Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

If He did not come with the same nature as you and me then He is not our example, He had a huge advantage.

Being 100% God I would say gives Jesus a decided advantage for sure.

And that is a distinct difference from the standpoint of Him being able to overcome His
human will to do the will of God. All these noisy Pelagians we have here put the natural
man on the same footing as Jesus in that regard. They really ought to know better.

 

[sawdust]

I'm not held accountable for other people's sins.

You're not held accountable for your own sins, they were nailed to the Cross. If the Lord held any of us accountable, none of us would see life. He did this so the issue of evil, the source of all sin (Jm.1:15), could be addressed .. "who do you say I am?" (Matt.16:15)

No-one is condemned on the basis of their sin but on the basis of their rejection of Christ which leads to self serving desire.

John 3:18
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

You were not born a sinner because you sinned, you were born a sinner because of Adam's sin. We all inherited a corruption in our flesh by virtue of being "in Adam". We all got our flesh from Adam, unlike Christ, who had no earthly father but instead God the Father prepared a body for Him.

Hebrews 10:5
Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: “Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, But a body You have prepared for Me.

This is why Christ was born without sin, he had no corruption in His flesh. Did that give Him an advantage over us? Maybe, but He certainly had no advantage over Adam. They both had the same level playing field. Christ chose not to sin, Adam did otherwise. Even if, by some miracle, we did not commit any personal sins, we still would be sinners because we are born wrong. Sin is lawlessness and there is another law, one that has no regard for anything but self, working in our flesh. It is this corruption which, the Lord God can have nothing to do with, hence we are born devoid of spiritual life having the consequences of Adam's sin imputed to us. That law guarantees we commit our own personal sins but the Cross guarantees it can never be used as an excuse.

Romans 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 5:18-19 ~ Just as one trespass brought condemnation for all men, so also one act of righteousness brought justification and life for all men. For just as through the disobedience of the one man (Adam) the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man (Jesus Christ) the many will be made righteous.

 

[SaysWhat]

Jesus was fully human and thus tempted to sin and not desiring to suffer,
but he chose not to sin and willed to die for humanity's sins because it was necessary to accomplish salvation.

Both are the same will.

John 6:40
For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

 

[SaysWhat]

Jesus was fully human and thus tempted to sin and not desiring to suffer,
.

I don't believe Jesus was desiring

 

[Genez]

Both are the same will.

John 6:40
For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Both wills added up to being a team of one 'harmonious wills' in agreement.


Yet... His will was freely His own.

“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; ​

yet not my will, but yours be done.” Lk 22:42​

.......

 

[GWH]

Original sin is wrong because it excuses the sinner.

The sinner knows he cannot be to blame for his sins if he is born a sinner and sin is unavoidable. The sinner is compelled to excuse himself (secretly at least) if he really believes that he sins because of an inborn sin nature. If he really believes that he is born a sinner and that he cannot help but sin because of inborn sin, he must and he will excuse himself, even if only secretly.

This doctrine gives the sinner an excuse for his sins, but the bible states that God does not excuse sin.

Correct. A better title for this thread would be "Can we really exercise faith = free will sufficiently to choose either to seek salvation or to ignore God's grace and thus be morally accountable for the primary sin of disbelief in God's Word/belief in the devil/s lie that Adam and Eve committed first/at the beginning?"

 

[SaysWhat]

Both wills added up to being a team of one 'harmonious wills' in agreement.


Yet... His will was freely His own.

“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; ​

yet not my will, but yours be done.” Lk 22:42​

.......

And the cup wasn't taken away, God can't take away his own cup He came to be.

 

[SaysWhat]

Both wills added up to being a team of one 'harmonious wills' in agreement.


Yet... His will was freely His own.

“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; ​

yet not my will, but yours be done.” Lk 22:42​

.......

Imagine having the ability to heal wounds or even prevent the skin from being pierced yet that is what Jesus did.

 

[SaysWhat]

Both wills added up to being a team of one 'harmonious wills' in agreement.

.......

Perfect harmony is without any hesitation. Can't have Perfect harmony except for that time Jesus was worried about be beaten

 

[Genez]

And the cup wasn't taken away, God can't take away his own cup He came to be.

Do that again, and make sense....
No poetry, please.

It was not an answer.

 

[BobCarabbio]

Many have probably realised i don't think we can exercise free will, even think it's impossible for us to. Won't explain why i think it's an impossiblility for us yet, think it's useful for some to express why they think it exists first.

I have no doubt we have and can make choices throughout life, however, think our options are far more restricted than most realise. What do you think?

NOBODY is "Born Again" unless they're first CONVICTED OF SIN by the Holy Spirit. However, REPENTING of SIN and coming to God IN FAITH (that the SIN OFFERING OF JESUS applies to them as enabled by God (Ron 10:17) is a FREE WILL DECISION.

 

[SaysWhat]

Do that again, and make sense....
No poetry, please.

It was not an answer.

The cup of fury, does that make sense?.

Isaiah 51:22
Thus says your Lord, the LORD, even your God, who defends His people: “See, I have removed from your hand the cup of staggering. From that goblet, the cup of My fury, you will never drink again.

 

[Genez]

Perfect harmony is without any hesitation. Can't have Perfect harmony except for that time Jesus was worried about be beaten

Jesus needed to fully experience the human reaction of the situation that he was placed under. Even experience the human considerations that might come... Otherwise, He could not be our perfect high priest.

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses,
but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.

 

[SaysWhat]

Jesus needed to fully experience the human reaction of the situation that he was placed under. Even experience the human considerations that might come... Otherwise, He could not be our perfect high priest.

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses,
but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.

Indeed but the cup is about being separated from the light not the physical pain.

Isaiah 53:11

After the anguish of His soul, He will see the light of life and be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant will justify many, and He will bear their iniquities.

 

[Genez]

Indeed but the cup is about being separated from the light not the physical pain.

Isaiah 53:11

After the anguish of His soul, He will see the light of life and be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant will justify many, and He will bear their iniquities.

Keep in mind.
God is light.
God is the Light of Life!

Jesus became separated from the Father and Holy Spirit when our sins were being poured on his body while hanging on the Cross.

That is why he he kept on screamed out.... "MY GOD! MY GOD! Why have you forsaken me?"

grace and peace!

 

[PaulThomson]

You wrote all that?
Because you missed a single point???

Here again....

I cited the following...

He said to another man, “Follow me.”​

​

But he replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”​

​

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead,​

but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.” Luke 9:59-60​

So, your response?



The detail you missed somehow? How could you????

Jesus was telling that man...
Those who were to bury his PHYSICALLY dead father?
Were, to be SPIRITUALLY dead relatives.

It's not that complicated.
It only takes a little analysis.
Nothing too deep....


Have a nice Day.

Yes, Jesus says they are spiritually dead; but where does Jesus say they were born spiritually dead?

 

[LifelongLearner]

Yes, Jesus says they are spiritually dead; but where does Jesus say they were born spiritually dead?

Personally can't take Genez seriously, i haven't yet seen a comment of his/hers that is worth wasting time on. Unsure if they deliberately provoke people, lack self control, or are immature/young.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Keep in mind.
God is light.
God is the Light of Life!

Jesus became separated from the Father and Holy Spirit when our sins were being poured on his body while hanging on the Cross.

That is why he he kept on screamed out.... "MY GOD! MY GOD! Why have you forsaken me?"

grace and peace!

God doesn't go for half measures, for His purposes it was necessary for the sacrifice to reach the nth degree. Just picture the mud Satan could sling if it didn't.
Jesus expected no less, he knew it would be the ultimate suffering, don't think it's possible to completely understand and appreciate what he did.

 

[GWH]

Personally can't take Genez seriously, i haven't yet seen a comment of his/hers that is worth wasting time on. Unsure if they deliberately provoke people, lack self control, or are immature/young.

I guess provoking might be synonymous with trolling.