Understanding God’s election

[Magenta]

The natural man is blinded by the god of this world. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man is a lover of darkness. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man is a slave to sin. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
Devoid of faith, the natural man's righteous acts are like filthy rags. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
As such, the natural man cannot please God. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man is of the flesh which profits nothing. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man is captive to the will of the devil. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man is hostile in his mind toward God. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man suppresses the truth in unrighteousness. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man cannot receive the spiritual things of God. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man cannot know the spiritual things of God. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man does not seek after God. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man cannot come to God on his own. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man hears the gospel as foolishness. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man is helpless and ungodly. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man is by nature a child of wrath. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man cannot submit to God's law. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man is dead in his sins. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man is in need of a spiritual rebirth. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man requires heart circumcision so he may love God. <= I wonder how many here deny that.

The Bible teaches that we sin because we are sinners. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that God alone is good. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that a bad tree cannot produce good fruit. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that all (as natural men) are under the control of the evil one. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that we need to be rescued. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that man’s heart is deceitful and desperately wicked. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that man is born dead in transgression and sin. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that the natural man is held captive by a love for sin. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that the natural man will not seek God. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that the natural man loves the darkness. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that the natural man does not understand the things of God. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that the natural man suppress the truth of God in unrighteousness. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that the natural man continues to willfully live in sin. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that the natural man's sinful lifestyle seems right to men. <= I wonder how many here deny that.

 

[HeIsHere]

The God of the Bible is the only one Christians know.
What god are you worshipping that you would refer to them.

We can start with a first principle "Love is never coercive."

Not sure how god does not force regeneration if the person is not even aware they have been chosen to be regenerated.

Does he send them a message ahead of the big day?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

God created them before men were fallen.
Omniscient God created all before men were ever born.

The key is in understanding how God would not cause belief, or unbelief..
Yet, all created free like the angels to choose.

I should have added a question mark there. Both were sinners, only one recognized it and His need of a Savior.

 

[Rufus]

Ummm? Gonna have to fill me in on that one.




How so? If I stuck a gun to your head and say " Love me!!!" I'm pretty sure you'd do at least a decent act to save your sin. That's not God, He wants us to choose to serve Him.

You're asking me, "how so?" You're the one who doesn't believe in effectual calling or irresistible grace, remember?

Also, before a bad tree can bear good fruit (a choice to serve God, for example), the tree must first be made good. Bad trees cannot make good spiritual choices.

 

[Magenta]

We can start with a first principle "Love is never coercive."

Not sure how god does not force regeneration if the person is not even aware they have been chosen to be regenerated.

Does he send them a message ahead of the big day?

Well your first statement is a flat-out lie, and the Bible confirms this.

You ought to give up man's philosophy and stick with Scripture.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

God is not under obligation to save anyone! He does as He pleases! The very fact that you question him lets us all know that you believe that you should be god!

I think you're as confused as your avatar. God obligated Himself to save those who believe in Him and call upon his name. He made that promise. If you serve a g-od that doesn't keep promises that's up to you. But the God of the Bible is bound to His Word and He WILL keep His promises. There is no need to question Him. What Bible are you reading???! If you can't trust God to keep His promises, than you can't trust in your salvation. Your comment sounds ridiculous, like someone who has never read a Bible in their life.

 

[Magenta]

I think you're as confused as your avatar. God obligated Himself to save those who believe in Him and call upon his name. He made that promise. If you serve a g-od that doesn't keep promises that's up to you. But the God of the Bible is bound to His Word and He WILL keep His promises. There is no need to question Him. What Bible are you reading???! If you can't trust God to keep His promises, than you can't trust in your salvation. Your comment sounds ridiculous, like someone who has never read a Bible in their life.

Actually BillyBob is one of the very nicest guys here, and not confused at all...

 

[Rufus]

Somebody tell poor @Magenta that in proper context the sheep and goats are NATIONS.
And the whole scenario only comes about AFTER the Second Coming.

[Mat 25:32 KJV]
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:

So the Calvintes set sail on a totally bogus soteriological odyssey predicated upon an hoax of their own design did they?
Poor blind nut-starved Calvinites. How they deserve our pity.

Would someone please tell this wanna-be Einstein that in this world at least (as opposed to Einstein's universe) nations consist of people -- a community or body of people, usually of many nationalities. Nations are made up of lots of individuals -- to state the obvious. If the above passage had read that many peoples we gathered, it would not change the sense of the text at all.

 

[HeIsHere]

the sense of the text at all.

The sense being the sheep are those who believed in /had faith in Christ Jesus, not had a switch turned on/ and or regenerated.

 

[Cranberry]

We can start with a first principle "Love is never coercive."

Not sure how god does not force regeneration if the person is not even aware they have been chosen to be regenerated.

Does he send them a message ahead of the big day?

I suggest you ask your lower case g god your question.

Christians here do not possess the carnal spirit and its language as you do.

 

[Rufus]

I think you're as confused as your avatar. God obligated Himself to save those who believe in Him and call upon his name. He made that promise. If you serve a g-od that doesn't keep promises that's up to you. But the God of the Bible is bound to His Word and He WILL keep His promises. There is no need to question Him. What Bible are you reading???! If you can't trust God to keep His promises, than you can't trust in your salvation. Your comment sounds ridiculous, like someone who has never read a Bible in their life.

Your lack of self-awareness is very obvious, revealing how deep your self-deception runs. Your own words condemn your FWT! Could not any Calvinist equally say that God did indeed "obligate" himself to save his chosen people, to save his elect, to save all those whom he predestined in eternity? But none of these are saying that God was ever obligated to save anyone at all. ! He certainly felt no obligation toward the fallen angels, did he? God could have saved no fallen man either and he would be just as righteous and fair in doing so, as he was with the fallen angels.

 

[HeIsHere]

I suggest you ask your lower case g god your question.

Christians here do not possess the carnal spirit and its language as you do.

I, in good conscience can not ascribe to a god who is malevolent towards his own creation, a small g is suitable for this god.

 

[Magenta]

The sense being the sheep are those who believed in /had faith in Christ Jesus, not had a switch turned on/ and or regenerated.

It is called heart circumcision. Getting your terminology correct perhaps hopefully will assist in your understanding.

Just think of that stony heart the natural man has. The Bible says a good tree
cannot grow there and in Jesus' own words a bad tree cannot produce good fruit.

 

[Magenta]

I in good conscience not ascribe to a god who is malevolent towards his own creation, a small g is suitable for this god.

Malevolent? Do you deny that man is responsible for the evil he does?

Oh, wait... is this about the natural man being that good guy in your theology???

Despite Jesus saying there are none good but God alone?

 

[Genez]

Your concern seemed to be the person's salvation. It seems that God has been known to open the hearts and understanding of people in the Bible. Why wouldn't you want that for someone?

You make it almost sound like that other person's salvation might depend upon what you ask God to do?

Rest assured. God wants souls saved infinitely more than we do.

 

[Genez]

This kind of reply provides strong evidence that FWers very likiely don't pray to God for the salvation of lost souls. .

Its just the opposite....

 

[Rufus]

We can start with a first principle "Love is never coercive."

Not sure how god does not force regeneration if the person is not even aware they have been chosen to be regenerated.

Does he send them a message ahead of the big day?

I have a better first principle: Love proactively does Good for others! If God were but a passive spectator watching the world go by through his cosmic crystal ball and not actively rescuing His people, He could not possibly be God as he represents himself to be in Holy Writ. Biblical love is always proactive. It seeks the welfare of others. Having said that in no way implies that God proactively seeks the welfare of the entire world in the distributive sense, since God is not morally obligated to save anyone.

 

[Cranberry]

I, in good conscience can not ascribe to a god who is malevolent towards his own creation, a small g is suitable for this god.

It's your deity. Do as you wish.

 

[shittim]

They were criminals, they were there because they were convicted. They were sinful, one of them recognized that when he said they were guilty but Jesus had done nothing wrong. He admitted his sin, and that he deserved to die for it.

ok, and the other one repented and believed and was saved, like you and I.

 

[HeIsHere]

The problem with fallen man is that he has lost the ability to turn to God.

So far this "scripture" that man is born unable to turn to God and believe his Good News to all humanity has not been put in evidence.
Lots about man's depravity but not his born inability"

Do you have that scripture?