Is a disciple who is no longer a disciple and cut off from the covenant eternally saved?
1John 1:9 Let's talk about it..
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Is a disciple who is no longer a disciple and cut off from the covenant eternally saved?
Yes, it is a hypothetical. What if I change the hypothetical to someone other than Peter and ask what happens with a professing Christian who is told by several other Christians of his need for forgiveness and cleansing from sins during his walk, and that professing Christian disagrees and never deals with sins as the Lord has provided for him to do?
Still ignorance?
What did Jesus mean when He told Peter he'd have no part/share with Him if Jesus didn't wash his feet?
You have no idea seems to be an answer anyway.
To clarify, you also don't know what have no share with Jesus means?
OK, then what does being cut off from the covenant mean? Any implications or elaboration?
One part willful and one part ignorance.
Because WHO willingly walks away from Jesus who has TRULY met him and has a positive relationship with Jesus?
(Nobody)
What you are describing is hubris and pride. Very common and something that Christians don't have a lot of at all. Religious people do. But Christians do not. Christians are a sub group of Religious.
BECAUSE
"God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. "
This theme is repeated at least a dozen times or more throughout scriptures, and indeed any person caring about God's opinion knows this verse extremely well.
It's not a very obscure passage....any and every Bible student knows this verse. Why do you not? How are you such a poor discerner of God's word that you don't know?
Are you trying to posit some wackanoodle theology system that separates people from God to be YOUR subjects instead of God's? That's a very very scary thing to do. In the hands of an angry God is not a positive life goal.
From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. John 6:66
Did they believe that Jesus is God? Or did they believe Jesus was just a Rabbi?
That's the crux right there.
Do you believe or not?
It's not affinity
It's not "strong like" or admiration.
It's not an agreement of non aggression.
It's belief Jesus is God. And belief that causes positive actions that cost you personally. Verbal or written consent is not intended here....it's much more than that. It's actions that will cost you.
Instead of just making statements....
Let's use the entirety of scriptures to answer the sin/sins questions.
Luke categorizes INDIVIDUAL sins as:
Sins of Ignorance (lost sheep)
Sins of Negligence (lost coin)
Sins of Planning aforethought (Prodigal Son)
Sins of Unforgiveness and Judgementalism (angry brother in Prodigal story️ Shrewd Manager afterwards)
In John,
At the start of the tale of THE MAN BORN BLIND the Apostles asked about Corporate sin vx Individual sin. Israel, as a whole, had been judged by God for Corporate sins and sent into exile. Indeed, the Old Testament is full of tales about God executing judgement on entire empires for their sins.
So we need to add those to the list as well.
Then adding in the sin of "Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" which is also encompasses the sin of unbelief....that is the six categories of sins people commit. Some are combinations, some are more single categorical in nature. But as it appears, mankind is in pretty horrible condition and needs some assistance.
However, God has a plan as told in the Parable of the Sower or as I like to think of as the Parable of the Soils.
These Soils were not the same and the message had different results upon each of the soil types. BUT the important part about the Parable was that the soil type was conditioned or abandoned that way by mankind.
OR
Using your garden as a walking path will not get you any tomatoes to harvest.
So....there's the scriptural explanation of sin.
Peter, when preparing for the Last Supper requested to be cleaned by Jesus head to toe. But Jesus told him he was clean except for his feet. Metaphorically and literally. Peter hadn't done anything wrong that was unforgiven by God at that point except for common dirt collected between his toes.
And my analysis is very wrong in what respect?
Thanks 1think you have the personal relationship from what I just read and hear from within me
Willful ignorance. So, disobedience. Thus unbelief.
Maybe soils 2 & 3 for example. Thus, commands like, 'do not be deceived," "abide/remain," and teachings like endurance...
Then in Christ in Spirit there are the concepts of immaturity vs. maturity, and progressive sanctification for those who abide and endure, etc.
Agree.
What makes you think I'm not aware of it?
Where do you see me positing a theology system?
Agree.
okay, God did not choose all to either believe God or not in risen son for them to not?
Even though not all might not choose God. If God does not choose all, then God is not fair is God?
So either he chose all or God has not chosen all. God is fair and if one is not given the chance, then God is not fair is God?
The play on words, is perplexing
I see God loves us all and Son went to that cross for all 1 John 2:1-2, 12 time to choose free choice between God and you with others along with you or not
I choose God the only one that is good to this day, is what I believe and that cannot be changed (not to me anyways)
God has called all to believe God or not, Risen Son proves that to me. The death was for reconciliation first only (2 Cor 5:16-20). Then the risen for us to get given (free of charge) new life in the risen Christ, I, once believed God, became dead to the first birth of flesh and am alive daily in the risen Son thanks to Father, who leads new in the same Holy Spirit that led Jesus first
Thanks
These are religious people concepts....not Christian concepts.
The scriptures do not discuss these things. Only Hebrews (a letter addressed to the JEWS) discusses these concepts. Are you Jewish? Did you grow up in the Jewish faith?
Because you posted a hypothetical that directly embodies the antithesis of what that verse repeatedly says in scriptures.
Who does that EXCEPT for someone looking for a "loophole" to drive some theology through.
No, not necessarily. Ceremonial Handwashing was a big thing in Jesus's day. Sermons and lectures abounded concerning this subject. They even went so far as to carefully measure the amount of water used to wash their hands to avoid using too much or too little.
Was Jesus willfully ignorant or just willful in not doing this? And some church denominations practice some form of proverbial handwashing. Some "do not touch or do not taste (AKA gambit of moderation to abstinence) " concerning particular substances. (Wine, beer, mouthwash, tobacco and cough syrup)
So....you pick your poison. What is in reality "handwashing" that various people practice but really has no affect upon their relationship with God? Is it a sin to not wash your hands? Is it just to keep the peace you wash your hands?
The list of things we, as humans, add to the Gospel message is long. You seem no different from them to me at the moment.
I so hate these ungodly doctrines that separate Jews from gentiles
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: Ephesians 4:11-15
Incorrect. Instantly I can tell you that Hebrews, Paul and Peter discuss immaturity and the need to grow to maturity. The Faith of Jesus Christ is structured and explained in the terminology of birth > childhood > adulthood. If you'd like to discuss this respectfully, I'm sure I and others can take you through some Scriptures.
It looks like @ChristRoseFromTheDead just started the process.
So....
The both of you wish to bring division?
Is that what you wish?
Basically trolling a happy community?
Why?
Is that your "Claim to fame"? You pinnacle of success?
Oh boy!
You both have severe psychological issues if that is true.
No they don't in the parameters YOU are inventing.
Amazing how people are inventive with creating sin, confusion and division.
You don't like the division of sins?
Fine.
Create your own using a Bible you wrote or rewrote to fit what YOU want. I'm using standard accepted translations and intent.
You did!
When you questioned me with various hypothetical situations and essentially attacking my understanding of scriptures.