Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[sawdust]

Sorry but you don't come across as the brightest bulb in the box and you actually demonstrate you have no idea what i think about these things.
I can't take such confirmation bias seriously and i do make plenty of errors like most people. However, the one you're waffling on about never even crossed my mind and need to sort out your own errors for sure.

Of course it doesn't cross your mind. You begin in error therefore you can only continue in error without realising it.

I notice though you have given no argument against what I have said, only made your defamatory remarks. So be it.

Have a nice day.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Many have probably realised i don't think we can exercise free will, even think it's impossible for us to. Won't explain why i think it's an impossiblility for us yet, think it's useful for some to express why they think it exists first.

Precious sister, this is probably way above "my pay grade", but to find out if something exists, don't we first have to "define it"?

Maybe somebody already did that, and I apologize if I may have 'overlooked' it

Just wonderin'...

 

[BillyBob]

We cannot fulfill our will because we lack the power, not because we lack freedom.

I disagree. Fallen man can fulfill his will, we can make a decision based on our understanding. The problem is that our thoughts are evil continually (we are not in agreement with the will of God). Therefore, we are unable to please Him. The ability to please Him – is only restored by a heart transplant, then we can please Him because we have been enabled to do so!

 

[TMS]

Can understand why you think that but us not having free will does not mean we're controlled at all. Have explained many times through this post that so many having competing choice/agency, is why free will is impossible.

We're really scratch each other backists, every dog has its day sort of thing.

I haven't read everything but I see a division about what FREE WILL is.

Definition issues.

= the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion

= voluntary.

Free will = the capacity or ability to choose between different possible courses of action. Free will is closely linked to the concepts of moral responsibility, praise, culpability, and other judgements which apply only to actions that are freely chosen.

Free will = the capacity or ability to choose between different possible courses of action.

= voluntary choice or decision
= freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention.

Free Will describes our capacity to make choices that are genuinely our own. With free will comes moral responsibility – our ownership of our good and bad deeds.

I went to multiple web sites to find the definition of Free Will and they are all saying "choice"..

I'm not sure what your definition is but maybe you should use a different word to describe consept you are promoting.

When asked if we have FREE WILL? The English definition is what I think of.

Do we have freedom of choice? Yes. Are we accountable for our choice? Yes.

 

[BillyBob]

Do we have freedom of choice? Yes. Are we accountable for our choice? Yes.

I can see the freedom to make a choice. However, I do not see the ability to make a good choice based on our fallen nature. We must be enabled to make a choice pleasing to our Father/Creator. Freedom and ability are two different things!

 

[TMS]

I can see the freedom to make a choice. However, I do not see the ability to make a good choice based on our fallen nature. We must be enabled to make a choice pleasing to our Father/Creator. Freedom and ability are two different things!

Yes we are fallen and weak. Yes we lack the power but we can choose to accept the power of Jesus.
With Jesus, by Jesus, through Jesus we are enabled to do what is good and right.

I can choose to egnore the Holy Spirit or accept the Holy Spirit.

I can become so hardened in sin that I no longer hear or feel God's love, but that is a result of my choice.

The choice to read the Bible and understand God's love is mine and when I understand the love of God I am empowered with Gods love. The little choices have a big effect.

I know of people that have been slaves to sin and Like all of us we need to choose to come to Jesus and be freed.

 

[sawdust]

I disagree. Fallen man can fulfill his will, we can make a decision based on our understanding. The problem is that our thoughts are evil continually (we are not in agreement with the will of God). Therefore, we are unable to please Him. The ability to please Him – is only restored by a heart transplant, then we can please Him because we have been enabled to do so!

Do they really? Or do they chase the imaginings of their own desires?

 

[BillyBob]

Yes we are fallen and weak. Yes we lack the power but we can choose to accept the power of Jesus.
With Jesus, by Jesus, through Jesus we are enabled to do what is good and right.

I can choose to egnore the Holy Spirit or accept the Holy Spirit.

I can become so hardened in sin that I no longer hear or feel God's love, but that is a result of my choice.

The choice to read the Bible and understand God's love is mine and when I understand the love of God I am empowered with Gods love. The little choices have a big effect.

I know of people that have been slaves to sin and Like all of us we need to choose to come to Jesus and be freed.

I think that you give yourself credit for turning to God. I see it as part of His work to bring you to Him. That's where we differ.

 

[SonJudgment]

I can say she 100% voluntarily ate from the tree. She chose to base her decision on a lie. She knew God had said not to eat from the tree but she preferred the serpent's lie.

And no-one said anything about God being in error. As far as only God having a will? How you come up with that, is anyone's guess.
His judgements are correct but it's His power (grace) that gets that judgement done, not His will. If it were otherwise, the scripture would say the Gospel is the "will" of God unto salvation, but it doesn't.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is God’s power for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

If she based her decision on anything at all then it is not freewill, and if she had to be beguiled to make a decision it's not 100% voluntary. Congratulations you destroyed your own premise for me and confirmed mine. God's grace is his mercy, grace is something one doesn't deserve that's why it's grace. The gospel, which is truth is part of God's power, and also part of God's will, that Lamb slain before the foundation of the world and all, the Lord Jesus Christ. Just the same grace is part of his will just like his wrath revealed from heaven to destroy the wicked is part of his will and his power the truth is part of his will. Salvation and damnation are both part of God's will. How there will be no excuses for the unbelievers just like Romans 1 says.

Considering that other Books existed before the Torah that king David, Joshua, and others mention reading that also describe the Garden scene it's not really a fable. It's a stone cold fact.

There is no book in the Bible that comes before the Torah. What you're refering to are forgeries, which just by being forgeries that should probably tip you off that they are unreliable fiction.

 

[Kroogz]

Many have probably realised i don't think we can exercise free will, even think it's impossible for us to. Won't explain why i think it's an impossiblility for us yet, think it's useful for some to express why they think it exists first.

I have no doubt we have and can make choices throughout life, however, think our options are far more restricted than most realise. What do you think?

Yes. We have freewill.

The scary part.....Everyone who says "no." Their objective, drive and PASSION is to deny we have a choice for His Gospel. This should give any true believer great pause.

 

[Magenta]

Yes. We have freewill.

The scary part.....Everyone who says "no." Their objective, drive and PASSION is to deny we have a choice for His Gospel. This should give any true believer great pause.

What gives me pause is how many lie with such great ease.

 

[lrs68]

There is no book in the Bible that comes before the Torah. What you're refering to are forgeries, which just by being forgeries that should probably tip you off that they are unreliable fiction.

Lol, David and Joshua would have never promoted forgeries. Unbelievable!

 

[Genez]

Many have probably realised i don't think we can exercise free will, even think it's impossible for us to. Won't explain why i think it's an impossiblility for us yet, think it's useful for some to express why they think it exists first.

I have no doubt we have and can make choices throughout life, however, think our options are far more restricted than most realise. What do you think?

What do you think 'free will' would be, if we had it?
Give an example, please.


.........

 

[Genez]

What gives me pause is how many lie with such great ease.

That means? Free will.
It was their choice...

 

[SonJudgment]

Lol, David and Joshua would have never promoted forgeries. Unbelievable!

Do you realize that a forgery is just a counterfeit made in the name of something? You might as well just come out and say you're trying to refer to the book of Jasher which is a lost book. It is very well known that another book of Jasher was forged by a heretic from Britain in the 1700s AD.

Basically your argument is analogous to trying to convince someone that there are 25 hours in a day because a fake rolex says that there is, and when pointed out that the fake rolex is in fact not a real rolex turning around and saying well it has the word rolex stamped on it even though it's well known that the fake rolex was forged just last week in a well known fraudster's basement.

 

[Believer08]

Most definitely have free will.
He wants people to seek Him (Heb. 11:6). God is love (1 Jn. 4:8). We are told to seek the Lord (Acts 17:27). Other passages that tells us to seek are Matthew 6:33 (seek the kingdom of God), Matthew 7:7 (seek and ye shall find). He tells us to seek Him (Lam. 3:25, Prov. 8:17, Jer. 29:13, Amos 5:4, Isaiah 55:6). The Father seeks true worshippers (Jn. 4:23). We are to choose to serve Him (Joshua 24:15). There are passages all through the OT where we learn from examples to seek Him (Job 5:8; 1 Chron. 16:10- 11, Ps. 105:3-4, etc etc). And many more…(Psalms 27:8, Isaiah 55:6, Amos 5:4, Zephaniah 2:3, Malachi 3:1, 2 Chron. 15:2).

We also have the ability to choose life (Deut. 30:19), as well as come to Him (Rev. 22:17; Mt. 11:28).

 

[TMS]

I think that you give yourself credit for turning to God. I see it as part of His work to bring you to Him. That's where we differ.

No glory to me or anyone.
I think of it like a rescue mission.
God is rescuing us from sin

We are lost with no hope because of sin.
Like drowning in the ocean, God gives us a rope.

Does God only give some people the rope? Does He only help a selected few, Or does God offer it to everyone?

We choose if we take the rope. All glory and praise to God.

 

[Genez]

Calvinism is a travesty.
But, so is any false teaching that sucks in true believers.

 

[Believer08]

Calvinism is a travesty.

Amen.

 

[GWH]

I have no idea why you are angry with me so please explain. Thanks.

Again Jimbone, I certainly never intend to insult anyone but only to share my opinion about what GW says, which is to love everyone, so I apologize for not seeming to love you by whatever I said.