Help for those dealing with blasphemy against the Holy Ghost

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Sep 24, 2012
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#1
I have struggled with this in the past, but having recently read some of the verses in Mark 3, Matthew 12, and Luke 12 (in the KJV) it has come to me (perhaps by the Holy Ghost striving with me or helping me) that this sin is very likely to have only been committable by those in the presence of the actions of the Lord Jesus himself. I'm not certain of this but it seems possible not otherwise (i.e. it seems possible that this sin is likely to have been only committable under such circumstances).
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
26,156
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#2
I have struggled with this in the past, but having recently read some of the verses in Mark 3, Matthew 12, and Luke 12 (in the KJV) it has come to me (perhaps by the Holy Ghost striving with me or helping me) that this sin is very likely to have only been committable by those in the presence of the actions of the Lord Jesus himself. I'm not certain of this but it seems possible not otherwise (i.e. it seems possible that this sin is likely to have been only committable under such circumstances).
I’m not going to badger you about this, but every time you mention the KJV, you are repeating your implication that it is superior. Just drop it. By all means note it if you quote it, but otherwise just provide the reference.

Unless, of course, you are actually so deeply deceived that you think the Holy Spirit is incapable of speaking to people through another translation. In which case, your god is too small.
 
Sep 24, 2012
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#3
I’m not going to badger you about this, but every time you mention the KJV, you are repeating your implication that it is superior. Just drop it. By all means note it if you quote it, but otherwise just provide the reference.

Unless, of course, you are actually so deeply deceived that you think the Holy Spirit is incapable of speaking to people through another translation. In which case, your god is too small.
Look man, I think you've fallen into backbiting, and it is a serious thing and can keep someone out of the kingdom of God, it is mentioned in the New Testament and you're one of the contributors here that I have looked forward to reading. I have a heart for you since you post here a lot and offer your opinions regularly. I don't know what to say, I am PERSUADED that the KJV is the Holy Bible. I might seem a fool for stating it over the past few days, but my argumentation is rather simple, they might not have liked it and switched the language. I don't know what else there is to say! You're taking a risk in reading something else! You could be believing in another Jesus of Nazareth just because someone wrote something off the top of their head about what they preferred the language to mean instead of how it was originally translated. I don't understand the translation methods, but it is risky to stray from the original because someone might be influenced by personal opinion when they go to retranslate it. Anyways I am sincerely sorry if I pushed any buttons, it's just my view. Feel free to contribute to this thread if you want, and I hope DEARLY that you haven't struggled with this issue.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
26,156
14,129
113
#4
I am PERSUADED that the KJV is the Holy Bible.
That’s fine; your preference is your business.

my argumentation is rather simple, they might not have liked it and switched the language. You're taking a risk in reading something else! You could be believing in another Jesus of Nazareth just because someone wrote something off the top of their head about what they preferred the language to mean instead of how it was originally translated. I don't understand the translation methods, but it is risky to stray from the original because someone might be influenced by personal opinion when they go to retranslate it.
Do your homework and stop arguing on the basis of your unfounded opinion. It’s not personal, and I’m not offended, but you are perpetuating ignorance and error. You are simply wrong and are promoting fear, you clearly haven’t done any research on the matter, and you suspect the worst of all modern scholars while not applying the same criteria to the KJV translators.

There is no risk to using a good modern translation. God is bigger than the translation. He can speak through any version.
 

Randy4u2c

Active member
Sep 13, 2022
213
96
28
#5
I have struggled with this in the past, but having recently read some of the verses in Mark 3, Matthew 12, and Luke 12 (in the KJV) it has come to me (perhaps by the Holy Ghost striving with me or helping me) that this sin is very likely to have only been committable by those in the presence of the actions of the Lord Jesus himself. I'm not certain of this but it seems possible not otherwise (i.e. it seems possible that this sin is likely to have been only committable under such circumstances).
What is the unforgivable sin? Refusing to allow the Holy Spirit to speak through you to expose Satan as an imposter when he comes to earth claiming to be God, II The 2:3-4. If you know Satan comes first, before Jesus and you know that God intends to speak through you to expose Satan as an imposter and you then deny the Holy Spirit to speak through you when delivered up before him, it is unforgivable. This blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is described in Luke 12:8-12.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
17,556
745
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#6
I have struggled with this in the past, but having recently read some of the verses in Mark 3, Matthew 12, and Luke 12 (in the KJV) it has come to me (perhaps by the Holy Ghost striving with me or helping me) that this sin is very likely to have only been committable by those in the presence of the actions of the Lord Jesus himself. I'm not certain of this but it seems possible not otherwise (i.e. it seems possible that this sin is likely to have been only committable under such circumstances).
"Unbelief" to God in death would happen and began in Adam the first
He ate from the one tree he was told to not eat from, if did he would die, however, this exactly happened, it happened, Adam the first did not belief and so ate ("Unbelief")
Death to all has been happening ever since, to all flesh
Not the Soul. that is what God came here to earth in Son for to reconcile us all first as forgiven (John 1:29, Matthew 5:17, John 19:30) that had to get done first. Read Acts1
Now; new life is offered in the risen Son, Jesus the Christ For our Souls to be alive and walk new in the same love and mercy given us through Son, who went to that cross, once for us all willingly. he did not have to do that.
Believe God Father in this as happened, done and will never do anymore for us the people to believe God in this love and mercy for us all or not.
That is the choice left to either believe God in risen Son or not
all new life is a gift through Jesus Christ our Lord, to all that believe God, see this eventually.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 John 5:16
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sinnot unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1 John 5:17
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

the only sin left is the conscious choice to not believe God in risen Son for them to be taught new in love and mercy to all
That be what Father does for us all in Daddy's Holy Spirit given to us as it was given to Son first, now us after we all are reconciled to Father first in that done work of Son for us as perfect. This was, and is an only one time willing death to reconciled, as is now done for everyone first (2 Cor 5:17-20) it is done John19:30 Completed for us to by belief we are given new life of love and mercy to all as born new from Father in risen Son, at least me this I now see after a long journey here on earth, trying, wanting, desiring to be saved
Seeing. God did it, so I can rest from my works and see his done work of love and mercy permeate through me to everyone, as all will know and see and then choose too to either believe God in it or not, thank you.

Authorized (King James) Version

Hebrews 4:9-13

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,177
1,805
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#7
I have struggled with this in the past, but having recently read some of the verses in Mark 3, Matthew 12, and Luke 12 (in the KJV) it has come to me (perhaps by the Holy Ghost striving with me or helping me) that this sin is very likely to have only been committable by those in the presence of the actions of the Lord Jesus himself. I'm not certain of this but it seems possible not otherwise (i.e. it seems possible that this sin is likely to have been only committable under such circumstances).
It does not seem logical that the only people who would be able to say something bad about the Holy Spirit are people that lived during the first century. It also does not stand to reason that the only people who could speak evil of the Holy Spirit are those who have full knowledge of the consequences.

In the Matthew passage the opponents of Christ had accused him of doing Miracle's by Beelzebub. In Mark, it is by an unclean spirit.

Isn't accusing the Holy Spirit of being an unclean spirit and insulting, derisive thing to say about the Holy Spirit.

I think the popularity of some of these fuzzy teachings on blast fitting the how you spirit are able to be repeated because people do not know what the word blasphemy means but if you look in the Matthew version it also clarifies-- speaks a word against Him.

There is also that rather long repetitive winding bit of sophistry from Augustine and one of his writings where he tries to make all kinds of things out to be blasphemy and the Holy Spirit and therefore try to argue that it's not possible to do.
 
Sep 24, 2012
670
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#8
It does not seem logical that the only people who would be able to say something bad about the Holy Spirit are people that lived during the first century. It also does not stand to reason that the only people who could speak evil of the Holy Spirit are those who have full knowledge of the consequences.

In the Matthew passage the opponents of Christ had accused him of doing Miracle's by Beelzebub. In Mark, it is by an unclean spirit.

Isn't accusing the Holy Spirit of being an unclean spirit and insulting, derisive thing to say about the Holy Spirit.

I think the popularity of some of these fuzzy teachings on blast fitting the how you spirit are able to be repeated because people do not know what the word blasphemy means but if you look in the Matthew version it also clarifies-- speaks a word against Him.

There is also that rather long repetitive winding bit of sophistry from Augustine and one of his writings where he tries to make all kinds of things out to be blasphemy and the Holy Spirit and therefore try to argue that it's not possible to do.
Well, if you look at Matthew 12, Luke 12, and Mark 3 comparatively it's logical to view that Jesus was speaking of the sin of blaspheming against the Holy Ghost in his presence while He was at work, since in Luke 12 he speaks of speaking against himself and then blaspheming against the Holy Ghost.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
4,273
948
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#9
I have struggled with this in the past, but having recently read some of the verses in Mark 3, Matthew 12, and Luke 12 (in the KJV) it has come to me (perhaps by the Holy Ghost striving with me or helping me) that this sin is very likely to have only been committable by those in the presence of the actions of the Lord Jesus himself. I'm not certain of this but it seems possible not otherwise (i.e. it seems possible that this sin is likely to have been only committable under such circumstances).
Antecedents of the KJV include this (gleaned via google):

Following Wycliffe's translation of the Bible into English, the Roman Catholic Church had denounced Wycliffe as a heretic. They had exhumed his body and cast his ashes into the river, carrying them to the Severn and outwards to the whole world. They had banned his works, burned his Bible wherever it could be found, forbidden the Bible to be read by the ordinary people, and outlawed translations of the Bible into English. The penalty for disobeying was simple. Death.

Once again, the Catholic Church ruled supreme, with the Pope at its head. The Church permitted no rivals in its insatiable lust for power and wealth, and stood ready to destroy everything and anyone who stood in its path. Following other Inquisitions, the Spanish Inquisition was established in 1478. It would remain in force until 1834, more than 350 years later. The excesses of the Spanish Inquisition are well documented. A reign of terror ensued. Anyone who was suspected of "heresy", of not accepting whatever the Catholic Church taught, was tortured until they either died or confessed. At first mainly Jews and Moslems fell victim, but soon the Inquisition broadened out to all and sundry who opposed the Church, or spoke out against its excesses. Land, goods and lives were forfeited to the Catholic Church. Jews were expelled from country after country across Europe. The Bible was a banned book. The Church knew they dared not let people read God's Word for themselves.

To those who hungered and thirsted to know the Truth of the Bible, the situation seemed hopeless. Europe had become a dark and dangerous place. But light was starting to shine from the darkness. Glimmers of hope were starting to arise. A new dawn of Truth was starting to emerge from the shadows. Despite the Bible still being a banned book, a sequence of events were starting to emerge which would make the translation of the Bible into English, not just a possibility, but an inevitability. The Bible was coming, and coming in an exciting way, to the people of Great Britain and the English-speaking world. These were events which changed history. And history is still feeling its effects.

First, in 1450, the Printing Press was invented. Whereas John Wycliffe and his followers had to produce hand-written manuscripts of his Bible translation, the printing press allowed Bibles to be (painstakingly and meticulously) typeset, but then hundreds of copies made. This made it possible to vastly increase the supply of Bibles.

Second, as our series of videos and resources on Early Printed Bibles shows, the printing press was starting to be used to good effect. Printed copies of the Hebrew Bible (or Old Testament) were being produced, albeit at great effort and expense. Copies of the New Testament in Greek and Latin were also being produced, as were Polyglot Bibles. Each one had to be personally authorized by the Pope. But these printed Hebrew, Greek and Latin texts allowed scholars in Universities to have access to the Holy Scriptures like never before - even if it was "only" in the Original Languages of the Bible, rather than the language of the common people.

Third, although the Spanish Inquisition was still in full sway and the Pope claimed universal authority over the whole of Christendom, elsewhere in Europe the Church's authority was being questioned and challenged as never before. Like Wycliffe before him, in Germany, Martin Luther and his followers were starting to read and translate the Bible for themselves, armed with the printed copies of the Hebrew, Greek and Latin texts that were now rolling off the printing press. And like Wycliffe, they too could clearly see the gaping chasm between what was written in the Bible, and the beliefs, doctrines, practices and excesses of the Catholic Church.

___________

Desiderius Erasmus’ printing of the Greek New Testament, with his Latin translation, encouraged many to study the New Testament in its original Greek. Three thousand copies were printed of Erasmus’ first two editions, 1516 and 1519. Luther used Erasmus’ second edition in making his translation of the New Testament into German while at the Wartburg Castle.

Knowing he had been declared an outlaw and was under judgment of being executed as a heretic, Luther worked ceaselessly to complete a translation of the New Testament from the Greek into the German dialect of Saxony. When he returned to Wittenberg, he rushed the printing so the book would be ready for the Frankfurt Book Fair in the fall. 3000 copies of the “September Testament” were printed, and soon there were demands for more. A second, corrected printing was made in December. Luther’s translation of the Bible into German was the first translation from the Greek and Hebrew in over a millennium, since Jerome’s Latin Vulgate translation in the fourth century. While printers and publishers profited from the sale of Luther’s Bible translation, Luther himself never received any payment for the work, or indeed for any of his publications.

_________

The year 2011 marks the four hundredth anniversary of the translation and publication of the King James Bible (the KJV). While we applaud the work of the King James translators, their task was made easier through the labors and sacrifices of earlier Bible translators. Indeed, besides using the Greek and Hebrew texts of the Old and New Testaments, the King James translators used earlier Bible translations to assist them in their work. One of their primary sources was the New Testament and partial Old Testament translations of William Tyndale. Indeed, Tyndale was the first to translate the New Testament from the Greek text and parts of the Old Testament from the Hebrew text into English. The King James translators found his 1534 New Testament to be an excellent translation and incorporated most of it into their own work. Thus the KJV translators were deeply indebted to Tyndale for his groundbreaking work, and it is with that indebtedness to Tyndale that we revisit his history, celebrate his life and works, and pause to express gratitude for his contributions and sacrifices in making God’s word available in English to millions of readers.
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,905
664
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#10
Well, if you look at Matthew 12, Luke 12, and Mark 3 comparatively it's logical to view that Jesus was speaking of the sin of blaspheming against the Holy Ghost in his presence while He was at work, since in Luke 12 he speaks of speaking against himself and then blaspheming against the Holy Ghost.
And He what left that part out (in his presence)? So if you can't see Him.. He's not there? I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. I will never leave you nor forsake you.

That is not how it works. He said my sheep know my voice. This is one of those that us hugely debated. If one plays the God card so to speak "God told me" I said "if" .. what can any one say then :) So no
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
4,273
948
113
#11
I have struggled with this in the past, but having recently read some of the verses in Mark 3, Matthew 12, and Luke 12 (in the KJV) it has come to me (perhaps by the Holy Ghost striving with me or helping me) that this sin is very likely to have only been committable by those in the presence of the actions of the Lord Jesus himself. I'm not certain of this but it seems possible not otherwise (i.e. it seems possible that this sin is likely to have been only committable under such circumstances).
TOJ #75: Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable. [MT 12:25-32//MK 3:29//LK 12:10, LK 11:17-22] Jesus attempted (in v.25-29) to show the Pharisees how their logic was perverted. The meaning of “blasphemy” is speaking against or insulting (HB 10:29), and speaking comes from the heart (see the next TOJ). Speaking against the Spirit of love is a symptom of hatred for God/Good. Repentance and forgiveness is possible before death (TOJ #57) except for Believers who intentionally commit apostasy (HB 6:4-6) or repudiate their Faith, after which there is no reason for reconversion (HB 10:26-29), so God’s Spirit no longer convicts them of Sin (PS 53:11). Thus, “the final condition of that man is worse than the first.” {MT 12:45} (See TOJ #79.)

TOP #263: Believers may commit apostasy. [HB 3:6-4:11, 6:4-6, 10:19-39] Apostates will never repent, and thus it must be the unpardonable blasphemy against the Holy Spirit referred to by Jesus in MT 12:31-32.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,383
1,229
113
New Zealand
#12
I have struggled with this in the past, but having recently read some of the verses in Mark 3, Matthew 12, and Luke 12 (in the KJV) it has come to me (perhaps by the Holy Ghost striving with me or helping me) that this sin is very likely to have only been committable by those in the presence of the actions of the Lord Jesus himself. I'm not certain of this but it seems possible not otherwise (i.e. it seems possible that this sin is likely to have been only committable under such circumstances).
Those who were addressed in blasphemy of the Holy Spirit were Pharisees attributing Jesus' work to the devil.

This isn't about something believers do.

Its rejecting who Jesus is to begin with.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,177
1,805
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#13
Well, if you look at Matthew 12, Luke 12, and Mark 3 comparatively it's logical to view that Jesus was speaking of the sin of blaspheming against the Holy Ghost in his presence while He was at work, since in Luke 12 he speaks of speaking against himself and then blaspheming against the Holy Ghost.
James wrote, 'speak not evil one of another brethren' to people who lived in the first century, to a Jewish audience. So can we logically conclude that the only people who could possibly speak evil of each other are Jews who lived in the first century? And no one in history after that could ever speak evil again? Or that no one since then has every been able to speak anything?


Is all that stuff inherent in the meaning of the word 'speak' because that was the immediate context?
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
11,342
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
#14
I have struggled with this in the past, but having recently read some of the verses in Mark 3, Matthew 12, and Luke 12 (in the KJV) it has come to me (perhaps by the Holy Ghost striving with me or helping me) that this sin is very likely to have only been committable by those in the presence of the actions of the Lord Jesus himself. I'm not certain of this but it seems possible not otherwise (i.e. it seems possible that this sin is likely to have been only committable under such circumstances).
Sometimes I make reference to the traditional text/ King James Bible because I use it exclusively and the readers need to know because the others differ in places.
Go right ahead without hesitation.
If others don't like it, they can use their Clear Word Bible or whatever they choose to consult.

On the topic you bring up, yesterday I was reading I Corinthians 12:3.

3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.


I'm not sure what your comment or question is yet. Sometimes you have to draw me a picture. What do you think the Holy Spirit is striving or helping you with?
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
4,273
948
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#15
Those who were addressed in blasphemy of the Holy Spirit were Pharisees attributing Jesus' work to the devil.

This isn't about something believers do.

Its rejecting who Jesus is to begin with.
All sinners reject Jesus before repenting and being forgiven,
so such rejection cannot be unforgiveable blasphemy.
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
2,980
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#16
I have struggled with this in the past, but having recently read some of the verses in Mark 3, Matthew 12, and Luke 12 (in the KJV) it has come to me (perhaps by the Holy Ghost striving with me or helping me) that this sin is very likely to have only been committable by those in the presence of the actions of the Lord Jesus himself. I'm not certain of this but it seems possible not otherwise (i.e. it seems possible that this sin is likely to have been only committable under such circumstances).
"only.....committable.....presence, actions, of Lord"? no. haven't you heard an atheist speak blasphemy against God? al of our actions are in the presence of God, He knows all we do but an atheist will speak blasphemy without mentally, physically or spiritually being in the presence of our Lord.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,383
1,229
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New Zealand
#17
All sinners reject Jesus before repenting and being forgiven,
so such rejection cannot be unforgiveable blasphemy.
The point is, the people addressed in the passage weren't believers, so it shouldn't be applied to believers.

Pharisees, attributing Jesus's work to the devil, is very far from application to believers