Apologetics: witnessing to atheists
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Imagine that you have suddenly begun to exist as a mentally competent or normally intelligent human being (like Adam and Eve in Genesis). Certainly, your immediate concern would be meeting your survival needs, but as soon as there was time for reflection, would you not wonder why you were “born”, how you should behave, and what you ought to accomplish with your life?
Since absolute skepticism or agnosticism is unattainable for thinkers or truthseekers, there are only two qualitatively different ways of answering these questions. One way is by assuming that there is no ultimate “whyness” or purpose beyond survival and avoiding pain, so it does not ultimately matter what one believes or does, because humanity merely evolved from eternal energy/matter, into which it “devolves” at death. You may desire for some reason to survive and to save the world, but if life becomes too painful you may wish you were never born and want to destroy the world, because there is no good reason you ought to be like Messiah rather than like Mania or to be loving rather than maniacal. You may believe and act like evil exists or not, because life is a farce or a continual “King of the Hill” (KOTH) struggle against human adversaries and various other types of adversity, having no ultimate or universal moral imperative (UMI).
The second type of answer is that life is NOT a farce—that existence has meaning, and how one believes and behaves does matter for some non-arbitrary reason. This answer seems more appealing to me and almost logically imperative, although some people appear to prefer the paths of nihilism and KOTH (cf. MT 13:14-15).
I call the first type of answer cosmaterialism, because it views reality as consisting only of the material cosmos or universe and as having only four dimensions (space plus time), which are perceived by the five physical senses, implying a perpetual history of KOTH. I call the second way of believing moralism, because—while accepting the reality of the physical/material—it also affirms a fifth dimension perceived by a sixth intuitive or spiritual sense that gives reality a logical basis for meaning and morality (which means for ending KOTH
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The choice between cosmaterialism and moralism logically is the first fundamental choice in life (cf. GN 3:5). It can be thought of as a watershed decision that divides all people into two essentially different philosophical categories or world-views like a continental divide, although the analogy breaks down at the points the various oceans connect. A person who believes cosmaterialism, moral nihilism and that life’s struggles are meaningless frequently tends to seek escape even via suicide, whether by one act or by a downward spiral of self-destructive behavior. Again, until and unless this option were somehow proven beyond doubt, moralism or viewing life as meaningful seems to be the better belief.
Since absolute skepticism or agnosticism is unattainable for thinkers or truthseekers, there are only two qualitatively different ways of answering these questions. One way is by assuming that there is no ultimate “whyness” or purpose beyond survival and avoiding pain, so it does not ultimately matter what one believes or does, because humanity merely evolved from eternal energy/matter, into which it “devolves” at death. You may desire for some reason to survive and to save the world, but if life becomes too painful you may wish you were never born and want to destroy the world, because there is no good reason you ought to be like Messiah rather than like Mania or to be loving rather than maniacal. You may believe and act like evil exists or not, because life is a farce or a continual “King of the Hill” (KOTH) struggle against human adversaries and various other types of adversity, having no ultimate or universal moral imperative (UMI).
The second type of answer is that life is NOT a farce—that existence has meaning, and how one believes and behaves does matter for some non-arbitrary reason. This answer seems more appealing to me and almost logically imperative, although some people appear to prefer the paths of nihilism and KOTH (cf. MT 13:14-15).
I call the first type of answer cosmaterialism, because it views reality as consisting only of the material cosmos or universe and as having only four dimensions (space plus time), which are perceived by the five physical senses, implying a perpetual history of KOTH. I call the second way of believing moralism, because—while accepting the reality of the physical/material—it also affirms a fifth dimension perceived by a sixth intuitive or spiritual sense that gives reality a logical basis for meaning and morality (which means for ending KOTH
.The choice between cosmaterialism and moralism logically is the first fundamental choice in life (cf. GN 3:5). It can be thought of as a watershed decision that divides all people into two essentially different philosophical categories or world-views like a continental divide, although the analogy breaks down at the points the various oceans connect. A person who believes cosmaterialism, moral nihilism and that life’s struggles are meaningless frequently tends to seek escape even via suicide, whether by one act or by a downward spiral of self-destructive behavior. Again, until and unless this option were somehow proven beyond doubt, moralism or viewing life as meaningful seems to be the better belief.
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Thanks, and with that encouragement I will proceed to presenting the second watershed decision, which flows immediately and implicitly from the moralist viewpoint (like major rivers from one side of the Divide)—choosing what (or who) to believe gives existence meaning and under-girds moral conscience.
As one analyzes the variety of moralistic beliefs, there seem to be four main viewpoints extant in the world:
1. the ground of meaning/morality is human power (humanism, cf. GN 11:4),
2. there is a natural moral law or karma in the universe (karmaism, cf. GL 6:7),
3. there is natural “meaning” with an instinct or proclivity toward morality (naturalism, cf. RM 2:14),
4. a supernatural Supreme Being exists, especially biblical and especially NT monotheism (belief in one God, GN 17:1&DT6:4, EPH4:6).
Examining the evidence for the various viewpoints makes it evident that the only viable alternative to atheism in its diverse forms is NT theism, which reformed the OT concept of God by revealing that the one almighty God is also all-loving (per 1TM 2:3-7). It views God as creating and communicating by means of His Word (GN 1 & Logos in JN 1:1), and it affirms that the world is created intentionally rather than accidentally “banged” from a “singularity” (RM 1:20&25).
The atheist opinion indicates that the existence of a supernatural Deity is not proven and it asserts that one cannot prove a negative, so the burden is on theists to prove God exists. However, this assertion assumes God is not the positive “I AM”, the essence of existence (EX 3:14). A neutral statement about ultimate reality is the following: “It is logical to remain open to believing all credible possibilities (those which present sufficient evidence) and to hope the most desirable rational possibility is true.” Alternatively, the Bible indicates that the purpose of this life is rather for humans to prove to God they are worthy of—or qualify for—heaven (cf. DT 6:16 & MT 4:7).
This discussion shows that everyone lives by faith regarding God or ultimate reality (2CR 5:7), and the structure of earthly reality forces souls to choose between various contradictory beliefs and to make (albeit sometimes rather subconsciously) the two watershed choices described: between nihilism and moralism, and between the various atheistic beliefs and the highest type of theism, NT Christianity. (I believe the last is best: Let there be God! :^)
As one analyzes the variety of moralistic beliefs, there seem to be four main viewpoints extant in the world:
1. the ground of meaning/morality is human power (humanism, cf. GN 11:4),
2. there is a natural moral law or karma in the universe (karmaism, cf. GL 6:7),
3. there is natural “meaning” with an instinct or proclivity toward morality (naturalism, cf. RM 2:14),
4. a supernatural Supreme Being exists, especially biblical and especially NT monotheism (belief in one God, GN 17:1&DT6:4, EPH4:6).
Examining the evidence for the various viewpoints makes it evident that the only viable alternative to atheism in its diverse forms is NT theism, which reformed the OT concept of God by revealing that the one almighty God is also all-loving (per 1TM 2:3-7). It views God as creating and communicating by means of His Word (GN 1 & Logos in JN 1:1), and it affirms that the world is created intentionally rather than accidentally “banged” from a “singularity” (RM 1:20&25).
The atheist opinion indicates that the existence of a supernatural Deity is not proven and it asserts that one cannot prove a negative, so the burden is on theists to prove God exists. However, this assertion assumes God is not the positive “I AM”, the essence of existence (EX 3:14). A neutral statement about ultimate reality is the following: “It is logical to remain open to believing all credible possibilities (those which present sufficient evidence) and to hope the most desirable rational possibility is true.” Alternatively, the Bible indicates that the purpose of this life is rather for humans to prove to God they are worthy of—or qualify for—heaven (cf. DT 6:16 & MT 4:7).
This discussion shows that everyone lives by faith regarding God or ultimate reality (2CR 5:7), and the structure of earthly reality forces souls to choose between various contradictory beliefs and to make (albeit sometimes rather subconsciously) the two watershed choices described: between nihilism and moralism, and between the various atheistic beliefs and the highest type of theism, NT Christianity. (I believe the last is best: Let there be God! :^)
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Atheists claim there is no more evidence for the existence of God, the Creator and Judge of humanity, than for the reality of obviously fictional entities, such as Odin or unicorns. However, four types of evidence or reasoning may be viewed as supporting rational belief in God, although they do not prove He exists: the unique universe, theocentric human history, existential need and moral conscience.
Current scientific theory states that the universe expanded with a “bang” when a singularity of energy exploded, and that it will end with a “whimper” when the stars eventually fade to darkness. This unique universe theory is compatible or consistent with belief in a God who created the universe “ex nihilo”, who sustains it by His power, and who will judge its moral agents at the end of time.
Current knowledge of world history suggests that humanity descended from one genetic source and evolved into various cultures. Throughout history humanity has perceived deity to be the ground of meaning and morality. Theocentric history reached its apex or spiritual climax with the NT teaching that there is one almighty and all-loving God, who desires all humanity to live in harmony on earth and also in heaven, and who allows humanity to experience earthly existence including pain and disappointment for the purpose of teaching them their need for Him (cf. HB 12:10).
Current existential reality indicates that mortals need God in order to obtain immortality, that morality needs God for a universal imperative and ultimate justice, and that the NT offers the best hope that this “duo of desirables” (DOD) or heaven and justice/hell can be attained. Just as physical needs are satisfied by material realities, perhaps our metaphysical needs indicate the reality of supernatural solutions (the God of the DOD).
Moral conscience indicates and logically requires accountability to a moral authority, and the supreme Authority would be God. Paul wrote (in RM 1:32 & 2:15) that people “know God’s decree that those who do evil deserve death” and that their consciences “show that the requirements of the [God’s moral] law are written on their hearts.” Our feeble attempts at earthly justice may reflect or serve as evidence of God’s perfect justice. (This has similarities with Platonic idealism, cf. 1CR 13:12, HB 8:5, 9:23 & 10:1). We may perceive perfect justice partially (1CR 13:9-12) using spiritual eyes/intuition/a sixth sense along with inference, logic, and even imagination. [Slashes indicate equivalent terms.]
Current scientific theory states that the universe expanded with a “bang” when a singularity of energy exploded, and that it will end with a “whimper” when the stars eventually fade to darkness. This unique universe theory is compatible or consistent with belief in a God who created the universe “ex nihilo”, who sustains it by His power, and who will judge its moral agents at the end of time.
Current knowledge of world history suggests that humanity descended from one genetic source and evolved into various cultures. Throughout history humanity has perceived deity to be the ground of meaning and morality. Theocentric history reached its apex or spiritual climax with the NT teaching that there is one almighty and all-loving God, who desires all humanity to live in harmony on earth and also in heaven, and who allows humanity to experience earthly existence including pain and disappointment for the purpose of teaching them their need for Him (cf. HB 12:10).
Current existential reality indicates that mortals need God in order to obtain immortality, that morality needs God for a universal imperative and ultimate justice, and that the NT offers the best hope that this “duo of desirables” (DOD) or heaven and justice/hell can be attained. Just as physical needs are satisfied by material realities, perhaps our metaphysical needs indicate the reality of supernatural solutions (the God of the DOD).
Moral conscience indicates and logically requires accountability to a moral authority, and the supreme Authority would be God. Paul wrote (in RM 1:32 & 2:15) that people “know God’s decree that those who do evil deserve death” and that their consciences “show that the requirements of the [God’s moral] law are written on their hearts.” Our feeble attempts at earthly justice may reflect or serve as evidence of God’s perfect justice. (This has similarities with Platonic idealism, cf. 1CR 13:12, HB 8:5, 9:23 & 10:1). We may perceive perfect justice partially (1CR 13:9-12) using spiritual eyes/intuition/a sixth sense along with inference, logic, and even imagination. [Slashes indicate equivalent terms.]
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This evidence is not proof, but because this hope and belief are based on evidence and logic, it is rational rather than “blind”, and it is made even more intellectually reasonable or defensible by acknowledging ways God would be disproved, which include the following:
1. If atheists or anti-christians created eternal life, because the Bible teaches that eternal life is God’s gift only to believers in Him (JN 3:16).
2. If the body of Jesus of Nazareth were discovered in a tomb, because Paul stated that if Christ is not resurrected, then faith is useless (1CR 15:14).
3. If it were proven that moral free will (MFW) is an illusion, because the premise of biblical morality is that human souls are accountable (DT 30:19-20).
4. If human-like beings on another planet had no salvation history involving God and Christ, because the Bible teaches that God is Lord of all (PHP 2:9-11). (Caveat: If they are included in the Great Commission, their history would be like the OT.)
5. If God could prove His existence to people without abrogating free will (cf. 2CR 5:7), but apparently God performs miracles only as necessary to accomplish His plan of salvation (see Part VI).
6. If it were proved that the universe is not created, because resurrection or re-creation presupposes creation and thus a Creator (ACTS 17:24-31).
1. If atheists or anti-christians created eternal life, because the Bible teaches that eternal life is God’s gift only to believers in Him (JN 3:16).
2. If the body of Jesus of Nazareth were discovered in a tomb, because Paul stated that if Christ is not resurrected, then faith is useless (1CR 15:14).
3. If it were proven that moral free will (MFW) is an illusion, because the premise of biblical morality is that human souls are accountable (DT 30:19-20).
4. If human-like beings on another planet had no salvation history involving God and Christ, because the Bible teaches that God is Lord of all (PHP 2:9-11). (Caveat: If they are included in the Great Commission, their history would be like the OT.)
5. If God could prove His existence to people without abrogating free will (cf. 2CR 5:7), but apparently God performs miracles only as necessary to accomplish His plan of salvation (see Part VI).
6. If it were proved that the universe is not created, because resurrection or re-creation presupposes creation and thus a Creator (ACTS 17:24-31).
Adam and Woman shifted their focus to their survival needs only after the fall. Prior, they saw themselves as spirits clothed in flesh (that is why they did not perceive themselves to be naked) Personally, they were like their Father, God, who had no concern for provision or protection. All resources required for life were provided by their Father. They had no need.
It is only after they elevated the needs of the flesh to prominence, that they began to identify with their container. The first order of business was to hide from their Father, Who now, in their minds, threatened their existence. Why? Because they perceived that life was in the flesh and God could undo flesh as simple as He made it. They lost all understanding that life was in the Spirit that was within them.
Again, the Truth is not moral, or moralism as you put it. Truth is actually a person.
“I am (Jesus) the way and the truth and the life."
Life begins and ends at the connection to God, the I Am. And, because this is spiritual, it's only through revelation that we may find any logic in it: but that is for the renewing of the mind of our souls that have elevated provision and protection of the body to primacy.
The ministry of reconciliation, then, is returning man to the original state before the fall; when his identity was connected to the spirit in him which is from God. In this, man has no need for concern about provision:
Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?
or protection:
So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
Adam and Woman did not begin their existence in a vacuum. They knew themselves as they knew their Father: as spirit. We must begin there to understand why, for what reason and how we are to be reconciled to God our Father.
It is only after they elevated the needs of the flesh to prominence, that they began to identify with their container. The first order of business was to hide from their Father, Who now, in their minds, threatened their existence. Why? Because they perceived that life was in the flesh and God could undo flesh as simple as He made it. They lost all understanding that life was in the Spirit that was within them.
Again, the Truth is not moral, or moralism as you put it. Truth is actually a person.
“I am (Jesus) the way and the truth and the life."
Life begins and ends at the connection to God, the I Am. And, because this is spiritual, it's only through revelation that we may find any logic in it: but that is for the renewing of the mind of our souls that have elevated provision and protection of the body to primacy.
The ministry of reconciliation, then, is returning man to the original state before the fall; when his identity was connected to the spirit in him which is from God. In this, man has no need for concern about provision:
Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?
or protection:
So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
Adam and Woman did not begin their existence in a vacuum. They knew themselves as they knew their Father: as spirit. We must begin there to understand why, for what reason and how we are to be reconciled to God our Father.
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Re my scenario: It envisions existence post Eden.
Re Truth: Yes, Jesus embodies it, and the HS/GW communicates it.
Re "We must begin there to understand why, for what reason and how we are to be reconciled to God our Father.": Yes, and that is what apologetics endeavors to lead atheists to do. Looking forward to more of your input regarding this effort.
Re Truth: Yes, Jesus embodies it, and the HS/GW communicates it.
Re "We must begin there to understand why, for what reason and how we are to be reconciled to God our Father.": Yes, and that is what apologetics endeavors to lead atheists to do. Looking forward to more of your input regarding this effort.
That's literally and scientifically impossible, not sure how many PHDs you have in this subject Major, but i would first read Aaron's words about your comments in regards to Adam and Eve's survival needs.
1. If atheists or anti-Christians created eternal life, because the Bible teaches that eternal life is God’s gift only to believers in Him (JN 3:16).
2. If the body of Jesus of Nazareth were discovered in a tomb, because Paul stated that if Christ is not resurrected, then faith is useless (1CR 15:14).
3. If it were proven that moral free will (MFW) is an illusion, because the premise of biblical morality is that human souls are accountable (DT 30:19-20).
4. If human-like beings on another planet had no salvation history involving God and Christ, because the Bible teaches that God is Lord of all (PHP 2:9-11). (Caveat: If they are included in the Great Commission, their history would be like the OT.)
5. If God could prove His existence to people without abrogating free will (cf. 2CR 5:7), but apparently God performs miracles only as necessary to accomplish His plan of salvation.
6. If it were proved that the universe is not created, because resurrection or re-creation presupposes creation and thus a Creator (ACTS 17:24-31).
So PTL and pass me the atheists! :^)
Sigh.
I think you need a vacation.
Okay let's go through your confusions major.
No one can create eternal life, it's literally impossible scientifically because it requires finite resources which will run out of the universe due to increasing entropy where nothing will exist in the extremely far future. (current understanding)
I asked you a few weeks ago if you wanted to discuss interesting things like gene modification or AI or uploading consciousness in a computer.
But you didn't have any interest for any of that because you want to talk about abortion all day.
So let me know if you want to discuss these things in detail.
This is also impossible because He was seen by 500 people after resurrection, besides His apostles. Have you seen Lee Strobel's analysis on this?
Hahah. Good one. Ask the fish to prove that he's in a fish tank by going outside the tank.
Good one!
LOL
Bro, people might have a hard time understanding your Bible interpretations in Somalia, nevermind an alien species.
I don't quite understand this.
Hahah.
Yeah, ask the fish to go outside of the fish bowl and take a photograph of the bowl.
I think you need a vacation.
Okay let's go through your confusions major.
No one can create eternal life, it's literally impossible scientifically because it requires finite resources which will run out of the universe due to increasing entropy where nothing will exist in the extremely far future. (current understanding)
I asked you a few weeks ago if you wanted to discuss interesting things like gene modification or AI or uploading consciousness in a computer.
But you didn't have any interest for any of that because you want to talk about abortion all day.
So let me know if you want to discuss these things in detail.
This is also impossible because He was seen by 500 people after resurrection, besides His apostles. Have you seen Lee Strobel's analysis on this?
Hahah. Good one. Ask the fish to prove that he's in a fish tank by going outside the tank.
Good one!
LOL
Bro, people might have a hard time understanding your Bible interpretations in Somalia, nevermind an alien species.
I don't quite understand this.
Hahah.
Yeah, ask the fish to go outside of the fish bowl and take a photograph of the bowl.
Sigh.
I think you need a vacation.
Okay let's go through your confusions major.
No one can create eternal life, it's literally impossible scientifically because it requires finite resources which will run out of the universe due to increasing entropy where nothing will exist in the extremely far future. (current understanding)
I asked you a few weeks ago if you wanted to discuss interesting things like gene modification or AI or uploading consciousness in a computer.
But you didn't have any interest for any of that because you want to talk about abortion all day.
So let me know if you want to discuss these things in detail.
This is also impossible because He was seen by 500 people after resurrection, besides His apostles. Have you seen Lee Strobel's analysis on this?
Hahah. Good one. Ask the fish to prove that he's in a fish tank by going outside the tank.
Good one!
LOL
Bro, people might have a hard time understanding your Bible interpretations in Somalia, nevermind an alien species.
I don't quite understand this.
Hahah.
Yeah, ask the fish to go outside of the fish bowl and take a photograph of the bowl.
I think you need a vacation.
Okay let's go through your confusions major.
No one can create eternal life, it's literally impossible scientifically because it requires finite resources which will run out of the universe due to increasing entropy where nothing will exist in the extremely far future. (current understanding)
I asked you a few weeks ago if you wanted to discuss interesting things like gene modification or AI or uploading consciousness in a computer.
But you didn't have any interest for any of that because you want to talk about abortion all day.
So let me know if you want to discuss these things in detail.
This is also impossible because He was seen by 500 people after resurrection, besides His apostles. Have you seen Lee Strobel's analysis on this?
Hahah. Good one. Ask the fish to prove that he's in a fish tank by going outside the tank.
Good one!
LOL
Bro, people might have a hard time understanding your Bible interpretations in Somalia, nevermind an alien species.
I don't quite understand this.
Hahah.
Yeah, ask the fish to go outside of the fish bowl and take a photograph of the bowl.
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