Understanding God’s election

[brightfame52]

Your post proves my point. Jesus was God’s elect, his holy servant. When one believes the gospel and is spiritually placed in Christ, they are chosen to now serve the Lord. You put the carpet before the horse.

Jesus was and is Gods elect to service as well as the ones Chosen in Him before the foundation, they also were chosen for service, but its service that follows salvation. Christ was chosen to be their head and saviour, and they were chosen to salvation and service to Him 2 Cor 5:14-15

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Your problem is you trying to make their election to some non salvation capacity, that's error.

 

[John146]

Jesus was and is Gods elect to service as well as the ones Chosen in Him before the foundation, they also were chosen for service, but its service that follows salvation. Christ was chosen to be their head and saviour, and they were chosen to salvation and service to Him 2 Cor 5:14-15

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Your problem is you trying to make their election to some non salvation capacity, that's error.

Review all passages contains the actually word and you too will see that salvation of the soul is nowhere to be found. Nowhere.

 

[GWH]

Your post proves my point. Jesus was God’s elect, his holy servant. When one believes the gospel and is spiritually placed in Christ, they are chosen to now serve the Lord. You put the carpet before the horse.

BF's accusation "Why are you trying to make things Non Spiritual and about salvation ? Thats tampering with Truth" was made without providing quotes so that John could understand the question, so instead he thinks BF's post proves his point--again without providing quotes to indicate why he thinks they agree.

(Now it will be interesting to see whether BF replies employing B/A or E/O thinking :^)

 

[GWH]

Jesus was and is Gods elect to service as well as the ones Chosen in Him before the foundation, they also were chosen for service, but its service that follows salvation. Christ was chosen to be their head and saviour, and they were chosen to salvation and service to Him 2 Cor 5:14-15

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Your problem is you trying to make their election to some non salvation capacity, that's error.

We see that this reply "Your problem is you trying to make their election to some non salvation capacity, that's error." employs E/O thinking without providing quotes, so now we shall see what John says. :^)

 

[GWH]

Review all passages contains the actually word and you too will see that salvation of the soul is nowhere to be found. Nowhere.

John's reply "Review all passages contains the actually word and you too will see that salvation of the soul is nowhere to be found. Nowhere." referred to reviewing without providing any specific quotes to review, and he accused BF of saying "salvation of the soul" is found in the passages when it is not, which seems to employ E/O thinking. Next blow in the bout? :^)

 

[brightfame52]

Review all passages contains the actually word and you too will see that salvation of the soul is nowhere to be found. Nowhere.

Thats because you cant see salvation in the passages I set forth.

 

[brightfame52]

We see that this reply "Your problem is you trying to make their election to some non salvation capacity, that's error." employs E/O thinking without providing quotes, so now we shall see what John says. :^)

What in the world you talking about again ?

 

[rogerg]

Review all passages contains the actually word and you too will see that salvation of the soul is nowhere to be found. Nowhere.

Nor does the need to be. All aspects of the person - physical and spiritual - were covered by the "you" (below), with "you" being all inclusive. Did they become elected of themselves or by what they did? No! Those of the "you", were elected solely by the " foreknowledge of God THROUGH sanctification of the Spirit and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ". Had election required anything else above that, then it would also have had to be included within the verse, given the verse defines the prerequisites and basis of election, however, no other such requirement is found within it. We can know this by the phrase "Elect according to". Were any of those requirements, or any additional requirements to be satisfied by man " (which, on its face would be an absurdity), then as written, the verse would/could not be trusted as true, because "Elect according to" would be wrong.

[1Pe 1:2 KJV]
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

 

[Genez]

I would like to propose that all participants in this thread make a pact (or covenant, if you will) to sheath our swords and put away our knives from henceforth. Let us all forgo the insults, the derogatory name calling, straw men, red herrings, deflections, and all other sundry forms of ad hominem attacks and instead make a concerted effort to season our speech with grace and LIGHT -- IOW replace the amount of noise on this thread with genuine substance by giving straightforward honest answers to each others questions or in a dissenting rebuttal to another's posts. Let us all strive to be civil, polite and compose intelligent, thought-provoking posts.

Besides...this idea also makes for a good New Year resolution .

Sounds good...

Promise to keep using 1 John 1:9, or your idea would be powerless.


.....

 

[John146]

Thats because you cant see salvation in the passages I set forth.

First mention principle and a few others.

Isaiah 42:Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Isaiah 45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Isaiah 65:9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

 

[Genez]

How is anybody going to learn anything here?????????

 

[John146]

Nor does the need to be. All aspects of the person - physical and spiritual - were covered by the "you" (below), with "you" being all inclusive. Did they become elected of themselves or by what they did? No! Those of the "you", were elected solely by the " foreknowledge of God THROUGH sanctification of the Spirit and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ". Had election required anything else above that, then it would also have had to be included within the verse, given the verse defines the prerequisites and basis of election, however, no other such requirement is found within it. We can know this by the phrase "Elect according to". Were any of those requirements, or any additional requirements to be satisfied by man " (which, on its face would be an absurdity), then as written, the verse would/could not be trusted as true, because "Elect according to" would be wrong.

[1Pe 1:2 KJV]
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Stick with Pauls epistles to the body of Christ. When does Good know a man? God knows a man when the man hears and believes the gospel and God places his Spirit upon him.

After that ye are known of God as a son. It is a point in time after believing the gospel.

Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

 

[Cranberry]

Review all passages contains the actually word and you too will see that salvation of the soul is nowhere to be found. Nowhere.

What then is Saved through Salvation?

1Peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, 5 who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 8 Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, 9 obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

 

[Genez]

We wrestle not against flesh and blood.

Satan wants vicious cycle conflicts that can not resolve.
He starts them spinning.
Wipes his hands....

And walks away.

......

 

[rogerg]

Stick with Pauls epistles to the body of Christ. When does Good know a man? God knows a man when the man hears and believes the gospel and God places his Spirit upon him.

After that ye are known of God as a son. It is a point in time after believing the gospel.

Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

First, don't tell me what to stick with.
Second, don't evade my post -reply to the points raised therein, unless, that is, you are unable to reply to them. I noticed you do that often - ignore points that you cannot refute. You demanded an answer to your question, which I answered. Now respond to my post and don't change the subject.

 

[John146]

First, don't tell me what to stick with.
Second, don't evade my post -reply to the points raised therein, unless, that is, you are unable to reply to them. I noticed you do that often - ignore points that you cannot refute. You demanded an answer to your question, which I answered. Now respond to my post and don't change the subject.

I find it difficult to understand your posts. In addition, using passages aimed at Israel to show things pertaining to the body of Christ is not good Bible study, imo.

 

[brightfame52]

First mention principle and a few others.

Isaiah 42:Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Isaiah 45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Isaiah 65:9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

Okay, I have no problem with those scriptures.

 

[Rufus]

And, I asked what?

If someone dies?
His soul leaves his body.

Is that soul freed from the flesh that opposes God?

Your answer?



There is a pattern you follow that drags each exchange sideways and into a ditch.

One more time, please?

If someone dies?
His soul leaves his body.

Is that soul then freed from the flesh that opposes God?

Now here is what you apparently need to know:

Galatians 5:17

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh;
and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

Got it?

The "flesh" = sinful nature. And that nature is inextricably entwined with our body and soul; for sin affected the entire person. It affected us physiologically, psychologically and spiritually. In short, the Fall utterly ruined mankind, which is how and why the prophet could basically say that from the crown of man's head to the bottom of his feet, there is no spiritual/moral soundness (Isa 1:5-6) ! The new birth in this life affects the immaterial part of man -- the spiritual, the soul, the heart, the mind. These aspects are renewed through the process of sanctification. But the body is not renewed! Instead the body dies due to sin, which is precisely why the entire creation awaits and eagerly groans for the redemption of the saints' bodies at the Parousia -- at which time our redemption will be totally consummated (Rom 8:19ff.).

Since the souls of all saints who die in this age are immediately ushered into the presence of God in heaven, and nothing impure can enter into God's presence, then it's not possible for any departed godly soul to be tainted with sin any longer. And there is even more solid evidence for this since scripture teaches that "flesh and blood" cannot enter the Kingdom of God (1Cor 15:50). In other words our earthly bodies could never enter into the presence of God in his holy habitat. God only comes down from heaven to earth to dwell with mankind after the saints receive their new glorified bodies that will be free from all corruption (Rev 21).

And the third line of solid evidence for all this can be seen in Rom 8:10-11, which basically states that our bodies ARE [still currently] DEAD due to sin (which affirms what I wrote above), yet, our spirits are alive due to righteousness. And this fact, doubtlessly accounts for why all saints (save for those alive at the rapture) must suffer physical death. This current body that we're in MUST be destroyed! But in v. 11, the promise is that God, who raised Jesus from the dead, WILL [also in the future] give life to our mortal bodies, which of course will occur when Jesus returns to resurrect the righteous and the wicked and judge the living and the dead.

I hope this answers your question.

 

[Rufus]

Your post proves my point. Jesus was God’s elect, his holy servant. When one believes the gospel and is spiritually placed in Christ, they are chosen to now serve the Lord. You put the carpet before the horse.

How does your post prove your point? Did God choose pigs or cows or horses to serve him? Of course not! He chose specific individuals! Service to God has from the very beginning been the call to mankind.

 

[rogerg]

I find it difficult to understand your posts. In addition, using passages aimed at Israel to show things pertaining to the body of Christ is not good Bible study, imo.

Oh my - you're ducking and trying to obfuscate the intent of 1:2! You can't actually believe it is "aimed at" the nation of Israel (unless you mean spiritual Israel). I realize you are easily confused but try to read these verses closely. 1.2 clearly tells us Peter is addressing the ELECT, not Israel. You should have been able to ascertain that and the intent of 1:2 for yourself simply by reading it closely.

[1Pe 1:1-2 KJV]
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.