Understanding God’s election

[Magenta]

The Greek in Ephesians 2:8 makes it very clear.

The entire 'doctrines of grace" fails on this one statement correctly understood in the original language and linguistics, although God knows the propaganda against this has been churned out over and over again.

Rightly divided, the Word reveals that one believes in their heart, which is not possible in the stony heart of a person who is hostile in their mind to God ... plainly spoken, the Truth cannot take fruitful root in such a heart... even Paul acknowledged that he needed to be rescued because he was sold into sin and a slave to it ... and that it was Jesus Christ who rescued him, not his so-called free will. He freely acknowledged that his will was not free, and you would do well to do the same.

 

[Cameron143]

The Greek in Ephesians 2:8 makes it very clear.

The entire 'doctrines of grace" fails on this one statement correctly understood in the original language and linguistics, although God knows the propaganda against this has been churned out over and over again.

The Greek in Ephesians 2:5 reveals regeneration before faith. And God is certainly aware when someone is being disingenuous with scripture.

 

[HeIsHere]

It's also notable:

At that time in history, the elect of God were rejecting Him and the non-elect were being saved.

Good point, yes.

 

[HeIsHere]

The Greek in Ephesians 2:5 reveals regeneration before faith. And God is certainly aware when someone is being disingenuous with scripture.

It cannot based on Ephesians 2:8.
Sorry scripture does not contradict itself.
Believe as you will, I pray others will not.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 7:18-24a I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law. But I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!

 

[rogerg]

Faith cannot be the antecedent of "that" (Ephesians 2:8)

End of story, not. Did you actually read and understand Eph 2:8?

I'll use the NIV since it appears that you do. Do you see the "not from yourselves" and "the gift of God"?
That means everything needed for salvation was achieved by God alone, otherwise, the verses contradicts itself.
Therefore, the grace AND the faith, are all of those gifts, them being from God. Christ provided it all, man provided nothing.

[Eph 2:8-9 NIV]
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

 

[Cameron143]

It cannot based on Ephesians 2:8.
Sorry scripture does not contradict itself.
Believe as you will, I pray others will not.

Then you should ask God for greater enlightenment, because what you now believe, you have scripture not saying what it clearly says.
At any rate, I had again confirmed what I already knew was true of you.
Grace and peace.

 

[rogerg]

The entire 'doctrines of grace" fails

The doctrine of grace fails? You can't be serious, unless, that is, your belief is in works! Is that your point - that salvation
is by works? Yes, or no?

 

[rogerg]

Then you should ask God for greater enlightenment, because what you now believe, you have scripture not saying what it clearly says.
At any rate, I had again confirmed what I already knew was true of you.
Grace and peace.

Yeah, I'm about at that point now myself.

 

[Magenta]

The doctrine of grace fails? You can't be serious, unless, that is, your belief is in works! Is that your point - that salvation
is by works? Yes, or no?

It would seem obvious that in their mind making the moral decision to believe is the work they did to save themselves.

 

[HeIsHere]

The doctrine of grace fails? You can't be serious, unless, that is, your belief is in works! Is that your point - that salvation
is by works? Yes, or no?

Salvation is not by works.
Regeneration does not precede faith and faith is not a work.

It is pretty simple really.

 

[cv5]

Yeah, the faith that is IN Christ's blood. Not that the faith is towards Christ.

Since when does anybody already possess saving faith before they were ever born to begin with?
Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[HeIsHere]

Then you should ask God for greater enlightenment, because what you now believe, you have scripture not saying what it clearly says.
At any rate, I had again confirmed what I already knew was true of you.
Grace and peace.

Likewise!

I am thankful for those who support biblical soteriology on here and without a doubt we have the consistent interpretation of scripture which is born out of the proper hermeneutics of full context of the verses, audience relevance and grammar of the original language.

 

[Magenta]

I am thankful for those who support biblical soteriology on here and without a doubt we have the consistent interpretation of scripture which is born out of the proper hermeneutics of full context of the verses, audience relevance and grammar of the original language.

Thank you!

 

[rogerg]

It would seem obvious that in their mind making the moral decision to believe is the work they did to save themselves.

Yes, agree. I thought that regardless of how wrong it is, they nevertheless, would somehow try to force it under grace. But, by @HeIsHere's reply, however, it sounds like he's (?) pretty much discarding any fig leaf regarding God's grace for salvation
and now their belief is out in the open, that it solely by works.

 

[HeIsHere]

Yes, agree. I thought that regardless of how wrong it is, they nevertheless, would somehow try to force it under grace. But, by @HeIsHere's reply, however, it sounds like he's (?) pretty much discarding any fig leaf regarding God's grace for salvation
and now their belief is out in the open, that it solely by works.

Faith is not a work.

 

[rogerg]

Since when does anybody already possess saving faith before they were ever born to begin with?
Doesn't make sense to me.

They don't possess it. Our faith is not what saves us; Christ's faith is what saves us. The saving faith is Christ's faith. That's what make Him the Savior. Our faith comes as a result of His salvation; it does not bring us salvation - it is result not cause. Before being born, we are chosen to be saved but becoming saved itself occurs at a point in time in our lives of God's choosing.

 

[Cameron143]

Thank you!

 

[Magenta]

Yes, agree. I thought that regardless of how wrong it is, they nevertheless, would somehow try to force it under grace. But, by @HeIsHere's reply, however, it sounds like he's (?) pretty much discarding any fig leaf regarding God's grace for salvation
and now their belief is out in the open, that it solely by works.

Well, they deny the need for personal Spiritual revelation, claiming it is unnecessary, and makes God unfair, even though Jesus affirmed it, and it really is God keeping His promise, which they find the confirmation of by others something to despise.

 

[cv5]

This means that Colossians 2:12, where “faith (of) the working of God,” following the consistent pattern everywhere else, must mean “faith IN the working of God.”
.

Hhhmmmm. Could be referring to the ASSURANCE in the operation of God.
Probably does. A perfect fit.

Another Calvinite myth bites the dust eh?

[Col 2:12 KJV]
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the assurance G4102 of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

[Act 17:31 KJV]
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by [that] man whom he hath ordained; [whereof] he hath given assurance[G4102] unto all [men], in that he hath raised him from the dead.

[Heb 10:22 KJV]
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith,[G4102] having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.