Can't wait for the tribulation to start

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Hmm, the devil (former name Lucipher) was kicked out long ago.....

Jesus said he saw satan fall from heaven, but he couldn't have meant at that point in time

And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Luke 10:18​

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because right before his death he said satan was still in heaven

Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. John 12:31​

​

But it couldn't have been at that time because Paul said that demonic powers still exist in heaven

To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, Ephesians 3:10​

​

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in heavenly places. Ephesians 6:12​

So John is referring to a future time when the kingdom of God comes into full authority. This happens right before the 2 witnesses begin their ministry

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. Revelation 12:9-10​

 

[Sanders]

Jesus said he saw satan fall from heaven, but he couldn't have meant at that point in time

And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Luke 10:18​

​

because right before his death he said satan was still in heaven

Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. John 12:31​

​

But it couldn't have been at that time because Paul said that demonic powers still exist in heaven

To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, Ephesians 3:10​

​

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in heavenly places. Ephesians 6:12​

So John is referring to a future time when the kingdom of God comes into full authority. This happens right before the 2 witnesses begin their ministry

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. Revelation 12:9-10​

He is the prince and power of the air. He does accuse us before God, with God's permission, but he certainly does not dwell there. He was removed and the host of rebellious angels. (Cited article) https://www.gotquestions.org/Satan-access.html Satan was originally one of God’s holy angels, but he rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven (Luke 10:18). That was only the first stage of his judgment. Satan’s kingdom was vanquished at the cross (John 12:31–32). Later, he will be bound in the abyss for one thousand years (Revelation 20:1–3) and then will be cast into the lake of fire for eternity (Revelation 20:10). Here are some other facts to note: 1) Satan does not have open access to God’s presence. He is summoned by God. 2) The visits are temporary. His time before God’s throne is limited. 3) In no way is the purity of heaven tainted by the brief, God-ordained presence of a sinful being, "quarantined," as it were, by God’s regulatory power. And, 4) Satan’s access is only granted prior to the final judgment. After the judgment, God creates a new heaven and new earth (Revelation 21:1), wipes away all tears from our eyes (verse 4), reveals the New Jerusalem (verse 10), and promises the complete absence of sin (verse 27). (Blessings to you)

 

[Sanders]

He is the prince and power of the air. He does accuse us before God, with God's permission, but he certainly does not dwell there. He was removed and the host of rebellious angels. (Cited article) https://www.gotquestions.org/Satan-access.html Satan was originally one of God’s holy angels, but he rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven (Luke 10:18). That was only the first stage of his judgment. Satan’s kingdom was vanquished at the cross (John 12:31–32). Later, he will be bound in the abyss for one thousand years (Revelation 20:1–3) and then will be cast into the lake of fire for eternity (Revelation 20:10). Here are some other facts to note: 1) Satan does not have open access to God’s presence. He is summoned by God. 2) The visits are temporary. His time before God’s throne is limited. 3) In no way is the purity of heaven tainted by the brief, God-ordained presence of a sinful being, "quarantined," as it were, by God’s regulatory power. And, 4) Satan’s access is only granted prior to the final judgment. After the judgment, God creates a new heaven and new earth (Revelation 21:1), wipes away all tears from our eyes (verse 4), reveals the New Jerusalem (verse 10), and promises the complete absence of sin (verse 27). (Blessings to you)

Heavenly places are not heaven. Remember the Word says he is the prince and power of the air. Refers to the heavens, not heaven itself.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

He is the prince and power of the air.

His kingdom is here (the air), but he still dwells in heaven, literally "above the air". This is the same place where we dwell in Christ, ie heaven

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: Ephesians 2:6​

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heavenly places
G2032 ἐπουράνιος epouranios (e-pou-ra'-niy-os) adj.
above the sky.

 

[Sanders]

His kingdom is here (the air), but he still dwells in heaven, literally "above the air". This is the same place where we dwell in Christ, ie heaven

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: Ephesians 2:6​

​

heavenly places
G2032 ἐπουράνιος epouranios (e-pou-ra'-niy-os) adj.
above the sky.

To each his own. I agree to disagree.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

To each his own. I agree to disagree.

You disagree that Christ is in heavenly places, or that satan operates from heavenly places? It's the same word

 

[Sanders]

You disagree that Christ is in heavenly places, or that satan operates from heavenly places? It's the same word

You disagree that Christ is in heavenly places, or that satan operates from heavenly places? It's the same word

I am bowing out of this conversation. God bless you.

 

[Mem]

You disagree that Christ is in heavenly places, or that satan operates from heavenly places? It's the same word

Being godly doesn't necessarily translates as being God.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Being godly doesn't necessarily translates as being God.

Of course not because they're not the same word. Paul said demonic spirits are in heavenly places. It's the same word as these and 16 other verses

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? John 3:12​

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: Ephesians 1:3​

 

[Mem]

Of course not because they're not the same word. Paul said demonic spirits are in heavenly places. It's the same word as these and 16 other verses

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? John 3:12​

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: Ephesians 1:3​

Yes, one word used is heaven, in regard to God's dwelling, and another is "above heaven", but how can any place be above where God dwells?

 

[ResidentAlien]

I don't think you have been reading my posts.

You're right, I haven't. I asked you a simple question but you won't give me a direct answer, so I have no intention of reading any of your posts until you do. I find guessing games quite boring. Is there a specific post you can direct me to that will answer my question?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Yes, one word used is heaven, in regard to God's dwelling, and another is "above heaven", but how can any place be above where God dwells?

One's a noun, the other's an adjective. Same word with one having the epi prefix meaning upon/over, but both obviosly refer to the same place. One thing is certain; neither of those words mean the ground, which is where satan is said to be cast into in Revelation 12:9

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Yes, one word used is heaven, in regard to God's dwelling, and another is "above heaven", but how can any place be above where God dwells?

The same pattern is seen using earth instead of heaven. Same word for earth ( n ) as for earthly ( adj ), with the latter having the epi prefix, meaning upon.

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? John 3:12​

​

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in heavenly places. Ephesians 6:12​

Earthly​

G1919 ἐπίγειος epigeios (e-piy'-ǰei-os) adj.​

1. (physically) earthly, terrestrial.​

​

Heavenly​

G2032 ἐπουράνιος epouranios (e-pou-ra'-niy-os) adj.​

above the sky.​

All of this proves satan is still in heaven, if you believe Paul and John

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Revelation 12:9​

​

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1 Thessalonians 4:16​

Earth​

G1093 γῆ ge (ǰee') n.​

1. soil​

​

Heaven​

G3772 οὐρανός ouranos (ou-ra-nos') n.​

1. the sky.​

2. (by extension) heaven (as the abode of God).​

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Yes, one word used is heaven, in regard to God's dwelling, and another is "above heaven", but how can any place be above where God dwells?

Look at "above heaven" as "upon heaven". The ancients believed the vault of the sky was a firmament upon which heavenly beings lived. In other words, earth was the foundation for human life and heaven was the foundation for divine life

G1909 ἐπί epi (e-piy') prep.
ἐπ- ep- (ep-) [alternate prefix]
ἐφ- eph- (ef-) [soft prefix]
1. (properly) upon

 

[JohnnyValentine]

Because it says they witness for 1260 days. Then they are dead for 3.5 days, resurrect, ascend and then the 7th trumpet blows and Christ returns.

I had to look it up again and re-read where it speaks about the witnesses, I apologize I had my facts mixed up about the subject. you appear to be correct, I will need to go back and study in that area again

 

[JohnnyValentine]

Hmm, the devil (former name Lucipher) was kicked out long ago.....

I Don't believe he's been kicked out in that capacity as of yet. I still struggle with the idea at times, but it makes the most sense to me at the moment.

If you know anything about the bible, prophecy, and history, they have repeating cycles. Just as God created Adam, then destroyed the earth but spared Noah and his family, Adam was the first beginning, Noah was the 2nd beginning. There are multiple instances of such things. I believe the devil was cast out but will be cast out again a 2nd time.

Job Speaks of the devil standing before the Lord with the Sons of God. I haven't completely come to terms with how it works, my best guess at the moment is his Access to the heavenly realm is extremely restricted and maybe even cannot come before the Lord of his own Accord but rather is summoned by the Lord in order for him to accuse and tempt.

Revelation is a big reason why I believe this as it speaks of heaven rejoicing but woe to the earth for he comes with great wrath because he knows he has a short time. I believe this refers to the 2nd and final casting out and the beginning of the tribulation.

But again, It's not a hill I'm willing to die on because it's still a grey area for me and I still have alot of studying to do on the subject.

Would love to hear your thoughts on it though.

 

[HeIsHere]

Good thing the "tribulation" has already occurred.

I do believe we post the cross and the resurrection and God has already executed His judgement on those whorj

On one hand ,Can't wait for the tribulation to start, so God can sort out the sheep From the goats, the good from the bad, the bad Christians from the good Christians. the just from the unjust.

I think he's going to turn things upside down. make the leadership of the Christian faith sweep the streets and clean up the dead bodies, where all the Christians at the bottom of the food chain, get to be the Kings and the priests.

Separate the fearful from the faithful the believers who are full of faith.

It's funny God always starts with his own people he's gonna clean us up first then after he's cleaned us up, he's gonna clean the world up.

All the leadership is worth today is to pass the milk bottle to the babes, the rest of it is so polluted it should be cast out and thrown to this swine. God will raise up his own leadership during the tribulation men and women of faith not men and women of fear like they are today.
False prophets have wriggled and wiggled themselves in to the Christian face making it impossible to find a decent Bunch That are not somehow polluted.

I deal with Christian leadership on a daily basis, it is full of fear and deceit and they think that's ok. Somehow they justify it to themselves thinking it's a part of God's plan unbelievable.
They're so desperate for it to be a pretribulation rapture that they hang on the tiniest threat of circumstantial evidence, to help justify in their hearts that they are right.
Maybe they're not ready to handle it so God has to send them strong delusion.

Good thing the "tribulation" has already occurred.

I do believe we are post the cross and the resurrection and God has already executed His judgement on those who rejected Him and then He brought that age to an end, just like He told His apostles He would do.

It is really a sad commentary on Christians when they are looking forward to death and destruction.

 

[JohnnyValentine]

Good thing the "tribulation" has already occurred.

I do believe we post the cross and the resurrection and God has already executed His judgement on those whorj



Good thing the "tribulation" has already occurred.

I do believe we are post the cross and the resurrection and God has already executed His judgement on those who rejected Him and then He brought that age to an end, just like He told His apostles He would do.

It is really a sad commentary on Christians when they are looking forward to death and destruction.

What makes you think the Tribulation has already come and Gone? I don't understand how a person comes to that Conclusion.

 

[HeIsHere]

What makes you think the Tribulation has already come and Gone? I don't understand how a person comes to that Conclusion.

In the age of information it is all available to you.

 

[Sanders]

I Don't believe he's been kicked out in that capacity as of yet. I still struggle with the idea at times, but it makes the most sense to me at the moment.

If you know anything about the bible, prophecy, and history, they have repeating cycles. Just as God created Adam, then destroyed the earth but spared Noah and his family, Adam was the first beginning, Noah was the 2nd beginning. There are multiple instances of such things. I believe the devil was cast out but will be cast out again a 2nd time.

Job Speaks of the devil standing before the Lord with the Sons of God. I haven't completely come to terms with how it works, my best guess at the moment is his Access to the heavenly realm is extremely restricted and maybe even cannot come before the Lord of his own Accord but rather is summoned by the Lord in order for him to accuse and tempt.

Revelation is a big reason why I believe this as it speaks of heaven rejoicing but woe to the earth for he comes with great wrath because he knows he has a short time. I believe this refers to the 2nd and final casting out and the beginning of the tribulation.

But again, It's not a hill I'm willing to die on because it's still a grey area for me and I still have alot of studying to do on the subject.

Would love to hear your thoughts on it though.

I hear you. I am learning also (forever a student of God and His word!) but was always under the belief that satan has limited access to the throne to accuse, etc. and only with God's permission. He's a created being too, God cast him out after his lust for God's position and sent a host of rebellious angels with him. He spoke through a serpent to tempt Eve, and then Adam caved with her to sin, thus failing in his leadership role. Such a disaster as we are enjoying the affects (add sarcasm) It's a huge topic indeed. I have done a little studying on "paradise" and "Heaven" and learned satan does not have access to the heaven (where we will be someday).....paradise is not the same. I won't debate and argue with anyone over it though. I don't believe it pleases God, Scripturally speaking too. However I know you're not debating with me, haha, so no worries. The older you get, the more you realize you know very little, the younger you are, you think you know everything. *It's one of those life lessons*