Independent Women

[JamieJ3]

Seriously though, I'm not on the market right now so this thread isn't about trying to snag a dude. .

If you're "not on the market" is it safe to say your current guy is okay with you as you are? If so, then why think too much over it? If not, maybe that's the contention and why you're asking. Unless you just mean you're not allowing yourself to date now and there is no guy. "Off the market" could mean multiple things. So could "independent" as already stated.

I don't think it's a "one-size-fits-all" sort of answer to this. Simply put, the right person will work well with you.

 

[bluejean_bible]

My experience is secure men are not afraid of independent women. There is a vast difference between independence and being needy.

Needy will get tiring for both parties after awhile.

When God made eve he took her part,his rib,from that strong structure that guards the heart and lungs. The midpoint of the man.

And wedded they are one.

 

[JamieJ3]

"Never let a man do anything for you they never do anything unless there's something it it for them." This sound bitter but it's actually good advise.

I think that's terrible advice. Some God-loving men are very genuine in their words and actions. I understand why you'd be cautious though.
Also, Jesus walked the Earth as a man.

 

[Lynx]

What I am kinda gathering from the responses is that its not so much the independence that men dislike, but rather when women announce it/make a big deal about it? 🤔 Like, be independent but just don't tell anyone? Lol. 😆

Yeah. Basically.

Kind of like being cool. If you have to tell people you are cool, you are not cool. Truly cool people don't need to announce it.

 

[Snackersmom]

If you're "not on the market" is it safe to say your current guy is okay with you as you are? If so, then why think too much over it? If not, maybe that's the contention and why you're asking. Unless you just mean you're not allowing yourself to date now and there is no guy. "Off the market" could mean multiple things. So could "independent" as already stated.

I don't think it's a "one-size-fits-all" sort of answer to this. Simply put, the right person will work well with you.

Hi Jamie, welcome to the site!

The "not currently on the market" thing was intentionally vague. But I will say that I have come to very much appreciate the rare man who doesn't need me to be weak in order for him to feel strong. My issue is not with any men I am currently close to though.

For the past few years I've been trying to sort through some issues and mindsets to figure out what is actually Godly and proper versus what might just stem from cultural Christianity or things I might have heard as a young adult that took root as Biblical truth but might not have been. A lot of these issues have to do with dating, attraction, marital submission, leadership, gender roles, and the like.

I do not mean any of the following as bragging or trying to say that I am "independent" or whatever (because there are a lot of things that I am not good at, and as this thread has established it's a terribly uncharming thing to assert lol), but I will say that I am the kind of person that gets handed a lot of responsibility. I get asked to manage projects and make things happen (and by all accounts I generally do a good job of it), all while simultaneously hearing that leadership is only for men, proper women just make stuff happen behind the scenes without having any actual authority. Perhaps all that is true. I'm honestly not sure. I don't need fancy titles and honestly sometimes I wonder if being born female is my "thorn in the flesh" that helps keep me from pride (no I have not asked God to take this "thorn" from me, and I'm not going to lol ).

Anyway..... I do agree that the right person will work well with me, but my point in starting this thread was to find some pieces to the puzzle of how God actually wants me to be. Perhaps being too "independent" would cause some friction in a marriage. Like @Cameron143 said, it could possibly rob me and a future husband of some blessings if I'm unable to accept his provision and always trying to fend for myself. And like @Kainos pointed out, part of what makes a guy feel manly and fulfilled is being able to provide for those he loves, which is something I had not really considered. I appreciate all the input!

 

[zeroturbulence]

I don't know if it's already been mentioned, but the Proverbs 31 woman was an independent woman. Strong, independent, wise, responsible and godly.

 

[kqr_anointed]

I don't know if it's already been mentioned, but the Proverbs 31 woman was an independent woman. Strong, independent, wise, responsible and godly.

True

 

[Gideon300]

I actually don't really refer to myself as "independent", partly because most men seem to find the phrase upsetting, and partly because I don't really get the point in announcing that.



In this case I am not referring to independence from God, only to "needing" a husband/provider (though I do value men and I would like to get married). In my early/mid 20's I felt I "needed" a husband, and couldn't be happy without one. Eventually I learned to find my joy and purpose in the Lord. Now I don't feel as if I "need" a husband, but when I mention this (in response to guys stating that women need men), most guys seem to find the notion silly or naive. They refer to studies like the one you mentioned that are supposed to demonstrate to me how incompetent and illogical I must be since I am female. Men who actually know me don't generally say things like that; I'm referring more to casual acquaintances and random men on the internet.

The other time I hear the phrase used is when men in their 30s, 40s, and 50s are explaining that they need to find a wife in her 20s because women over 30 are "too independent". Which is fine, people are entitled to search for a spouse in any demographic they choose, and I know age factors in when you consider childbirth. But the flipside of that is all the women who now HAVE to be independent because most of the men in their age range are still dead-set on finding a cute 20-something.

I realize that plenty of men do not have this mindset; I am merely explaining the context in which I typically hear the phrase used.

Life has become way too complex. None of these issues mattered when I was in my 20's. In the natural, I am a complete introvert. I did not marry until I was 35. Most people were married with a family by then. I was divorced 9 years later. I stayed single until a bit over two years ago. I'm 73 now, my wife 71. God is good.

My son is in his 30's and has no desire to marry. I can understand why. He's not 6 ft tall for a start He's already handicapped. I looked at dating ads (pre-internet days) and most started with a minimum height requirement. I'm 5ft 7. And women complain that men are obsessed with looks!

Perhaps it is necessary to define independence better. My wife drives; she was a nurse much of her working life. She is wise and has great discernment. I think of us as a team. She has strengths that I lack and vice versa. To me, that is marriage. I also believe that a good marriage develops over time.

I suggest to anyone, especially men, who seek to marry check out Mark Gungor. He explains how women and men differ and how men can be better husbands. Also, how women can understand men. Mark is not only educational, he is one of the funniest men on the planet. Mixing humour with sometimes difficult concepts makes them easier to accept. Unlike many marriage seminars, he does engage in male bashing.

 

[Mem]

Lol nope, I'm driving and he's shooting, it's the natural order of things

Then you'll have to take the pistol, as long as you're both straight shooters. Together, you'll hit bank.

 

[Snackersmom]

Life has become way too complex. None of these issues mattered when I was in my 20's. In the natural, I am a complete introvert. I did not marry until I was 35. Most people were married with a family by then. I was divorced 9 years later. I stayed single until a bit over two years ago. I'm 73 now, my wife 71. God is good.

My son is in his 30's and has no desire to marry. I can understand why. He's not 6 ft tall for a start He's already handicapped. I looked at dating ads (pre-internet days) and most started with a minimum height requirement. I'm 5ft 7. And women complain that men are obsessed with looks!

Perhaps it is necessary to define independence better. My wife drives; she was a nurse much of her working life. She is wise and has great discernment. I think of us as a team. She has strengths that I lack and vice versa. To me, that is marriage. I also believe that a good marriage develops over time.

I suggest to anyone, especially men, who seek to marry check out Mark Gungor. He explains how women and men differ and how men can be better husbands. Also, how women can understand men. Mark is not only educational, he is one of the funniest men on the planet. Mixing humour with sometimes difficult concepts makes them easier to accept. Unlike many marriage seminars, he does engage in male bashing.

Thank you for your story, I'm glad you and your wife found each other! It's really sweet how you balance out each other's strengths and weaknesses. I might check out Mark Gungor as well.

Regarding height, I'm sorry you and your son have had to deal with that . I'm not sure why some women think height is so important. I will admit that I prefer a guy to be at least a couple inches taller than I am, because there is something nice about being able to literally "look up" to him (not sure exactly why ). But it has never been a really big deal to me, and at nearly 5 ft 7 myself, I have dated a guy who was also 5 ft 7. I never understood why women who are barely 5 ft. need men who tower over them, that's just weird to me.... seems like a good way to miss out on a great guy.

All the best, thank you for your input!

 

[Gideon300]

Thank you for your story, I'm glad you and your wife found each other! It's really sweet how you balance out each other's strengths and weaknesses. I might check out Mark Gungor as well.

Regarding height, I'm sorry you and your son have had to deal with that . I'm not sure why some women think height is so important. I will admit that I prefer a guy to be at least a couple inches taller than I am, because there is something nice about being able to literally "look up" to him (not sure exactly why ). But it has never been a really big deal to me, and at nearly 5 ft 7 myself, I have dated a guy who was also 5 ft 7. I never understood why women who are barely 5 ft. need men who tower over them, that's just weird to me.... seems like a good way to miss out on a great guy.

All the best, thank you for your input!

As an aside, my wife is taller than me. Not a lot, but noticeable.

 

[Karlon]

Hey guys, there's something I've been wondering about and thought I'd get some outside perspectives.

Lately I keep hearing guys refer to "Independent women" in a very negative way. They mention how unattractive it is and how silly it is for a woman to think she doesn't "need" a man.

I get that men and women are designed to compliment each other's strengths and weaknesses. No argument there. But there's plenty of us ladies who have entered middle age and realize that we might never have a man looking out for us. So, in that case......wouldn't it be silly for us to go about "needing" something we don't have? Isn't the logical course of action to figure out how to make do without something you might NEVER have?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding what men mean by "independent". I would have thought it just meant a woman who pays her own bills, doesn't make her problems other people's problems, and probably won't call you sobbing from the side of the road because she forgot to put gas in the car. But maybe I'm mistaken about that, and men are referring to something else entirely?

Anyways, thoughts? I realize that not all men are turned off by independence, I'm just curious why anyone would be..... seems like its a good trait regardless of gender, yet I generally hear it like it's a bad thing for women and a good thing for men.

"independent woman" also means a woman who has a career & usually it's a high paying job, that is stern, almost unmovable in her decisions. she does what she wants when she wants to do it. when a guy meets her, she will be harsh, strict & to the point immediately. & when it comes to a deep relationship, her character will remain in intimate, personal important issues & you may receive a "cold" response. in other words, she will have the "i don't care" attitude & answer. Saratoga is loaded with this brand of woman. also, Saratoga's population of women contains a high level of amicable, kind, gentle, social & "easy to get along with" ladies.

 

[Kireina]

My simple understanding of an independent woman is a woman who takes care of everyone and nobody is taking care of her...she takes care of herself....🤔 she pays her bills, She doesn't rely on anyone financially.

Emotionally strong. She can live on her own. She loves cats and dogs hehehe(not all of them hehehe ( the women I know) She is career driven...she is innovative,smart and outspoken. In short, an independent woman is confident,self-sufficient and you can put her anywhere and she'll thrive.


I think an independent woman is a good catch...and many men find them attractive...I think in my opinion some men don't like or it puts them off when women say they don't need men or express hatred towards men... 🤔

 

[Snackersmom]

I read back through all the posts (thanks for your input!), and one thing that kind of stood out to me is that it sounds like a man hearing that he is not needed would tend to feel that he is not valued. And a man that doesn't feel valued probably wouldn't feel wanted. Does that sound fair/accurate?

It seems it could be an instance of men and women hearing the same thing but interpreting it differently. A woman might say it thinking "I don't need you, but I want you anyway isn't that sweet?", and the guy hears "You're useless to me, go find someone else"

 

[LifelongLearner]

Hey guys, there's something I've been wondering about and thought I'd get some outside perspectives.

Lately I keep hearing guys refer to "Independent women" in a very negative way. They mention how unattractive it is and how silly it is for a woman to think she doesn't "need" a man.

I get that men and women are designed to compliment each other's strengths and weaknesses. No argument there. But there's plenty of us ladies who have entered middle age and realize that we might never have a man looking out for us. So, in that case......wouldn't it be silly for us to go about "needing" something we don't have? Isn't the logical course of action to figure out how to make do without something you might NEVER have?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding what men mean by "independent". I would have thought it just meant a woman who pays her own bills, doesn't make her problems other people's problems, and probably won't call you sobbing from the side of the road because she forgot to put gas in the car. But maybe I'm mistaken about that, and men are referring to something else entirely?

Anyways, thoughts? I realize that not all men are turned off by independence, I'm just curious why anyone would be..... seems like its a good trait regardless of gender, yet I generally hear it like it's a bad thing for women and a good thing for men.

What a great post and comments, kudos Snackersmom.

Only read a few comments so far but can't resist throwing my two bobsworth in already. Personally think the supposed natural strife and lack of understanding between us, is largely a manufactured/social engineering project to distract us from focusing on our real enemies.

Think we're perfectly designed and created to make us attractive/complementary to each other, we can move mountains if we work together rather than fight each other. Of course i have more in common with my women friends but love my men friends too, who often offer a slightly different perspective which can be very handy.

Just a short comment now but will really read through this post soon, the comments i have read are very thoughtful and interesting to me.

 

[Lynx]

I read back through all the posts (thanks for your input!), and one thing that kind of stood out to me is that it sounds like a man hearing that he is not needed would tend to feel that he is not valued. And a man that doesn't feel valued probably wouldn't feel wanted. Does that sound fair/accurate?

It seems it could be an instance of men and women hearing the same thing but interpreting it differently. A woman might say it thinking "I don't need you, but I want you anyway isn't that sweet?", and the guy hears "You're useless to me, go find someone else"

Maybe for some men.

Me, I would love to find a woman who does not need me. I don't need her. I can cook my own meals and wash my own laundry just fine. If she could mow the yard and change a light bulb on her own, she wouldn't need me at all.

It seems like two people who don't really need each other, but choose to spend the rest of their lives together because they like to be around each other, would be the perfect match. It would be a lot less "I HAVE to have you!" and a lot more "I actually really do love you and WANT to be with you."

But alas... Where to find such?

 

[LifelongLearner]

Maybe for some men.

Me, I would love to find a woman who does not need me. I don't need her. I can cook my own meals and wash my own laundry just fine. If she could mow the yard and change a light bulb on her own, she wouldn't need me at all.

It seems like two people who don't really need each other, but choose to spend the rest of their lives together because they like to be around each other, would be the perfect match. It would be a lot less "I HAVE to have you!" and a lot more "I actually really do love you and WANT to be with you."

But alas... Where to find such?

Know what Lynx, now i'm old, i like being able to shut the door on everyone sometimes and just chill i suppose. Don't get me wrong, i'm definitely outgoing and gregarious too but true alone time has become important to me with age. My children's Dad/ex-husband is actually the more emotionally needy of us, which became a bit of a nuisance as we aged, we no longer really had enough in common either.

It's worked out well, i get on really well with him and his more compatible for him now wife. Think we possibly avoided the fate worse than death scenario i've seen with a couple of friends, who aren't really a couple now.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Maybe for some men.

Me, I would love to find a woman who does not need me. I don't need her. I can cook my own meals and wash my own laundry just fine. If she could mow the yard and change a light bulb on her own, she wouldn't need me at all.

It seems like two people who don't really need each other, but choose to spend the rest of their lives together because they like to be around each other, would be the perfect match. It would be a lot less "I HAVE to have you!" and a lot more "I actually really do love you and WANT to be with you."

But alas... Where to find such?

Ooh, a little surprised by the surprised face. When it comes to those tests, i'm ALWAYS a top end ENTP, the rationals, rational type. It's become stronger as i've aged, still very tolerant but don't suffer fools so gladly now. Know you'll understand what i mean, think you might be similar.

 

[Snackersmom]

Ooh, a little surprised by the surprised face. When it comes to those tests, i'm ALWAYS a top end ENTP, the rationals, rational type. It's become stronger as i've aged, still very tolerant but don't suffer fools so gladly now. Know you'll understand what i mean, think you might be similar.

Dangit, ya just HAD to mention the MBTI didn't ya? 😜 I'm a total nerd for that stuff, it has helped me understand myself and others better.

That was one of my reasons for starting this thread: to understand better. Anything that seems to elicit a strong collective response is fascinating to me, especially if it's not something I personally see as a big deal. I love poking into the hidden reasons why we think, react, or relate the way that we do.

Maybe you could start a thread about MBTI or personality types in general?

 

[Snackersmom]

Maybe for some men.

Me, I would love to find a woman who does not need me. I don't need her. I can cook my own meals and wash my own laundry just fine. If she could mow the yard and change a light bulb on her own, she wouldn't need me at all.

It seems like two people who don't really need each other, but choose to spend the rest of their lives together because they like to be around each other, would be the perfect match. It would be a lot less "I HAVE to have you!" and a lot more "I actually really do love you and WANT to be with you."

But alas... Where to find such?

That was another theme I was picking up on from the replies.... the more comfortable a person is with their own singleness, the more accepting they seem to be of that same trait in others. I have met plenty of women who wanted to be needed as well.

Interesting 🤔