Understanding God’s election

[rogerg]

) ever heard of the Millennial reign? You know.....where God re-commissions Israel for their originally intended purpose?
Or are you (heaven forbid) a Reformed amillennialist to go along with all of your other baggage?

There is no Millennial reign

 

[rogerg]

1) ever heard of the Millennial reign? You know.....where God re-commissions Israel for their originally intended purpose?

Let me rephrase my prior reply to you: I do not believe in a Millennial reign the way you perceive it to be.

 

[Genez]

Impressive. Personally, I just read the Bible.



He done is with the earthly Jews of earthly Israel (just as He is done with all of the non-elect), except for those He had chosen individually to be spiritual Jews. God divorced earthly Israel due to their spiritual fornication, and based upon His own laws, He cannot take her back again to be His wife. The elect/saved have become the people of God replacing earthly Israel in that role.
The Jews of His elect, (and as with all others of His elect) will be/must be saved by God, but not because any earthly affiliation.

[1Pe 2:10 KJV]
10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

[Jer 3:8 KJV]
8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

[Deu 24:1-4 KJV]
1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give [it] in her hand, and send her out of his house.
2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's [wife].
3 And [if] the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth [it] in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her [to be] his wife;
4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that [is] abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee [for] an inheritance.



Afraid not. God is done with Jews of earthly Israel - those who are not of His elect. Many might become saved but not because they are Jews, because they are elect.

First, spiritual "Church" is comprised of all of the saved: Jew and Gentile alike, not just the gentiles.
Second, in the verses below, follow the phrase "new song" - it is the key to understanding who is being represented. Observe that none but the hundred forty-four thousand (those of Rev 7:4-9), could learn, or sing it (it is symbolic of the gospel) - they are representative of all redeemed unto God by Christ - not just Jews - but "out of EVERY KINDRED, AND TONGUE, AND PEOPLE, AND NATION".
Anyway, only the hundred forty-and four thousand alone could lean the new song (Rev 14:3) - they, being depicted as tribes (above) I believe to demonstrate that they have become God's Israel - spiritual Israel. I realize this is kind of confusing, but I will
be happy to try to clarify any questions you may have.

[Rev 5:9,10 KJV]
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

[Rev 7:4,9 KJV]
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

[Rev 14:3 KJV] 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Notice that the "servants of our God" (Rev 7:3) of the hundred forty-four thousand of all of the tribes, are the elect - now the people of God 1 Pe 2:10

[Rev 7:3 KJV]
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

[1Pe 2:10 KJV]
10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Bonus verses:

[1Pe 2:16 KJV]
16 As free, and not using [your] liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

[Psa 40:3-4 KJV]
3 And he hath put a new song in my mouth, [even] praise unto our God: many shall see [it], and fear, and shall trust in the LORD.
4 Blessed [is] that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.

[Psa 96:1 KJV]
1 O sing unto the LORD a new song: sing unto the LORD, all the earth.

[Psa 149:1 KJV]
1 Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, [and] his praise in the congregation of saints.

[Isa 42:10 KJV]
10 Sing unto the LORD a new song, [and] his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof.

Good bye!

 

[Genez]

There is no Millennial reign

Why argue with your thinking?

Bye bye!

 

[rogerg]

Why argue with your thinking?

Bye bye!

[Amo 8:2 KJV] 2 And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.

bye

 

[cv5]

Let me rephrase my prior reply to you: I do not believe in a Millennial reign the way you perceive it to be.

Of course you don't. Same goes with the gospel message.

 

[Genez]

[Amo 8:2 KJV] 2 And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.

bye

Now in English....

Amos 8:1-2


This is what the Sovereign Lord showed me: a basket of ripe fruit.
“What do you see, Amos?” he asked.

“A basket of ripe fruit,” I answered.

Then the Lord said to me, “The time is ripe for my people Israel;
I will spare them no longer.​

They were punished! God stopped holding back his discipline.
He had been passing by their punishment.
Up to then He had been passing them by.

 

[cv5]

Now in English....

Amos 8:1-2


This is what the Sovereign Lord showed me: a basket of ripe fruit.
“What do you see, Amos?” he asked.

“A basket of ripe fruit,” I answered.

Then the Lord said to me, “The time is ripe for my people Israel;
I will spare them no longer.​

They were punished! God stopped holding back his discipline.
He had been passing by their punishment.
Up to then He had been passing them by.

Yes of course. God gave Israel a "pass". Uncountably many in fact.

Until He didn't.

 

[rogerg]

Now in English....

Amos 8:1-2


This is what the Sovereign Lord showed me: a basket of ripe fruit.
“What do you see, Amos?” he asked.

“A basket of ripe fruit,” I answered.

Then the Lord said to me, “The time is ripe for my people Israel;
I will spare them no longer.​

They were punished! God stopped holding back his discipline.
He had been passing by their punishment.
Up to then He had been passing them by.

The punishment of the nation of Israel, besides being subjected to His wrath, was that they would no longer be "His people"
as is substantiated by Hos 1:2,9,10, Rom 9:23-26, 1Jo 3:1-2:

[Hos 1:2,9-10 KJV]
2 The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, [departing] from the LORD.
9 Then said [God], Call his name Loammi: for ye [are] not my people, and I will not be your [God].
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people, [there] it shall be said unto them, [Ye are] the sons of the living God.

[Rom 9:23-26 KJV]
[23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

[1Jo 3:1-2 KJV]
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[rogerg]

Of course you don't. Same goes with the gospel message.

Here, look, it's easy to see, I think (but kind of tired right now so I may not have gotten the logic entirely straight).

If, as I understand the millennium reign correctly, for those saved, at the very beginning of it, they (supposedly) will be raised; however, it would then be impossible for there to be a thousand-year period after that raising, because the raising will occur on the last day. With it happening on the last day, there obviously cannot be more days to follow it in order to accommodate another a thousand years.


[Jhn 6:44 KJV] 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

[Jhn 12:48 KJV] 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

This is also substantiated by 1co 15:52, where we are told the dead shall be raised at the last trump. The last trump is sounded
on the last day I believe. The last trump is the seventh (last) trumpet and is sounded by the seventh angel.

[1Co 15:52 KJV] 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

[Rev 10:6-7 KJV]
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

[GWH]

I do worship the only Creator God. The one you describe is not in Scripture.

To deny that the Creator is all-loving and all-just per Scripture such as those I cited is blasphemous!

 

[brightfame52]

Why such a non- response?
It was simple question...

The fact (you claimed) he died for only the elect?
Leaves us with what?
That? All the non-elect sins were not atoned for.

So???

Do you believe that all unbelievers will be condemned to Hell based upon there being no atonement for their sins?

It's a simple question.
Where is your courage of conviction?
You should be able to answer that if what you claimed, you truly believe, and know is truth.

Something's wrong, eh?
Maybe, you do not others to see the answer, perhaps?

Be truthful.... answer please.

So here is a simple answer,

Why answer someone who is confused ? And yes Jesus did only die for the elect, and to say or imply otherwise is a false gospel

 

[brightfame52]

Can I answer for you?
Yes. They will be condemned on the basis of their sins not being atoned for, because God knew it would be a waste of time.

Is that correct?

Already responded

 

[Cranberry]

To deny that the Creator is all-loving and all-just per Scripture such as those I cited is blasphemous!

No. It is educated in His word. Denying what God reports of Himself and His history is dishonest.

 

[cv5]

The punishment of the nation of Israel, besides being subjected to His wrath, was that they would no longer be "His people"
as is substantiated by Hos 1:2,9,10, Rom 9:23-26, 1Jo 3:1-2:

[Hos 1:2,9-10 KJV]
2 The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, [departing] from the LORD.
9 Then said [God], Call his name Loammi: for ye [are] not my people, and I will not be your [God].
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people, [there] it shall be said unto them, [Ye are] the sons of the living God.

[Rom 9:23-26 KJV]
[23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

[1Jo 3:1-2 KJV]
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Despising the "older brother" Israel are we?
Hardness of heart is a result of the false docrines of Calvinite-ism.

We should LOVE our older brother (as Jesus/Joseph does), knowing the gravity of such a sin.
Yes, we all know that you and your crew have NO IDEA of what these passages portray.
Which is why you are a tormented Calvinite and amil.

[Gen 42:8 NKJV]
So Joseph recognized his brothers, but they did not recognize him.

[Gen 42:23 NKJV]
But they did not know that Joseph understood [them], for he spoke to them through an interpreter.

[Gen 42:24 NKJV]
And he turned himself away from them and wept. Then he returned to them again, and talked with them. And he took Simeon from them and bound him before their eyes.

[Gen 45:1 KJV]
Then Joseph could not refrain himself before all them that stood by him; and he cried, Cause every man to go out from me. And there stood no man with him, while Joseph made himself known unto his brethren.

[Gen 50:17 KJV]
So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin; for they did unto thee evil: and now, we pray thee, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father. And Joseph wept when they spake unto him.

[Gen 50:18 KJV]
And his brethren also went and fell down before his face; and they said, Behold, we [be] thy servants.

[Gen 50:19 KJV]
And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for [am] I in the place of God?

[Gen 50:20 KJV]
But as for you, ye thought evil against me; [but] God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as [it is] this day, to save much people alive.

[Gen 50:21 KJV]
Now therefore fear ye not: I will nourish you, and your little ones. And he comforted them, and spake kindly unto them.

 

[GWH]

No. It is educated in His word. Denying what God reports of Himself and His history is dishonest.

Since denying what God reports of Himself (all-lovingness) in MT 4:44-48, JN 3:16, RM 5:5-8, EPH 3:17-19, 1TM 2:3-4, & 1JN 4:7-19 is dishonest, why do you do it?!

 

[cv5]

The punishment of the nation of Israel, besides being subjected to His wrath, was that they would no longer be "His people"
as is substantiated by Hos 1:2,9,10, Rom 9:23-26, 1Jo 3:1-2:

[Hos 1:2,9-10 KJV]
2 The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, [departing] from the LORD.
9 Then said [God], Call his name Loammi: for ye [are] not my people, and I will not be your [God].
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people, [there] it shall be said unto them, [Ye are] the sons of the living God.

[Rom 9:23-26 KJV]
[23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

[1Jo 3:1-2 KJV]
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

[Gen 45:2 NKJV]
And he wept aloud, and the Egyptians and the house of Pharaoh heard [it].

[Gen 45:4 NKJV]
And Joseph said to his brothers, "Please come near to me." So they came near. Then he said: "I [am] Joseph your brother, whom you sold into Egypt.

[Gen 45:5 NKJV]
"But now, do not therefore be grieved or angry with yourselves because you sold me here; for God sent me before you to preserve life.

[Gen 45:8 NKJV]
"So now [it was] not you [who] sent me here, but God; and He has made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house, and a ruler throughout all the land of Egypt.

[Gen 45:14 NKJV]
Then he fell on his brother Benjamin's neck and wept, and Benjamin wept on his neck.

[Gen 45:15 NKJV]
Moreover he kissed all his brothers and wept over them, and after that his brothers talked with him.

 

[rogerg]

Yes, we all know that you and your crew have NO IDEA of what these passages portray.

Correct, I do not.

 

[Rufus]

There is no Millennial reign

Hmmm...technically, that isn't true. We're in the "millennial" reign. The spiritual, invisible kingdom was inaugurated at Pentecost and will be consummated at the Parousia at which time it will become the eternal, visible kingdom. Christ is already reigning in his kingdom from heaven and we are reigning with Him. I'm sure you're aware that numbers in scripture are often used figuratively in scripture, and this is especially true of the number "1,000" which simply denotes a long, indefinite period of time.

P.S. Have a Joyous and Blessed Christmas, brother.

 

[Rufus]

Since denying what God reports of Himself (all-lovingness) in MT 4:44-48, JN 3:16, RM 5:5-8, EPH 3:17-19, 1TM 2:3-4, & 1JN 4:7-19 is dishonest, why do you do it?!

But God is MORE than love! You guys should take Solomon's advice and avoid EXTREMES (Eccl 7:18). And a doctrine becomes extreme when it is consistently advanced, taught and preached on at the expense of other important doctrines.