Why do some people believe and some do not?
- Thread starter Hakawaka
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Manna in the wilderness had to be collected every day. Same with the hidden manna
Power was given that we may love God, which entails knowing Who He really is and no longer being in that place of not knowing and not understanding and rejecting the gospel. Knowing God encompasses coming to understand the things of God including the gospel message. And yes, Paul spoke of carnal Christians, since none are freed entirely from their fleshly bodies while we walk this world. The issue here though is people claiming the will is free before Jesus sets us free. They believe they had that power before it was given of God, and they make no distinction between the spiritual man who has that power and the natural man who does not.
Again, on the surface I have no issue with this. I do however see the emphasis in the people He's specifically addressing being "coming to Him" which is parallel to believing into Him which is typically John's language for initial belief that He is the Christ the Son of God.
Would you retranslate Jesus' answer in 6:29 to provide better clarity? Or just explain it?
When God changes our heart? He gives us new desires. This naturally affects the will to pursue our new desires, of
coming to know Him better, that we may love Him more, and understand our place in creation as much as we are able.
Also we are told that it is God's will working in us, to will and to do the things He had planned for us to do.
For it is God who works in you, both to will and to do for His good pleasure. Surely there are corroborating verses.
Romans 8:28
And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose.
Ephesians 3:20
Now to Him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to His power that is at work within us,
Hebrews 13:21
equip you with every good thing to do His will. And may He accomplish in us what
is pleasing in His sight through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.
2 Corinthians 3:5
Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim that anything comes from us, but our competence comes from God.
Colossians 1:29
To this end I also labor, striving with all His energy working powerfully within me.
1 Corinthians 12:6
There are different ways of working, but the same God works all things in all people.
I don't know how to better explain what is plainly spoken. You're speaking from a hidden perspective or issue that's seeking an answer because there is an objection somewhere. I don't know what that objection is to be able to address it
A gift is given toward an object of the gift. So, I assume that we are equipped with it, as factory stock, to put toward that of our choosing.
I am not sure I know what you mean? When our heart is circumcised, when we are raised to new life in Christ, when we are sealed with the promised Holy Spirit of God upon believing that which was hidden to us before... all these are realities that affect how we then live our life, though the exact order of these events or how far apart from each other they transpire I cannot say, and though many claim they all happen at once I know they did not for me, yet it would be the sealing that is last, of the three things mentioned.
You're speculating and wrong about me having an objection. Again, my questions re: 28 and 29 are simple even if it may be difficult to answer them. I think it requires some work in the language and a willingness to be more precise in translating the ambiguous "of" (work(s) of God).
You are one of the very few, if any, that say what you said re: faith being work. I've agreed with what Jesus is clearly commanding in 6:27. My questions re: this work is how you deal with the not of works passages.
What I'm asking you to begin with, since you seem to let Scripture say what it says, is to clarify how you see 28-29 in the context of 27.
πονηρός (poneros, G4190)
κακός (kakos G2556)
G5337 φαῦλος phaulos
The answer is in your post. Circumcision of the heart is just figurative language for cleansing of the heart because physical circumcision is more hygienic than uncircumcision.
What happens when the heart is cleansed? The holy spirit can now live inside of it
What happens when the holy spirit is in our hearts 24/7 forever? We receive continual, intimate instruction and guidance from God on how to walk and please him.
That is the transformation. Nothing has changed about our physical nature or soul; we have simply received the life of God in our hearts because he has dealt with the issues that caused him to depart from man in the garden
κακός (kakos G2556)
G5337 φαῦλος phaulos
The answer is in your post. Circumcision of the heart is just figurative language for cleansing of the heart because physical circumcision is more hygienic than uncircumcision.
What happens when the heart is cleansed? The holy spirit can now live inside of it
What happens when the holy spirit is in our hearts 24/7 forever? We receive continual, intimate instruction and guidance from God on how to walk and please him.
That is the transformation. Nothing has changed about our physical nature or soul; we have simply received the life of God in our hearts because he has dealt with the issues that caused him to depart from man in the garden
OK well this is what you were getting at. When Paul talks about works he's referring specifically to the law of Moses, ie doing the law. He's not talking about works of faith
I believe it is more than just a device of figurative language, but the majority do not experience it in any way that they can relate to in any physical sense that transects or interfaces with the spiritual. This is likely at least in part one of the reasons for lack of understanding. It is kind of similar to how when someone arrives and says to us, they were born a Christian, or have been a Christian all their life. We know that is simply not true, but they have no sense of when they did not believe, and so deny the things said of the natural man because they do not believe they were ever that person and reject all that is said of him.
Fair enough.
I see you posting Greek words and Strongs references. Do you work in the Greek language or solely use interlinear type tools on one or some of the Bible websites that provide them?
It's purely figurative. There is no circumcision of the heart because the heart doesn't have a foreskin. It's figurative language for cleansing. And really nothing has changed in our heart except for the presence of the holy spirit, which does change our heart as we obey it and grow into the image of Christ
btw those 3 Greek words were not intended for that post. I'm doing a study on the different words that are translated evil and had them pasted in the post window for later use
See post below yours why those words were there. I use software interlinears: Apostolic Bible Polyglot in TheWord bible software for Greek (NT and LXX) and Scripture4all for Greek NT and Hebrew OT