Question about the Trinity

Crazyjmill · Monday at 5:22 AM

From what I understand God, Jesus, and the Holy spirit are one and the same. My own personal take on it is Jesus is the right hand of God and perhaps the Holy Spirit His left hand. To me asking if Jesus is God is like asking is God his right hand or his left? Is God his head or His toes. The question doesn't make sense because God is all His parts, He is one. Perhaps Jesus was the finite image of God we needed to comprehend His infinity. Do you think I am in any way right in this thinking?

ChristRoseFromTheDead · Monday at 10:07 AM

The father is the invisible essence of God. The word is his visible form to creation, The spirit is his energy through which all things are created and sustained

ChristRoseFromTheDead · Monday at 10:36 AM

The Father is the intelligence that designs and sources every aspect of creation, which he articulates through his Word, which brings them into existence with his Spirit.

homwardbound · Monday at 10:49 AM

Crazyjmill said:

This is what I see, Jesus is the way, the truth and the only way to Father that Jesus is made one with Father, as the right hand. We the people enter the body of Father, by Jesus's done work for us the people. As Father sees to unite us in with them as Won (One) for us to be in a part of the body, that
Paul talks of in 1 Cor 14
Yes that be about Tongues a weaker gift for telling others about this done work of Son for us to be in and a part of the Body of God. God is not a confuser
You ask God what part, a little toe, a big toe and ear a tongue that speaks so this that hear you hear you, not unknowingly, if not there need to be an interpreter,
There is so much to belief that decides to not quit, even if whenever in adversities, incongruities, troubles, body parts lost.
Ask Father in risen Son for you to be One with them too.
God is One, we are made new and One with Father and Son who Won on that cross once for everyone Hebrews 10:10 John 3:16 is a fact Jack. Stand in belief and be one with Father and Son also,
The made one, is like Water, Ice and Steam, three forms all are water
Or look at an egg, it takes three parts to be a whole egg. White, yoke and shell

Jesus is shell, the body, which we become a part of in belief that will not quit, we do not quit, and it is not of works I at least continue in. It is Now God Father's done work of Son I continue in daily trusting and learning in all mistakes made as from God by Son one remains forgiven by God, not by man, this has been my experience in my own flesh unredeemed nature that I reckon dead daily now (Romans 6)
White = Holy Spirit that leads through us in our unredeemed bodies for now until Corruption get swallowed up in incorruption (1 Cor 15)

Yoke = Father God himself/herself the Almighty Jesus spoke of while here on earth to save us, that was not seen until risen back from the dead, as he explained this to the disciples in Acts 1 through 2 before Pentecost took place, where Father came down and spoke through the disciple to the crowd there then, and told them about Son, whom over 3,000 believed that day, and yes evidence of it happened before any rituals took place for it to happen, even later on in Acts 9-10 I think around there when Peter went to the Gentile House of Cornelius and they without any rituals got saved by God speaking again through Peter
Man has intervened on God's miraculous gift and taken people captive using the Gospel for self gain. Many people meaning well and yet are trapped in sin by man trying to do what no other can do, what is done by Son for them is done for them to be new in Father's Spirit and Truth alone thank you me trusting God reveals this to you
Born again new in God Father's Spirit and Truth John 3
John 19:30 what needed to get done for su to n=be made new as a gift got done by Son first, so you can enter too free of charge and no hassle
Thanking Father and Son as Won for you
Psalm 100:4, 103:12, Ezekiel 36:26 no flesh will get saved none, not since Adam the first, Adam the second saves us a Life-giving Spirit

Pilgrimshope · Monday at 12:10 PM

Crazyjmill said:

I’d say that’s a good way of looking at the trinity

“O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: Because his mercy endureth for ever. The right hand of the LORD is exalted: The right hand of the LORD doeth valiantly. I shall not die, but live, And declare the works of the LORD. The LORD hath chastened me sore: But he hath not given me over unto death.

Open to me the gates of righteousness: I will go into them, and I will praise the LORD: This gate of the LORD, Into which the righteous shall enter.

I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, And art become my salvation. The stone which the builders refused Is become the head stone of the corner. This is the LORD's doing; It is marvellous in our eyes.

This is the day which the LORD hath made; We will rejoice and be glad in it. Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: We have blessed you out of the house of the LORD. God is the LORD, which hath shewed us light: Bind the sacrifice with cords, even unto the horns of the altar.

Thou art my God, and I will praise thee: Thou art my God, I will exalt thee. O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: For his mercy endureth for ever.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭118:1, 16-24, 26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

A man’s right arm is how he does his work his mind and spirit decide and determine and his arm moves n accordance

“Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.

How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭52:6-7, 10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

wattie · Monday at 12:44 PM

I don't like when people seperate the Father, Son and Holy Spirit like they are different beings.

That seems like 'God' becomes something in brackets rather than the one triune being, God.

The Father is not the Son..like the mind is not the body...but they are not separate.

Crazyjmill · Monday at 1:12 PM

wattie said:

I was wondering something similar if making separate parts of God is an arbitrary division we put on God in trying to understand His magnificence a bite at a time. It just seems like a lot of religions and denominations within a religion have different thoughts on who Jesus was though they seem to have similar thoughts on the existence of one creator God. It seems the hang up is with Jesus equating himself with God and I cannot figure out why others would think an all powerful God would be forbidden to exist as a person on earth if He so chose to do so. Maybe it just blows their mind away at such a possibility.

GWH · Monday at 1:16 PM

Crazyjmill said:

The three are one but not the same. The OT Shema (DT 6:4) teaches that God is one, and the NT also affirms that there is one God (EPH 4:6, 1TM 2:5). However, the NT teaches that God relates to believers in three ways simultaneously: as the Father, as the Son and as the Holy Spirit (1 x 1 x 1=1).

The Father/Parenthood of God is indicated in Jesus’ model prayer (MT 6:9), throughout the Gospel of John (3:35, 5:17-18, etc.), and in the epistles of Paul (RM 4:11, 8:15, PHP 2:11). God the Father and Christ’s Sonship are discussed in Hebrews 1:1-4. The Son of God also is mentioned by John (JN 1:14, 3:16, etc.) and by Paul (RM 1:4, GL 2:20, 1THS 1:10). The Holy Spirit is mentioned in three successive chapters in John (JN 14:26, 15:26, 16:13), frequently in the book of Acts (ACTS 1:5, 2:4, 9:17, 13:2, 19:2), and in many of Paul’s letters (RM 8:4-26, 1CR 6:19, EPH 4:30) as well as in some of the other epistles (2PT 1:21, JUDE 20).

These divine aspects or “persons” may be distinguished by role: God the Father as creator or initiator (GN 1:1), God the Son as Messiah or mediator (1TM 2:5), and God the Spirit as indweller (RM 5:5). For example, 1 John 4:7 says love comes from (is initiated by) God (the Father), Galatians 5:22 says that love is a fruit of the (indwelling) Spirit, and Ephesians 3:18 speaks of the (mediating) love of Christ (RM 5:8, EPH 2:18).

We can denote these distinctions by the use of three prepositions: God the Father is over all creation (EPH 4:6), God the Son is Immanuel or with humanity (MT 1:23), and the Holy Spirit is within all believers (EPH 1:13). A single passage that comes closest to indicating this distinction is Ephesians 3:14-19, in which Paul prays to the Father that through His Spirit of love Christ would dwell in believers’ hearts (also see 1CR 8:6).

When the Bible uses masculine words for God, it should be understood that only God the Son is human and had a sexual orientation while on earth. GN 1:26-27 states that both male and female were created in God’s image, referring not to androgyny but to personality, and Jesus said (in MT 22:30 & 19:11-12) that there is no marriage and thus no need for sexuality in heaven.

Actually, since the creation also manifests God (RM 1:20, cf. JN 1:1-3 & PS 33:6), in a sense God may be viewed as a “Quadity”. As Paul told the Athenians (ACTS 17:28), “In Him we live and move and have our being.” God as Creation is throughout physical reality (called “panentheism”). However, since this mode of revelation is impersonal, it has rightly been de-emphasized by most Christian denominations.

Pilgrimshope · Monday at 1:17 PM

wattie said:

Yes like a man’s mind isn’t seperate from his arm they are one but the mind thinks and decides and the arm acts accordingly . One man two functions accomplished by him in two forms.

SonJudgment · Monday at 1:30 PM

The problem with your analogy and wording is that it seems to stray into the heresy of partialism which is basically saying that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are just parts that make up one God or to put it another way it's like saying each person of God is only 1/3rd that makes up one God. That is not trying to knock you, but that is basically what the heresy of partialism is, and it is kind of a common error that some make when trying to make analogies to the trinity doctrine, the other common heresy that might crop up when attempting to make analogies is modalism. This might be more of a problem with analogies than it is a case of seriously believing in the heresies.

The best and most biblically accurate explanation of the trinity doctrine is found in the Athanasian Creed which I will post below and bold for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed

Athanasian Creed

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father infinite; the Son infinite; and the Holy Ghost infinite. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.

Pilgrimshope · Monday at 1:34 PM

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

“hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, ( this is who the son is ) and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. …All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

…He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

…And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1, 3, 10, 14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness……
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made “

“ by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: and he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭

“who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Who is the image ( visible manifestation ) of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: and he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:13-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‭KJV‬‬

GWH · Monday at 1:44 PM

SonJudgment said:

The problem with your analogy and wording is that it seems to stray into the heresy of partialism which is basically saying that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are just parts that make up one God or to put it another way it's like saying each person of God is only 1/3rd that makes up one God. That is not trying to knock you, but that is basically what the heresy of partialism is, and it is kind of a common error that some make when trying to make analogies to the trinity doctrine, the other common heresy that might crop up when attempting to make analogies is modalism. This might be more of a problem with analogies than it is a case of seriously believing in the heresies.

The best and most biblically accurate explanation of the trinity doctrine is found in the Athanasian Creed which I will post below and bold for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed

Athanasian Creed

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father infinite; the Son infinite; and the Holy Ghost infinite. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.

That is too wordy or repetitious, although I agree with it if I understand it.

Pilgrimshope · Monday at 1:45 PM

Crazyjmill said:

people a lot of times are just going in what they read in a book not scripture or what someone has told them is in the Bible. Verses like this can really make what happened understandable and undeniable

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there were things God needed to do tbat he needed to do as a man as one of us and still serves as high priest even now

God becoming flesh and bone was always part of his plan it only was manifest in latter times when the time was right and it became necassary that man have an intercessor for thier sins

God became the one man worthy of interceeding for our sins because there was no man to intercede left on earth so he became the man and interceded giving us hope of salvation

“Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: but your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness. We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noon day as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men. We roar all like bears, and mourn sore like doves: we look for judgment, but there is none; for salvation, but it is far off from us. And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.

Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor:

therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59:1-2, 9-11, 14-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your probably aware but Jesus biblically is many times referred to as Gods right arm

SonJudgment · Monday at 1:54 PM

GWH said:

Yea that's why people like to make analogies in order to be more simplistic and brief, but then all analogies end up failing and rather describing a heresy. Thus is the cycle.

This seeming paradox is lampooned in a great little cartoon that technically is longer than it takes me to read the Athanasian Creed but nevertheless pretty well describes the phenomenon:

Cameron143 · Monday at 1:57 PM

There is nothing created that is analogous to the Godhead. God is One. God is 3 in One. We don't have to understand it. Simply believe it by faith.

None of us were there at creation. Hebrews 11:3...Through faith we understand that the world's were framed by the Word of God...

Likewise, through faith we understand that God is both One and 3.

SonJudgment · Monday at 2:00 PM

Cameron143 said:

You're partly right, but the trinity doctrine is not incomprehensible and it can be understood, it's not that hard to actually understand it. Though yes you are correct that there is no analogy that can encompass the trinity doctrine. The best way to understand the trinity doctrine is either to read the Athanasian Creed or to read the whole entire Bible.

GWH · Monday at 2:12 PM

SonJudgment said:

The Athanasian Creed is not Scripture either, and it omits God as revealed by creation.

SonJudgment · Monday at 2:23 PM

GWH said:

The Athanasian Creed is a correct summary of scripture and the essential points of the entirety of the Bible I can confirm and certify. It perfectly describes the Christian religion and what makes Christianity distinct and separate as a religion from all heresies and pagan religions. Denial of the Athanasian Creed is tantamount to denial of the Bible as well as denial of the God of the Bible and denial of the religion of Christianity as a whole. Well does the Creed state in the opening and the closing that denial of any point of the faith will result in eternal damnation.

Cameron143 · Monday at 2:35 PM

SonJudgment said:

That's only if you believe the creeds encompass all there is to the Trinity. The creeds are fine in that they lend and foster understanding, but to suggest that they or any other source brings absolute clarity is a leap too far for me.

SonJudgment · Monday at 2:41 PM

Cameron143 said:

The Athanasian Creed is the most thorough of the essential statements of faith regarding the trinity doctrine and in summarizing The Bible taken together as a whole on the subject of the trinity doctrine. It is masterfully written in such a way that one can identify every single heresy and the pernicion of all cults that have separated themselves from the holy faith of Christianity.

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