Seeing how you have rightly mentioned such words as "authority" and "leadership," I would like to add that men need to be taught what these words truly mean in relation to marriage.

When it comes to marriage, Christ and the church are our example.

In the same manner in which Christ sacrificially laid his life down for the church, a husband needs to be ready to do the same for his wife.

In the same manner in which Christ sanctifies the church through the washing of water by the word of God, a husband needs to be ready to do the same for his wife.

In the same manner in which Christ nourishes and cherishes the church as his own body, a husband needs to be ready to do the same for his wife.

In other words, authority and leadership are not to wrongly be equated with dominance or abuse, and, sad to say, in many marriages across the globe, that is how these things play out. Jesus, the Bridegroom, washed his disciples', the Bride's, feet, and he was their Lord. We must teach men to follow his example.

If I may be blunt as a man myself, then I would have to say that a very, very low percentage of men on this planet are presently ready and/or equipped to be the types of godly husbands God has ordained them to be. As a direct result, there are probably many women who cling to their independence.

In any case, as Jesus said, "unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required" (Luke 12:48).

If men truly want to walk in positions of authority and leadership within the confines of their own marriages, then they had better first learn what this truly entails and how accountable they will be before God in relation to properly walking in the same.

I appreciate your response brother. I agree with most of what you wrote but with a few disagreements.

If I grant that it's a "very low percentage of men" that are ready/equipped to be godly husbands, we still see the same "independent" mindset within marriages (inside and outside the church). The commandments given to husbands and wives are not conditional if they are "ready and equipped" to do so, it's unconditional. So even if they fall short to the glory of God, the fact they are already in a marriage would entail they are obliged to their assigned roles. In other words, a wife doesn't get to say, "I'll submit to you only if I agree with it." That's not what the word means.

Furthermore, you give the cause-effect of unworthy/unequipped men being the reason why women cling to independence, and while I believe it is A reason (not THE reason), I would just point to the rise of feminism in the US to the rise in divorce rates. It's sort of the chicken or the egg discussion, but if we only look at marriages, we see the influence of feminism decaying what God has designed for our benefit. Feminism is multifaceted and is a broader scope to look at which explains why we are in the current state we are in.

The beginning of your post (where we agree entirely), I would just add that this is why it's important to vet the person they want to engage in a 3-way covenant in marriage with. I try to imagine how women must feel in having to submit to the husband's authority/leadership and it's very difficult. For this reason, it's our responsibility that we choose someone who personifies the characteristics God has called for. The unfortunate part is that they could actually personify those characteristics/attributes today, but there is no guarantee they will do so tomorrow.