Why do some people believe and some do not?

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sawdust

sawdust

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
This is really turning into an interesting conversation. You are almost 100% correct IMO. Either the translators were sloppy when they translated different Greek words as the same English word evil, or it's a limitation of the English language that causes this confusion.

However, I say 'almost' because humans do not have to learn to do evil; they will do so naturally because of their fallen nature, ie separation from God,
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Yes, but you had no idea it was evil until someone taught you. Everyone must learn what is good and what is evil.

Maybe this is news to you but some people actually enjoy evil, they prefer it which is why some believe and some don't. And those who don't prefer evil? It has nothing to do with being smarter or better or any other glorious attribute people want to foolishly apply, it simply is the way we are. There are believers and there are unbelievers and the two will never mix like oil and water.
 
sawdust

sawdust

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
I'm wondering how people who are opposing your view think God transforms them
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To be honest, I think it's more a matter of not truly understanding what I'm saying more than actually opposing it.

If you don't know where a person is coming from, it can be hard to follow where they are going. :)
 
S

studier

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Apr 18, 2024
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#483
Mem said:
God's grace is extended, indeed, though that phrase is so often taken in such a short way. But that leaves faith, and so raises the question that, if God does not provide everyone with some measure of faith, then isn't His grace at least narrowed to a select few, or shortened in some way? I can't think so.
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So, this is going back to a discussion about Faith being a gift?
 
Mem

Mem

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Sep 23, 2014
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Mem said:
That faith is a gift is a given if there isn't anything that isn't a gift.
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Speaking of gift, what is love? ... I signed on to pose a question of will about love. Are we equipped with the capability to actually "will" to love? Regardless of that answer, I think we would all agree that it is love that is what we're 'missing,' a complete love.
 
Mem

Mem

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Forgive me for composing my thoughts impromptu, but they are sporadic. Or maybe I thought again imagining the reception when I dare to declare.... dun dun duuuuun.... that, just as love, Faith is a work of the will.
...that only the Spirit can calibrate.
 
C

ChristRoseFromTheDead

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Nov 1, 2024
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#487
sawdust said:
Maybe this is news to you but some people actually enjoy evil, they prefer it which is why some believe and some don't. And those who don't prefer evil? It has nothing to do with being smarter or better or any other glorious attribute people want to foolishly apply, it simply is the way we are. There are believers and there are unbelievers and the two will never mix like oil and water.
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I think it's a bit deeper than just some randomly choose the light and some don't. Believers were foreknown and chosen before the world began. Does that mean God simply knew who would randomly believe and chose them to be his, or did his purpose designate who his children would be and he ordered events to mold and shape them to hear and follow his voice? I don't anything is random with God
 
cv5

cv5

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Melach said:
unreal.

paul responded the way he did because GOD had mercy and grace on him.....
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Paul responded (positively) TO the grace and mercy provided.
Anybody can. Many ignore. Many respond negatively.

The Calvinites live in the "negative zone". Its appalling.
 
S

studier

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#492
Apr 18, 2024
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#492
Mem said:
That faith is a gift is a given if there isn't anything that isn't a gift.
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I guess we can say that existence is a gift but that doesn't preclude responsibility for what to do with it.

And as an example, I guess I'd question any insistence that Satan and sin is a gift, so I suppose we'd have to focus on what is meant by "everything".

The "Faith is a gift" discussion is best had over actual Scripture. You seem to have begun with Eph2.
 
cv5

cv5

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#493
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
I'm wondering how people who are opposing your view think God transforms them
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Those who CHOOSE to SEEK Gods face and then plead to be transformed get the good gift of transforming.
Nothing could POSSIBLY be more clear than these passages.
All of which together are indisputable proof that the heretical dogma of Calvinite-ism needs to be abandoned once and for all.

COMMAND (ask seek knock) - RESPONSE (receive find opened)
God is the Prime Mover, Initiator and the GIVER, we are the respondents, beneficiaries, and RECEIVER of the gifts OFFERED.

NOT COMPLICATED. And no bizarre and useless esoteric Greek philosophy required to get the job done.

[Luk 11:9 KJV]
And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

[Luk 11:10 KJV]
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

[Luk 11:11 KJV]
If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if [he ask] a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

[Luk 11:12 KJV]
Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

[Luk 11:13 KJV]
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
 
cv5

cv5

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#497
Kroogz said:
This is a big point of doctrine. What is your definition of evil?
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This guy. And believing this guy.

Mat 6:13
And do not lead us into temptation, (to believe the lies by which Eve and the angels fell)
But deliver us from the evil one. (Satan the purveyor of these lies)
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen

And the horrific fact is that the Calvinites DO believe this guy.
Their whole bogus dogma is built upon his lies. Juiced up and whitewashed with vain useless Greek sophistry.
 
C

ChristRoseFromTheDead

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#498
studier said:
The "Faith is a gift" discussion is best had over actual Scripture. You seem to have begun with Eph2.
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Jesus said faith is work, which is something men do by an act of their will

Labor not for the meat which perisheth, but for that food which endures into everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that you believe into him whom he has sent. John 6:27-29​
 
cv5

cv5

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#499
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Jesus said faith is a work, which is something men do by an act of their will

Labor not for the meat which perisheth, but for that food which endures into everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that you believe into him whom he has sent. John 6:27-29​
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Good grief man Jesus is setting up an ironic CONTRAST here. Not an equivalency!

And DENOUNCING the wayward Jewish system of USELESS works.

Laboring vs giving. Works vs belief.
Jesus is saying that belief is NOT a work. And NOTHING like the useless Jewish system.
 
S

studier

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Apr 18, 2024
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#500
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Jesus said faith is work, which is something men do by an act of their will

Labor not for the meat which perisheth, but for that food which endures into everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that you believe into him whom he has sent. John 6:27-29​
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You'd have to elaborate and explain what the wording means as you see it. To begin:
  • Did Jesus command them to work to receive what He gives - the food that remains into/for eternal life?
  • What exactly are they asking Him - "What shall we do..."?
  • What exactly is Jesus telling them - "This is the work of God..."?
 
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