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You're clearly triggered when people refer to the "Arabs" of that particular ethnonational group as "Palestinians". Not all Arabs are Palestinians, but if it enables you to stay on point and discuss in good faith, then I'll call them "Palestinian Arabs" to distinguish them from Arabs of other areas (like we did prior to 1964). Would "Palestinian Arab" work for you or would it still be triggering?
@ThereRoseaLamb
I sincerely want to understand your positioning and know how you got there. If you don't mind answering a few questions so I can better understand:
1.) Do you agree that Britain and France promised the Arabs in what was called "Palestine", at the time, their own nation state in what we currently call "Israel" conditioned if they help fight with us during WWI?
2.) Do you agree they promised those Palestinian Arabs the land known as Palestine prior to the signing of the Balfour Declaration (1917)?
3.) Was the promise to the Palestinian Arabs ever fulfilled? Why or why not?
I have more questions, but I think it's important we at least are on the same page here before continuing.
I sincerely want to understand your positioning and know how you got there. If you don't mind answering a few questions so I can better understand:
1.) Do you agree that Britain and France promised the Arabs in what was called "Palestine", at the time, their own nation state in what we currently call "Israel" conditioned if they help fight with us during WWI?
2.) Do you agree they promised those Palestinian Arabs the land known as Palestine prior to the signing of the Balfour Declaration (1917)?
3.) Was the promise to the Palestinian Arabs ever fulfilled? Why or why not?
I have more questions, but I think it's important we at least are on the same page here before continuing.
Yes. They got that promised nation.
It’s called Jordan. Quadruple the size of present day Israel.
Of course they wouldn’t accept the “Palestinians” Muslims that reside in Israel.
No, not all heretics, only those with a damnable heresy. The definition of heresy is school of thought, every single believer, every denomination can be seen as a school of thought. Only those that reject the items of the faith are damnable heresies.
Correct, Britain made three promises in 1915, and only kept one according to the historical record.
Britain had no right to promise anything. Arabs refused the land that they were offered. They could have had a two state solution, they refused. The land belongs to the Jews, it was their homeland, 3000 yrs of proven history there. The Brits are now being taken over by Muslims, and I believe it's because of what they did to the Jewish people.
So by stating "Britain had no right", the logical entailment you are acknowledging is that they (along with France) appealed to the Palestinian Arabs to help overthrow their rulers (the Ottomans) and made them a promise that Palestine (the area known as modern day Israel) would be theirs. Got it.
When you say that "Arabs refused the land", would it be similar to an illegal immigrant coming to your house (European Jews who didn't have land or property claims over the Palestinians living there), offering you the right stay in your garage while they take over the rest of it, and when you say "Heck no!", you would technically be "refusing" to live on your property (the garage)?
As far as Brits being taken over by Muslims, that doesn't concern me. What relevance is that? Do you still think all Muslims are Palestinian? Why do you conflate different and unique groups of people together that are different? There are many illegal Mexicans that are Christian... does that mean they are American somehow? I am failing to understand how you connect the dots.
To be clear, the argument is "Britain didn't have the right to promise the land to the Palestinians for helping defeat the Ottoman empire" but they DID have the right to break their promise to the Palestinians and give the land to the Jews. Either they have the right to give it away or they don't.
Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may)... but Transjordan was not part of Palestine. Furthermore, Palestine, specifically, was what was promised to the Palestinian Arabs and not Transjordan. Did you learn something differently?
My point is, if I promised you a Lexus for helping me do some work, but then after you fulfilled your obligation, I said "Eh, take this Camry instead... it's similar...", that doesn't mean I fulfilled my promise to you. The Camry was never part of the agreement. Would you disagree?
The land was the Jewish homeland. Why do you think they wanted to come back to Israel after the Holocaust?! It wasn't Britain's to carve up.
No, it isn't like that at all. It was their homeland. Arabs have their own homeland, it isn't Israel.
It should, read history.
Where did I say that?!
Not sure I understand your question. But I'll post the following video and perhaps you'll understand where I am coming from.
How can one "come back" to a place they have never been? When Palestinian Arabs were promised Palestine (modern day Israel), it was only 7.9% Jewish. The rest were Palestinian Arab. Feel free to fact check me if you think this figure is wrong.
Also, you're aware that the allies fought against Hitler's ideology, but nevertheless, were in fact not big fans of Jews? A huge motivation of screwing over the Palestinians and giving the land to the Jews was a way to rid Europe of the Jews. Do you disagree this was a motivation?
So where is the homeland of the Palestinian Arabs who were born, raised, and had legal deeds, etc... prior to the end of WWI since it's not Palestine/Israel?
You're saying the Palestinian Arabs that were actually born in Palestine/Israel DON'T have a homeland, but that the European Jews who were born in Europe, have a new Homeland in Israel because Britain gave them the land?
I do, but I'm not sure how it's relevant to the discussion of promises broken to the Palestinian Arabs. Make your argument since I'm incapable of reading your mind.
You elude to this by bringing up Muslims in the UK are overtaking it and that the neighboring Arabs should take in the Palestinian Arabs simply because they are Arabs. As if that a valid and convincing reason for the Palestinian Arabs to abandon Gaza.
Yeah, I'm a Shapiro fan. I disagree with him on pretty much everything as it pertains to the history/the Nakba though. I've personally spoken to an elder man (when he was a young boy) who had to abandon his home due to threats by the Jews. The only way the Jews could create a democracy in the middle east is if they outnumbered the Palestinian Arabs. How do they do that when they are such a small percentage of the population? The Nakba is your answer.
Well, according to pictures and Mark Twain, it was a stopping place on the road for nomadic people. There was nothing there. I have a book that was given to me with pictures showing Israel then and now. It was barren land "owned" by rich overseers. The Jews bought back their homeland at inflated prices, even though it was hardly worth having.
Exactly who were not "big fans" of the Jews?
No such people as Palestinians. They are Arabs from Arab countries.
The Bibas family was "returned", at least their bodies were. There will never be peace in Gaza. They have had offer after offer for peace and have said no to all. They scream from the river to the sea, only they understand what they are calling for, not like some dumb Americans. They refuse Israel their homeland. Yes, they need to go back to the countries they came from. They refuse to live in peace. If you watched the video, you know that is fact. Israel sits on 1% of the land in the ME and the Arabs won't even allow them that. Jews have a right to a homeland, their homeland.
Israel does have a democracy, it is the only one in the ME, and are our allies. He's telling the historical truth of what happened. I don't see what there is to disagree with. Unless you think he's lying.
He presents very selective information and any research into the history will uncover his selective presentation, can we call that disinformation? I think we can.
There are primary sources pertaining to the Nakba which repudiate his lies.
He has lost a lot of followers and credibility since that video.
Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
It is God that gave the land to the Jews, Britain is no one, the question is not whether or not Britain had the right to do anything but rather if God is true. Man's unbelief does not make the faith of God without effect. The fact that Britain is a liar does not change the fact that God is true.
Which begs the question if this is man trying to fulfill biblical prophecy (Zionism), or if it's God using man (the Brits) to call back the Jews. There is just a plethora of evidence to suggest that man plotted to force God's hand on the timing of the return of Jews to Israel. But I want to be crystal clear about something. Let's grant that it was God's will that the Palestinian Arabs would be betrayed on their deal with Britain/France about ruling over Palestine if they helped defeat the Ottoman empire and that the Jews are to return to Israel. This does not mean that the property that legitimately belongs to the Palestinian Arabs somehow legitimately belongs to European Jews who are moving in. They can return to Israel and start their lives... but did God allow them to overtake other people's property?
A big issue is that there is a refusal to acknowledge this even happened in spite of there still being living descendants of this tragic event (the Nakba) alive today. I predict in the next 10-20 years, when the people who alive in 1948 are dead, the history of the Nakba will further be erased and replaced.
If one genuinely believes it's God's doing, then own that the Palestinian Arabs were betrayed by Britain/France and don't deny the Nakba. I don't understand why you have to deny history to make your claim that it's God's will.
The prophet was Jesus who said that.
Was God being true when the inhabitants of the land were being murdered, raped and driven from their homes, some of whom were Christians?
Who was the prophet which gave these instructions?
Now where to be found.
Luke 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.