Are giants the offspring of angels and humans?

[posthuman]

Genesis 6:4​

There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore [children] to them. Those [were] the mighty men who [were] of old, men of renown.​

• why does it say daughters of men, as though purposefully and specifically differentiating between sons of not-men, if it really means daughters of unbelieving men? Christ elsewhere describes others as sons of Satan, and if that is the sense we should understand Genesis 6, the language is entirely inconsistent.
• why is it specifically daughters of men and not sons and daughters, or simply 'children'? both the racially mixed and religiously mixed views have no reply to this, because both religiously mixed and racially mixed marriages have male and female from either division. is there no such thing as a believing woman or an unbelieving man? or did Seth only have sons, and Cain only daughters? these are ridiculous and plainly false assumptions that must be adopted to support the religious or racial mixed views.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It's silly to have to keep repeating this, but for sake of the slow learners in the back of the class here are all of the verses in Job that say sons of God in the MT and angels of God in the LXX. Since the MT and the LXX are both scripture and these verses in each contradict each other, this renders Job inadmissible as evidence, and consequently a main pillar, actually probably the main pillar, of the sons of God argument falls.

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. Job 1:6 (MT)​

And it came to pass on a day, that behold, the angels of God came to stand before the Lord, and the devil came with them. Job 1:6 (LXX)​

​

Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. Job 2:1 (MT)​

And it came to pass on a certain day, that the angels of God came to stand before the Lord, and the devil came among them to stand before the Lord. Job 2:1 (LXX)​

​

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Job 38:7 (MT)​

When the stars were made, all my angels praised me with a loud voice. Job 38:7 (LXX)​

 

[posthuman]

It's silly to have to keep repeating this, but for sake of the slow learners in the back of the class here are all of the verses in Job that say sons of God in the MT and angels of God in the LXX. Since the MT and the LXX are both scripture and these verses in each contradict each other, this renders Job inadmissible as evidence, and consequently a main pillar, actually probably the main pillar, of the sons of God argument falls.

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. Job 1:6 (MT)​

And it came to pass on a day, that behold, the angels of God came to stand before the Lord, and the devil came with them. Job 1:6 (LXX)​

​

Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. Job 2:1 (MT)​

And it came to pass on a certain day, that the angels of God came to stand before the Lord, and the devil came among them to stand before the Lord. Job 2:1 (LXX)​

​

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Job 38:7 (MT)​

When the stars were made, all my angels praised me with a loud voice. Job 38:7 (LXX)​

we don't throw away scripture entirely just because you found a different translation.

this difference in fact shows that it was understood 'sons of God' is equivalent to angels.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

 

[Kroogz]

Genesis 6:4​

There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore [children] to them. Those [were] the mighty men who [were] of old, men of renown.​

• why does it say daughters of men, as though purposefully and specifically differentiating between sons of not-men, if it really means daughters of unbelieving men? Christ elsewhere describes others as sons of Satan, and if that is the sense we should understand Genesis 6, the language is entirely inconsistent.
• why is it specifically daughters of men and not sons and daughters, or simply 'children'? both the racially mixed and religiously mixed views have no reply to this, because both religiously mixed and racially mixed marriages have male and female from either division. is there no such thing as a believing woman or an unbelieving man? or did Seth only have sons, and Cain only daughters? these are ridiculous and plainly false assumptions that must be adopted to support the religious or racial mixed views.

Genesis 6:4​

There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore [children] to them. Those [were] the mighty men who [were] of old, men of renown.​

​

Isa 26:13-14​

O LORD our God, other lords besides you have ruled over us, but your name alone we bring to remembrance.​

They are dead, they will not live; they are shades, they will not arise; to that end you have visited them with destruction and wiped out all remembrance of them.​

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Horse isn't dead. The angels-are-sons argument is on life support

 

[lrs68]

Common sense and reasoning is a gift that some should pray for because only a handful actually believe the bunk ^ someone is pushing.

 

[Genez]

So at this point I'd say the strength of my argument that angels were never called sons of God is that scripture is clear that God has only one begotten son and all other sons are adopted. No one can come up with any mechanism for angels to be sons other than "reasons", ie made up speculation that has no basis in scripture. So proponents of this idea have resorted to the need to think outside of the box, which is just a ploy to move the discussion away from a scriptural anchor

The Masoretic Text version of Job that refers to angels as sons isn't valid evidence because the LXX has "angels of God". Since both are scripture, yet contradict each other, this point of evidence has to be thrown out, which removes a main pillar of the "angels are sons" argument

Strength of your argument?????

Is that what you tell yourself?

 

[Genez]

Horse isn't dead. The angels-are-sons argument is on life support

Who hired you to attempt a hit on the truth?

They are not getting their money's worth.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Common sense and reasoning is a gift that some should pray for because only a handful actually believe the bunk ^ someone is pushing.

I'd love to see you exhibit some common sense and reason rather than your drive-by assualts on common sense and reason with your nonsense that Hebrew words have to be interpreted via gematria

 

[Genez]

Should I quote Scripture to those who can not see Scripture?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Who hired you to attempt a hit on the truth?

They are not getting their money's worth.

Do you sell anything from your gallery except peanuts?

 

[Genez]

Do you sell anything from your gallery except peanuts?

You belong in a church with baby Christians, those first learning the Bible.
Those who know only a little...
You might get them to dig in to learn more to find out more truth to overcome your nonsense.

Otherwise...
You are a waste of time here for testing those who are positive to the Word of God and do know what they believe.

You have no idea what happens when the Spirit makes one to know truth....
You only try to fake it.

So be it.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

You belong in a church with baby Christians, those first learning the Bible.
Those who know only a little...
You might get them to dig in to learn more to find out more truth to overcome your nonsense.

Otherwise...
You are a waste of time here for testing those who are positive to the Word of God and do know what they believe.

You have no idea what happens when the Spirit makes one to know truth....
You only try to fake it.

So be it.

blah blah blah. Just more hit-and-run disparagement.

 

[posthuman]

Common sense and reasoning is a gift that some should pray for because only a handful actually believe the bunk ^ someone is pushing.

you're not wrong.

before i started spending a lot of time in Bible discussion forums like this, i had a naive idea that other believers were in general reasonable, and that persuasive argument could convince them of the truth
i.e. that we as Christians were different than ordinary people

but i have come to realize we are just like everyone else. pig-headed, obstinate, argumentative, half-blind, vain, unreasonable, totally sold on our imaginations and very difficult to deal with. i mean, i knew that about myself, but i had a pie-in-the-sky idea that i was an exception to the rule, particularly worse than everyone else.

as it is, 'common sense' is quite uncommon, and as a group Christians obey that rule, not defy it.

so, it became clear to me how much patience, kindness, mercy and the like mattered - that we should not give up, and be quick to forgive, and slow to be offended.

 

[posthuman]

that we should not give up, and be quick to forgive, and slow to be offended.

some call this 'beating a dead horse'

but if Christ is so patient with me, should i not also be so patient with others?

 

[lrs68]

you're not wrong.

before i started spending a lot of time in Bible discussion forums like this, i had a naive idea that other believers were in general reasonable, and that persuasive argument could convince them of the truth
i.e. that we as Christians were different than ordinary people

but i have come to realize we are just like everyone else. pig-headed, obstinate, argumentative, half-blind, vain, unreasonable, totally sold on our imaginations and very difficult to deal with. i mean, i knew that about myself, but i had a pie-in-the-sky idea that i was an exception to the rule, particularly worse than everyone else.

as it is, 'common sense' is quite uncommon, and as a group Christians obey that rule, not defy it.

so, it became clear to me how much patience, kindness, mercy and the like mattered - that we should not give up, and be quick to forgive, and slow to be offended.

Amen!

 

[lrs68]

I'd love to see you exhibit some common sense and reason rather than your drive-by assualts on common sense and reason with your nonsense that Hebrew words have to be interpreted via gematria

Bereshit 6:
1] Now as people began to multiply on the earth, daughters were born to them, 
2] and when the divine beings saw how fair were the human women, they took wives for themselves, as they chose. 
3] Then the Eternal One said, “My spirit will not forever endure the humans, as they are but fallible flesh—their lifespan shall be [only] 120 years.” 
4] The Nephilim were on earth in those days; and afterward, too, when the divine beings mated with the human women, they bore for them those heroes who from of old enjoyed great renown.
5] When the Eternal saw how great was the wickedness of human beings in the earth, that the direction of their thoughts was nothing but wicked all the time, 6] the Eternal regretted having made human beings on earth, and was heartsick. 7] So the Eternal thought: “I will wipe the humans whom I created from off the face of the earth—the humans, [and with them] the beasts, the reptiles, the birds of the sky—for I rue the day I made them.” 
8] But Noah found favor in the Eternal’s sight.
^
One translation

Second Hebrew translation confirming first translation

Bereshit 6
וַֽיְהִי֙ כִּֽי־הֵחֵ֣ל הָֽאָדָ֔ם לָרֹ֖ב עַל־פְּנֵ֣י הָֽאֲדָמָ֑ה וּבָנ֖וֹת יֻלְּד֥וּ לָהֶֽם׃
When humankind began to increase on earth and daughters were born to them,

וַיִּרְא֤וּ בְנֵי־הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙ אֶת־בְּנ֣וֹת הָֽאָדָ֔ם כִּ֥י טֹבֹ֖ת הֵ֑נָּה וַיִּקְח֤וּ לָהֶם֙ נָשִׁ֔ים מִכֹּ֖ל אֲשֶׁ֥ר בָּחָֽרוּ׃
the divine beings saw how pleasing the human women were and took wives from among those who delighted them.—

הַנְּפִלִ֞ים הָי֣וּ בָאָ֘רֶץ֮ בַּיָּמִ֣ים הָהֵם֒ וְגַ֣ם אַֽחֲרֵי־כֵ֗ן אֲשֶׁ֨ר יָבֹ֜אוּ בְּנֵ֤י הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־בְּנ֣וֹת הָֽאָדָ֔ם וְיָלְד֖וּ לָהֶ֑ם הֵ֧מָּה הַגִּבֹּרִ֛ים אֲשֶׁ֥ר מֵעוֹלָ֖ם אַנְשֵׁ֥י הַשֵּֽׁם׃ {פ}
It was then, and later too, that the Nephilim appeared on earth—when divine beings cohabited with the human women, who bore them offspring. Such were the heroes of old, the men of renown

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

 

[Genez]

blah blah blah. Just more hit-and-run disparagement.

Christ rose from the dead....

Why not you?