Matthew 24:40 Is the rapture secret?

[TheDivineWatermark]

Ok. Maybe I'm misunderstanding but it is not just the dead in Christ but we who are alive as well. IOW it is the whole Church, all those who are in Christ, from the day of Pentecost till the time of the Rapture.

Yes.

I am just explaining that "Rapture" is defined as "caught-up / snatched"... but "resurrection" speaks to being "bodily resurrected after having physically / bodily dead [/'sleep through Jesus']"... which part is what the section saying "the DEAD IN Christ shall RISE first [i.e. be bodily-resurrected from the dead; defined as "to stand again [on the earth]"] BEFORE we [which are ALIVE] are "caught up TOGETHER WITH them" in the same "snatch-action".

Many folks tend to CONFLATE the idea of "rapture [SNATCH]" with that of "resurrection ['to stand again' on the earth, after having physically/bodily DIED]"--which is what "the DEAD IN Christ SHALL RISE *first*" means--and therefore tend to misconstrue what THIS passage is actually saying. Hence why I'm pointing out that the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto" that point in time being spoken of in this text, do not require being "resurrected" because we won't have DIED to that point. Yes, both components ARE "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (to / for / about whom "RAPTURE [/SNATCH]" SOLELY pertains... and that Matthew 24 is NOT the Subject Jesus is covering ANYWHERE in His Olivet Discourse! Agreed!)

Hope that clears up any confusion.


We are basically in agreement!

(I just sought to clarify one small part that often causes confusion to many, who tend to incorrectly EQUATE the ideas of: "rapture [caught-up / snatch... "TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR"]" and "resurrection ['to stand again' on the earth, after having physically / bodily DIED]"
--"the DEAD IN Christ" who shall "RISE [be bodily-resurrected] *first* will ALSO be "caught-up / raptured / snatched" BECAUSE they are ALSO a component OF "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [ALL those "saved" in "this present age [singular]" [since the first century / Pentecost / indwelt with the Holy Spirit, per what Jesus was explaining per the wording of John 7:39, as well as what Eph1:20-23 spells out: "WHEN [as to its existence]"]).




Matthew 24:29-31 (and its CONTEXT--the Olivet Discourse [its "future" parts]), on the other hand, refers to that which Isaiah 27:9,12-13 had ALREADY spoken of (note WHO, and TO WHERE, and IN WHAT MANNER *they* will be gathered, and BY WHOM, and to WHAT PURPOSE--completely distinct from everything pertaining to "our Rapture [/SNATCH]").
Note here that verse 9 of Isa27 corresponds with both Rom11:27 and Dan9:24 [parts]... note again "WHO"

 

[randyk]

@As in the days before the Flood, men were oblivious to the judgment that was coming. The same exists today.”

yes those who don’t accept the gospel are unaware , those who do are taught about that judgement to come .

It returns always to who hears and believes the gospel those who do can’t avoid knowing about the coming judgement

honestly regarding “the great tribulation “my opinion is it was about the foret century of Jerusalem and the disciples of Jesus until 70 ad . And has nothing to do with the second coming of Jesus at the end of the world

My opinion is just as those scriptures say 1 Jesus will return at the end of the world 2 gather his people both the dead and still living and 3 destroy the rest with fire

and that day isn’t going to be part o a seven year period of trouble or any trying like that but it will be just another normal day as the world turns and suddenly Jesus will return

the great tribulation is fulfillment of prophecy regarding Israel’s desolation n first century ……but again it’s just my opinion based on scripture and how I have understood it doesn’t mean it’s the end all be all

Well, I have a certain agreement with Preterists and with Dispensationalists both. I do believe that when Jesus spoke of the "Great Tribulation" he was speaking of what began in the 1st century with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

But then the trouble was only beginning for the Jewish People because they were taken into exile, which we now call the "Jewish Diaspora." Jesus seemed to indicate this "Great Tribulation" would last until the end of the age with his Return.

What made this Tribulation "Great" is the fact it was the greatest punishment God has ever visited upon the Jewish People--certainly not because it was the most intense as a punishment, because what could commpare with Romans burning Christians or hanging Jews on the cross in the 1st century? Or, what could be worse in intensity with the Holocaust of WW2?

No, I think Jesus was speaking of the sheer length of time this Jewish Diaspora, or exile, has lasted. Compared with the 70 year exile of Israel during the Babylonian Captivity, the Jewish Diaspora is far, far greater in length, and certainly brought into question whether the Jewish People would even survive as a people.

On the other hand, I agree with Dispensationalists that the Reign of Antichrist will continue the Tribulation of the present age against God's People, whether Jew or Christian. It just is not, in my view, the "Final Judgment" of the age, which takes splace immediately before Christ's Reutnr, primarily Armageddon itself.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Well, I have a certain agreement with Preterists and with Dispensationalists both. I do believe that when Jesus spoke of the "Great Tribulation" he was speaking of what began in the 1st century with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

But then the trouble was only beginning for the Jewish People because they were taken into exile, which we now call the "Jewish Diaspora." Jesus seemed to indicate this "Great Tribulation" would last until the end of the age with his Return.

What made this Tribulation "Great" is the fact it was the greatest punishment God has ever visited upon the Jewish People--certainly not because it was the most intense as a punishment, because what could commpare with Romans burning Christians or hanging Jews on the cross in the 1st century? Or, what could be worse in intensity with the Holocaust of WW2?

No, I think Jesus was speaking of the sheer length of time this Jewish Diaspora, or exile, has lasted. Compared with the 70 year exile of Israel during the Babylonian Captivity, the Jewish Diaspora is far, far greater in length, and certainly brought into question whether the Jewish People would even survive as a people.

On the other hand, I agree with Dispensationalists that the Reign of Antichrist will continue the Tribulation of the present age against God's People, whether Jew or Christian. It just is not, in my view, the "Final Judgment" of the age, which takes splace immediately before Christ's Reutnr, primarily Armageddon itself.

Yea it’s alright to disagree

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes.

I am just explaining that "Rapture" is defined as "caught-up / snatched"... but "resurrection" speaks to being "bodily resurrected after having physically / bodily dead [/'sleep through Jesus']"... which part is what the section saying "the DEAD IN Christ shall RISE first [i.e. be bodily-resurrected from the dead; defined as "to stand again [on the earth]"] BEFORE we [which are ALIVE] are "caught up TOGETHER WITH them" in the same "snatch-action".

Many folks tend to CONFLATE the idea of "rapture [SNATCH]" with that of "resurrection ['to stand again' on the earth, after having physically/bodily DIED]"--which is what "the DEAD IN Christ SHALL RISE *first*" means--and therefore tend to misconstrue what THIS passage is actually saying. Hence why I'm pointing out that the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto" that point in time being spoken of in this text, do not require being "resurrected" because we won't have DIED to that point. Yes, both components ARE "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (to / for / about whom "RAPTURE [/SNATCH]" SOLELY pertains... and that Matthew 24 is NOT the Subject Jesus is covering ANYWHERE in His Olivet Discourse! Agreed!)

Hope that clears up any confusion.


We are basically in agreement!

(I just sought to clarify one small part that often causes confusion to many, who tend to incorrectly EQUATE the ideas of: "rapture [caught-up / snatch... "TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR"]" and "resurrection ['to stand again' on the earth, after having physically / bodily DIED]"
--"the DEAD IN Christ" who shall "RISE [be bodily-resurrected] *first* will ALSO be "caught-up / raptured / snatched" BECAUSE they are ALSO a component OF "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [ALL those "saved" in "this present age [singular]" [since the first century / Pentecost / indwelt with the Holy Spirit, per what Jesus was explaining per the wording of John 7:39, as well as what Eph1:20-23 spells out: "WHEN [as to its existence]"]).




Matthew 24:29-31 (and its CONTEXT--the Olivet Discourse [its "future" parts]), on the other hand, refers to that which Isaiah 27:9,12-13 had ALREADY spoken of (note WHO, and TO WHERE, and IN WHAT MANNER *they* will be gathered, and BY WHOM, and to WHAT PURPOSE--completely distinct from everything pertaining to "our Rapture [/SNATCH]").
Note here that verse 9 of Isa27 corresponds with both Rom11:27 and Dan9:24 [parts]... note again "WHO"

“I am just explaining that "Rapture" is defined as "caught-up / snatched"... but "resurrection" speaks to being "bodily resurrected after having physically / bodily dead [/'sleep through Jesus']"... which part is what the section saying "the DEAD IN Christ shall RISE first [i.e. be bodily-resurrected from the dead; defined as "to stand again [on the earth”

the physical bodies aren’t what rises up if you read the context of what he’s saying it starts here with the question “ how will the dead be raised up ? With what body will they rise ?

“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: it is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:35, 42-44‬ ‭

But those alive when Jesus returns will be changed instantaneously to thier spiritual glory as Gods children and the flesh will be left behind but the spirit will be revealed in us all

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound,

and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,

and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:50-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the natural or physical dies and returns to dust we were made from originally but the spirit God gave us to live within the flesh body slept when tbier body died ….later raises up to him for judgement. the final judgement is of spiritual people after tbier body already either died or they were alive when Jesus returns and were instantly changed from flesh to spirit

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But there’s life in him and not death if we hear and believe

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. ….

….Verily, verily, I ( Jesus the savior and Lord ) say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live the dead will live again ) and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.( the living who believe will never die )

Believest thou this? She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

….Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:21-22, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the more of what Jesus said in the gospel we listen to and accept as truth the more beneficial the gospel becomes to increase faith and belief in him and also the promises grow greater as we realize there truly is nothing beyond him and we really only know what he said for us to know why wouldn’t we believe him prayerfully inquiring into the things he promised believers in him?

If to a man who believed in him and was nailed to a cross beside him hoirs from death he said this

“And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s also things like this to consider in prophecy

“Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, and shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭37:12-14‬ ‭

And fulfillment

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And then realize there’s a resurrection that was promised to israel in tbe ot according to thier covenant promises through Moses and the prophets. And there’s a second resurrection Jesus promised to Christian’s at the end of the new covenant when he returns that all the dead will be raised up.

 

[sawdust]

Hope that clears up any confusion.

Yes, I understand what you meant now. Thanks.

 

[randyk]

“I am just explaining that "Rapture" is defined as "caught-up / snatched"... but "resurrection" speaks to being "bodily resurrected after having physically / bodily dead [/'sleep through Jesus']"... which part is what the section saying "the DEAD IN Christ shall RISE first [i.e. be bodily-resurrected from the dead; defined as "to stand again [on the earth”

the physical bodies aren’t what rises up if you read the context of what he’s saying it starts here with the question “ how will the dead be raised up ? With what body will they rise ?...

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;....


there’s also things like this to consider in prophecy

“Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, and shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭37:12-14‬ ‭

And fulfillment

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And then realize there’s a resurrection that was promised to israel in tbe ot according to thier covenant promises through Moses and the prophets. And there’s a second resurrection Jesus promised to Christian’s at the end of the new covenant when he returns that all the dead will be raised up.

I agree that the Resurrection is distinct, in a sense, from the Rapture. It is part of the same event, and yet separate, since those who are seized/raptured are those who are "alive and remain," while those who are "in their graves" are simply brought out of their graves.

I don't distinguish between Israel's resurrection and the resurrection at the 2nd Coming. "Coming out of the grave" is somehwat of a metaphorical way of stating "resurrection." The spirits of departed saints are actually in heaven with God, and not in their actual graves.

Israel is restored at the time when the saints of both Israel and the nations are resurrected and given authority over the nations. And so, Israel's national resurrection, which is a physical restoration on earth, is simultaneous with the resurrection of the Jewish saints, which takes place at the same time as the resurrection of saints from many nations. My opinion only....