Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Genez]

Yup, and He knew that was going to happen. Thus take the cup away so He wouldn't have to endure the separation. As far as being tortured Jesus had to resist healing Himself so being worried about something He was in full control of doesn't make sense imo.

You keep seeing Jesus in his post resurrected glorified state.
He denied himself of such a state of being!
He had to, to die in our place.

If he had not made himself to be as a man?
Walk into a limited state, as a man now finds himself.
There would have been no need for him to pray to the Father
and be empowered by the Holy Spirit.

 

[SaysWhat]

You keep seeing Jesus in his post resurrected glorified state.
He denied himself of such a state of being!
He had to, to die in our place.

If he had not made himself to be as a man?
Walk into a limited state, as a man now finds himself.
There would have been no need for him to pray to the Father
and be empowered by the Holy Spirit.

Denying is resisting, He could of climb down from the cross like one of the thieves ask.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Not the only person who knew Greek and Hebrew.
He was only one of a few qualified to be able to.

While at Bible college, RB Thieme was recommended to me by a professor, Stan Ashby,.
He taught ancient languages at a Bible college.
Professor Ashby had been associated with Harvard during WWII.

I was praising some recorded messages I heard by Professor Ashby, and he kept telling me he got it from someone named Thieme.
At the time, I was not learning from RB Thieme.

And, if a pastor is doing an excellent job. His congregation should love him!
And, some must hate. It goes with the territory.

I used to work for a world renown Chef. I worked the front of the house. His kitchen and staff consisted of a few students of a Bible college down the street. Some of them began giving me flak after learning I chose to follow Thieme's teachings.

The chef and I were discussing the situation during a quiet time in the kitchen.
I explained how Thieme has the skill to extract from the Greek and Hebrew meanings that too many translations avoid, or water down.

I then gave him an example of something Thieme translated from the OT.

What did the chef do? (he had created the menu for the Queen of England for the bicentennial celebration in Boston)..
He walked over to a shelf in his kitchen and pulled down a book. It was his Luther translation in German. He read it...

Guess what... He looked up that passage I gave him and read it as translated by Luther into German.
After pondering what Luther wrote, he then told me.. "Your pastor is right."

And, he added from his own observation that those who do not like Thieme were jealous of him.
He said he saw the same thing go on in his profession. And, he had worked with the very best.

And, to my amazement and joy. Thieme was the only teacher my Jewish father would listen to with respect.
Same parent that wanted me deprogrammed after learning I chose Christ.

So much for that.

Some win....and.... some lose.
It's all according to how we choose.

grace and peace!

Right, time to really sort a nasty, pernicious troll like you out. Maybe you do have another friend here but you don't yet understand that like most people, you have a distinctive way of expressing yourself. It's actually obvious just one person posts at least the majority of your comments and supposed replies.

You don't come across as even spiritually minded, let alone the thunderer of truth image you want to project. It's very possible you are troubled/have issues in some way but you're so unpleasant, it's hard to feel sympathy for you.

 

[SaysWhat]

Right, time to really sort a nasty, pernicious troll like you out. Maybe you do have another friend here but you don't yet understand that like most people, you have a distinctive way of expressing yourself. It's actually obvious just one person posts at least the majority of your comments and supposed replies.

You don't come across as even spiritually minded, let alone the thunderer of truth image you want to project. It's very possible you are troubled/have issues in some way but you're so unpleasant, it's hard to feel sympathy for you.

Hmm that's over the top.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Hmm that's over the top.

Take a look at the comments of his it's in response to, i'd call it harsh but realistic. He needs to be told such behaviour is unacceptable, he criticises so many but thinks he should be treated with unmerited respect.

Let alone the way he derails posts and discussions, it's bad for him as well as others letting him get away with it. His behaviour is unacceptable.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Take a look at the comments of his it's in response to, i'd call it harsh but realistic. He needs to be told such behaviour is unacceptable, he criticises so many but thinks he should be treated with unmerited respect.

Let alone the way he derails posts and discussions, it's bad for him as well as others letting him get away with it. His behaviour is unacceptable.

I won't be calling him out so strongly on other people's posts, that's their call, not mine. However, i've told him to stop trolling on my posts several times now and he persists in playing the fool, he's his own worst enemy.

 

[GWH]

Rather than hopping on the back of another? Maybe? Teach it yourself.

I do; just did.
Happy now? :^)

 

[GWH]

Not the only person who knew Greek and Hebrew.
He was only one of a few qualified to be able to.

While at Bible college, RB Thieme was recommended to me by a professor, Stan Ashby,.
He taught ancient languages at a Bible college.
Professor Ashby had been associated with Harvard during WWII.

I was praising some recorded messages I heard by Professor Ashby, and he kept telling me he got it from someone named Thieme.
At the time, I was not learning from RB Thieme.

And, if a pastor is doing an excellent job. His congregation should love him!
And, some must hate. It goes with the territory.

I used to work for a world renown Chef. I worked the front of the house. His kitchen and staff consisted of a few students of a Bible college down the street. Some of them began giving me flak after learning I chose to follow Thieme's teachings.

The chef and I were discussing the situation during a quiet time in the kitchen.
I explained how Thieme has the skill to extract from the Greek and Hebrew meanings that too many translations avoid, or water down.

I then gave him an example of something Thieme translated from the OT.

What did the chef do? (he had created the menu for the Queen of England for the bicentennial celebration in Boston)..
He walked over to a shelf in his kitchen and pulled down a book. It was his Luther translation in German. He read it...

Guess what... He looked up that passage I gave him and read it as translated by Luther into German.
After pondering what Luther wrote, he then told me.. "Your pastor is right."

And, he added from his own observation that those who do not like Thieme were jealous of him.
He said he saw the same thing go on in his profession. And, he had worked with the very best.

And, to my amazement and joy. Thieme was the only teacher my Jewish father would listen to with respect.
Same parent that wanted me deprogrammed after learning I chose Christ.

So much for that.

Some win....and.... some lose.
It's all according to how we choose.

grace and peace!

Again, I learned from RBT, and I appreciate his ministry, but I can say the same about William Hendricks.

I do agree that systematic preachers are a rare breed, and I have not been able to find one where I live.

I suspect the reason is because it takes a strong and dynamic leader to persuade people in the pew that LGW is more important than jokes, stories, emotional music and in some cases even extended prayer and home fellowship groups.

 

[sawdust]

These are my intuitions.

I would suggest that it is the spirit of a man that gives him life, and in the first creation the life/spirit is in the body, in the blood; that is, it enlivens the blood which enlivens the body. I would suggest that that blood-enlivening spirit is innocent and clean at birth, but our departing from innocence later in life muddies/confuses/pollutes/corrupts the blood-enlivening spirit with a degree of bias toward self-reliance rather than faith toward God. In the new birth God puts a new pure and incorruptible spirit into our soul, which enlivens our mind with revelation truth, and enables us to subdue the spirit in our blood, if we so choose.

We need that new incorruptible spirit because the original blood-enlivening spirit is weaken and handicapped by our flesh, so that we often cannot do the good we want to do. That's why we need a new spirit even though we already have one. Yes, we get both spirits from God. If we do not have an upgraded spirit, when our original spirit leaves our blood, we die physically and our soul goes with it to hades. to await judgment. However, of we have an upgraded spirit as well, then when our upgraded spirit leaves our body, our soul goes with it into God's presence.

Ok. I see things very different to you. Guess that is why I was having trouble understanding what you were saying.

I appreciate the discussion though and for your time to explain what you think.

 

[sawdust]

Not sure why anyone would dispute the need for sufficient authority or law enforcement to preclude crime and chaos.

Not sure what definition was not even close to perfect, so please feel free to share either hers or yours or both,
if you would like me to opine about that point.

Not really, her definition tended to drift over time. My initial response was because she said freedom is unrestrained and unfettered which, it is not. Even the Lord Himself is not without restraint, He is bound to His nature/character.

I suggest you go back and read through the thread if your that interested. I've moved on.

 

[sawdust]

Denying is resisting, He could of climb down from the cross like one of the thieves ask.

Not if He wanted to fulfill the Father's will .... and He did.

If He had climbed down, no-one would be saved.

He stayed for the joy that laid ahead.

Hebrews 12:2
looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

[GWH]

Not really, her definition tended to drift over time. My initial response was because she said freedom is unrestrained and unfettered which, it is not. Even the Lord Himself is not without restraint, He is bound to His nature/character.

I suggest you go back and read through the thread if your that interested. I've moved on.

Well, it takes two to tangle and sometimes three to untangle, so we don't have the numbers.

I agree that volition regarding salvation is within limit the limit of seeking God or not.

I also agree that God cannot not be God/I AM. Nor can He do the absurd, because His Nature is Logos.

 

[TMS]

Not if He wanted to fulfill the Father's will .... and He did.

If He had climbed down, no-one would be saved.

He stayed for the joy that laid ahead.

Hebrews 12:2
looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

So Jesus had the choice of following the Father or not. The choice to endure or not.
He had the freedom of choice to take the sins of world or not.

Thankfully He choose to do The Father's will.

We have free will to choose who we serve.

We can serve self and choose to be selfish. Or we can serve Jesus and do His will. We all have this freedom.

 

[TMS]

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

We choose who we yield ourselves to...

Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

I see free choice here...

 

[sawdust]

So Jesus had the choice of following the Father or not. The choice to endure or not.
He had the freedom of choice to take the sins of world or not.

Thankfully He choose to do The Father's will.

We have free will to choose who we serve.

We can serve self and choose to be selfish. Or we can serve Jesus and do His will. We all have this freedom.

I most probably should have said at the end so there was no misunderstanding ..

"His choice, made from His own free will."

 

[LifelongLearner]

Thought i'd look in before getting a decent sleep tonight and glad i did, wiping tears of laughter from my eyes. Genez/sawdust is shameless but got to give him credit for going into attempted whitewashing mode. Also known as i did say that but it isn't what i meant to say mode.

I'm no grudge holder but it's all there in your comments, you did. However if you just stop the bossy/control freak stuff on my posts, i probably still won't like or trust you but will treat you accordingly.

 

[Genez]

Yup, and He knew that was going to happen. Thus take the cup away so He wouldn't have to endure the separation. As far as being tortured Jesus had to resist healing Himself so being worried about something He was in full control of doesn't make sense imo.

Jesus was shown what was to happen, by the Father revealing it to him in the Spirit's power.

Just like the Father can show you something that is to happen in the future.

 

[Genez]

Again, I learned from RBT, and I appreciate his ministry, but I can say the same about William Hendricks.

I know nothing about William Hendricks...

RBT taught six nights a week.
He studied eight hours a day....

All his teachings, which were faithfully recorded, are still being offered free of charge. No money asked.

When I was starting out listening to his messages, I had to stop and say to myself....

"I just learned more in one hour than I had in three years Bible college (with a full load)."

No one I found teaches like him. Some have even told me...
"Never heard anyone teach like this before."
But, then again. He taught mostly advanced doctrinal teachings.
Most Christians expect the baby stuff, or tolerate slightly above.

God has raised up a teacher for those who have a need deeper than the mainstream offerings.

So be it.

 

[GWH]

I know nothing about William Hendricks...

RBT taught six nights a week.
He studied eight hours a day....

All his teachings, which were faithfully recorded, are still being offered free of charge. No money asked.

When I was starting out listening to his messages, I had to stop and say to myself....

"I just learned more in one hour than I had in three years Bible college (with a full load)."

No one I found teaches like him. Some have even told me...
"Never heard anyone teach like this before."
But, then again. He taught mostly advanced doctrinal teachings.
Most Christians expect the baby stuff, or tolerate slightly above.

God has raised up a teacher for those who have a need deeper than the mainstream offerings.

So be it.

Hendricks was the equivalent of Thieme, but he taught five days a week and sounded like he studied every off hour.
You did have to be a paying student at SWBTS.
I had the same experience of learning more per minute than from others in hours.
I aspired to be like Hendricks, but I lacked the memory required for orals
(an example of limited free will. Realizing that I was forgetting much I had studied
so hard to learn is one reason I put a lot of it on my website as my personal external memory :^)

 

[Genez]

Hendricks was the equivalent of Thieme, but he taught five days a week and sounded like he studied every off hour.
You did have to be a paying student at SWBTS.
I had the same experience of learning more per minute than from others in hours.
I aspired to be like Hendricks, but I lacked the memory required for orals
(an example of limited free will. Realizing that I was forgetting much I had studied
so hard to learn is one reason I put a lot of it on my website as my personal external memory :^)

Well... enjoy then.

The Lord will evaluate each one of us.

Then, we will learn the truth about matters concerning our preferences and choices.