The one and the same or not?

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SpeakWhatYouSee

New member
#61
Nov 28, 2024
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#61
SaysWhat said:
Just because God knows the choices people make beforehand doesn't mean it's a test. Like Adam and Eve God didn't test them by forcing them to hide among the trees. God speaks within human comprehension, so it may seem like He is asking a question and He is except He knows the answer like a teacher teaching a class.
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Can you or anyone reading this give an example where the word the words ....NOW I KNOW..... does not suggests the presence of uncertainty, or not knowing beforehand.

I would add into the mix that God himself states that he is a jealous God.

Is it really so unreasonable to suggest that If Abraham's love/focus on God was lessoned by his Son that God would not want to test this?

Afteralk, Who tolerates uncertainty?
 
S

SpeakWhatYouSee

New member
#62
Nov 28, 2024
29
8
3
#62
bluto said:
Let me make this whole issue of your understanding simple. Genesis 3:9 states, "Then the Lord God called to the man, and said where are you?" Now, don't you think the Lord knew where Adam was hiding because Adam realized he and Eve had sinned against God? In fact look at verse 7, "For the eyes of both of them were opened and they knew they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings." Now do you get it, I hope!

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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Can you then give an example where using the words ....NOW I KNOW..... does not suggests the presence of some uncertainty, or not knowing?

If not then why not accept the meaning of these very same words clearly written in the bible?
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#63
Aug 4, 2016
2,124
541
113
#63
SpeakWhatYouSee said:
Can you then give an example where using the words ....NOW I KNOW..... does not suggests the presence of some uncertainty, or not knowing?

If not then why not accept the meaning of these very same words clearly written in the bible?
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The short answer to your question is a resounding "NO." Your asking me to prove a negative and in logic this is known as an argument from silence which is an irrational question. I cannot demonstrate what God has "NOT DONE," No one can.

For example, can you tell where in the book of Acts does it explicitly say that Jesus Christ is God? Since it does not say so then Jesus Christ is not God. This is the kind of damaged logic your employing with your question? But, at 2 Peter 1:1 Peter describes Jesus as "our God and Savior." ONLY positive assertions can even possibly be proven and as such only positive assertions bear any burden of proof.

So, in short, an argument from silence--where the conclusion is based on the absence of evidence, rather than the existence of evidence cannot be proven. Don't quit your day job and become a lawyer!

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
S

SpeakWhatYouSee

New member
#64
Nov 28, 2024
29
8
3
#64
bluto said:
The short answer to your question is a resounding "NO." Your asking me to prove a negative and in logic this is known as an argument from silence which is an irrational question. I cannot demonstrate what God has "NOT DONE," No one can.

For example, can you tell where in the book of Acts does it explicitly say that Jesus Christ is God? Since it does not say so then Jesus Christ is not God. This is the kind of damaged logic your employing with your question? But, at 2 Peter 1:1 Peter describes Jesus as "our God and Savior." ONLY positive assertions can even possibly be proven and as such only positive assertions bear any burden of proof.

So, in short, an argument from silence--where the conclusion is based on the absence of evidence, rather than the existence of evidence cannot be proven. Don't quit your day job and become a lawyer!

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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* I cannot demonstrate what God has "NOT DONE," No one can. ------ God has NOT yet called final judgement of all men on this earth because the world would be a far better harmonious place to live!!
Is this NOT true?
 
SaysWhat

SaysWhat

Active member
#65
Jan 17, 2024
294
58
28
#65
SpeakWhatYouSee said:
Can you or anyone reading this give an example where the word the words ....NOW I KNOW..... does not suggests the presence of uncertainty, or not knowing beforehand.

I would add into the mix that God himself states that he is a jealous God.

Is it really so unreasonable to suggest that If Abraham's love/focus on God was lessoned by his Son that God would not want to test this?

Afteralk, Who tolerates uncertainty?
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It shows a present no matter the time. You are focusing on a moment in time when God is limited by it.

John 8:56
Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see My day. He saw it and was glad.”
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#67
May 21, 2023
965
144
43
#67
bluto said:
The short answer to your question is a resounding "NO." Your asking me to prove a negative and in logic this is known as an argument from silence which is an irrational question. I cannot demonstrate what God has "NOT DONE," No one can.

For example, can you tell where in the book of Acts does it explicitly say that Jesus Christ is God? Since it does not say so then Jesus Christ is not God. This is the kind of damaged logic your employing with your question? But, at 2 Peter 1:1 Peter describes Jesus as "our God and Savior." ONLY positive assertions can even possibly be proven and as such only positive assertions bear any burden of proof.

So, in short, an argument from silence--where the conclusion is based on the absence of evidence, rather than the existence of evidence cannot be proven. Don't quit your day job and become a lawyer!

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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I do not believe that SpeakWhatYouSee is demanding you prove a negative. He is simply pointing out that unless there is a reason to claim that "now I see" does not mean a sense of uncertainty why should we assume it does.
 
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bluto

Senior Member
#68
Aug 4, 2016
2,124
541
113
#68
Lamar said:
I do not believe that SpeakWhatYouSee is demanding you prove a negative. He is simply pointing out that unless there is a reason to claim that "now I see" does not mean a sense of uncertainty why should we assume it does.
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I think you might have a point and the following example suggest your point. is valid. "I read the article about the new study. Now I know that the benefits of exercise extend beyond physical health." In this case, the person previously lacked this knowledge, but the information gained from reading the article has filled the gap."

Now, this example is dealing with the common man now knowing the benefits of exercise etc. But his question is asking about God not knowing. I already explained to him that God knows everything because God is "omniscient" so his point is "moot" as it relates to God Almighty.

So, my question is how does he "reconcile" God not knowing for a certainty with God knowing how many grains of sand there are at Hunting Beach California with certainty?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#69
May 21, 2023
965
144
43
#69
bluto said:
I think you might have a point and the following example suggest your point. is valid. "I read the article about the new study. Now I know that the benefits of exercise extend beyond physical health." In this case, the person previously lacked this knowledge, but the information gained from reading the article has filled the gap."

Now, this example is dealing with the common man now knowing the benefits of exercise etc. But his question is asking about God not knowing. I already explained to him that God knows everything because God is "omniscient" so his point is "moot" as it relates to God Almighty.

So, my question is how does he "reconcile" God not knowing for a certainty with God knowing how many grains of sand there are at Hunting Beach California with certainty?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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God is all knowing, it is part of His divine nature.

God knows in advance who will obey or refuse His commands.

God knew that Abraham and Moses would obey but He also knew that Cain and King Saul would disobey, nevertheless God still gave them His commands.

So why is Genesis 22:12 written is such a way as to imply uncertainty on God's part?

The bible is written for our understanding to convey God's will to us.

The examples recorded in the bible are for us to understand that we decide to obey or not. Some will (Moses & Abraham) and some will not (Cain & King Saul). God knowing in advance does not force our choice.

It is this understanding that Mordecai stressed to Esther when her time to choose arrived.

This is my understanding of "now I know", I do not know if SpeakWhatYouSee is in agreement.
 
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