Some thought about "Jews"

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Nov 14, 2024
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The information in your post is why I have always put the term "Jew" in quotations. There are so many definitions and refinements of God's chosen people that any one single term does not work. Hebrews doesn't work, nor does Israelite.
It really would be best to allow the Bible to define such terms as Hebrew, Israelite, and Jew for us before attempting to have a discussion about any of them.

According to scripture, someone can be a Hebrew without being either an Israelite or a Jew, and Abram/Abraham is a classic example of this truth.

Gen 14:13
And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these were confederate with Abram.

The word which was translated into English here as Hebrew is ʿiḇrî, and this is a patronymic (which means derived from a paternal ancestor) word which directly relates to the word ʿēḇer.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h5680/kjv/wlc/0-1/

In other words, seeing how Abram/Abraham was a natural descendant of Eber (Gen. 11:16-26), he was called a Hebrew. Although Abram/Abraham was a Hebrew, he was neither an Israelite nor a Jew. In fact, he could not possibly have been either because neither classification of people existed until after Abram/Abraham was dead. We know that Abram/Abraham died when he was 175 years old.

Gen 25:7
And these are the days of the years of Abraham's life which he lived, an hundred threescore and fifteen years.
Gen 25:8
Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people.

We also know that Isaac was born when Abram/Abraham was 100 years old.

Gen 21:5
And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him.

This, of course, means that Abram/Abraham only had 75 years remaining in his life when Isaac was born. We know that Isaac was 60 years old when Jacob was born.

Gen 25:24
And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb.
Gen 25:25
And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.
Gen 25:26
And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.

Of course, this means that Abram/Abraham was not only 160 years old when Jacob was born, but that he also only had 15 years remaining in his life when Jacob was born. Although the Bible does not tell us how old Jacob was when he fled to live with Laban, we do know that he served Laban for twenty years.

Gen 31:38
This twenty years have I been with thee; thy ewes and thy she goats have not cast their young, and the rams of thy flock have I not eaten.
Gen 31:39
That which was torn of beasts I brought not unto thee; I bare the loss of it; of my hand didst thou require it, whether stolen by day, or stolen by night.
Gen 31:40
Thus I was; in the day the drought consumed me, and the frost by night; and my sleep departed from mine eyes.
Gen 31:41
Thus have I been twenty years in thy house; I served thee fourteen years for thy two daughters, and six years for thy cattle: and thou hast changed my wages ten times.

We also know that God did not change Jacob's name to Israel until after these twenty years of service to Laban had been completed.

Gen 32:27
And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
Gen 32:28
And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

Furthermore, we know that Jacob/Israel went on to have twelve sons, and his twelve sons became known as the twelve tribes of Israel.

Gen 49:28
All these are the twelve tribes of Israel: and this is it that their father spake unto them, and blessed them; every one according to his blessing he blessed them.

Seeing how Abram/Abraham only lived to be 175 years old, and seeing how he was 160 years old with only 15 years remaining in his life when Jacob was born to Isaac, and seeing how Jacob served Laban for twenty years before God changed his name to Israel and before his twelve sons became known as the twelve tribes of Israel, we can know, of a certainty, that Abram/Abraham was not an Israelite because there was no such thing as an Israelite upon the face of this earth until after Abram/Abraham was dead.

Furthermore, seeing how the word Jew is directly derived from Judah, who was Jacob's/Israel's fourth son (Gen. 35:23), we can also know, of a certainty, that Abram/Abraham was not a Jew either because none existed during his lifetime. With these truths in mind, according to scripture, someone can be a Hebrew without being either an Israelite or a Jew.

Also, someone can be an Israelite, or a descendant from Jacob/Israel, without being a Jew. In other words, originally, only Judah and his descendants were known to be Jews, but as DavyP has properly explained already, when the kingdom in Israel was split after Solomon's reign, the 10 northern tribes became known as Israel, with Samaria as its capital, and the two southern tribes, Judah and Benjamin, became known as Judah, with Jerusalem as its capital. Furthermore, as DavyP also rightly explained, the Levites who served in the temple in the southern kingdom of Judah were also called Jews. Nowadays, people normally use the term Jew to describe any of Jacob's/Israel's descendants, but, technically speaking, this is not true.

I ran out of space, so please keep reading in my next post.
 
Nov 14, 2024
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To further make proper biblical distinctions, as others here have already properly pointed out, someone can be either an Israelite or a Jew in relation to their natural descendancy, but not truly an Israelite or a Jew in God's eyes.

Rom 9:6
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Rom 2:28
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

In other words, just because someone is a natural descendant from Abram/Abraham, this does not automatically qualify them as being part of Abraham's seed.

Gal 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 3:26
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

According to scripture, Abraham's seed is Christ, and those who have truly been baptized into Christ. Natural descendancy alone means absolutely nothing. Furthermore, just because someone is a natural born Israelite, this does not automatically qualify them as being a part of what Paul called the Israel of God.

Gal 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Gal 6:16
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

According to scripture, it is only those who walk according to this rule, or only those who have become new creatures in Christ, who are considered to be the Israel of God. I fully believe that it can be rightly said that because Jesus Christ is the Lion of the tribe of Judah (Rev. 5:5), he is the consummate Jew. With such being the case, any natural born Jew who does not believe in him is not counted as being a true Jew in God's sight. Again, as we already read, he is not a Jew which is one outwardly, but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, or he is a Jew who has truly been born again through saving faith in Jesus Christ.

Is it possible for somebody to be a Hebrew, a natural descendant of Abraham, someone who is truly Abraham's seed through faith in Christ, a natural born Israelite, someone who is truly a part of the Israel of God, a natural born Jew, a true Jew inwardly, and a Christian all at the same time?

Yes, it is, and the Apostle Paul is a clear-cut example of the same.

Anyhow, I hope that this helps to clear up any possible confusion in relation to how these terms are used in scripture.
 
Nov 14, 2024
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Psssst.

The father of all them that believe or our father Abraham, with the all them that believe and the our pertaining to both believing Israelites/Jews and Gentiles, was an uncircumcised Gentile when righteousness was imputed to him through faith in his coming seed, Jesus Christ (Gal. 3:16).

Rom 4:9
Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Rom 4:10
How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Rom 4:11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:12
And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Pointing out this simple, basic biblical truth to many, many professing Christians, in many different places in the past, has caused them to foam at the mouth with rage. People really need to read their Bibles.
 

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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According to scripture, Abraham's seed is Christ, and those who have truly been baptized into Christ. Natural descendancy alone means absolutely nothing. Furthermore, just because someone is a natural born Israelite, this does not automatically qualify them as being a part of what Paul called the Israel of God.
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GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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And another thing...

Let's say God needs a people: those who are not only received by Him but those who receive what God has done and IS doing.

Is there any record of that specifically in the scripture?

Sure.

1 Peter is written to "To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia..." Primarily, these would have been gentiles, not Jews by birth.

Peter writes this to the gentile believers:

"To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia..."

and then...

"But you (the gentile believers) are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy."

People might argue: well, God made the Jews a holy nation at Sinai and then they'll quote this verse:

God telling Moses to tell the people:

"Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. 6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’"

But ask, is that what the Jews became through the law and the commandments? Did they become a "holy nation"?

There's more to this, I'll just leave it here for now.
Okay, I will chime in at this point with statements by Jesus regarding the status of Jews in God's POS:


MT 7:21: Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

MT 8:11: I say to you that many will come from the east and the west and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

MT 10:32: Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven, but whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

MT 11:6&13-14: Blessed is the man who does not fall away on account of me… For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John, and if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.

MT 13:14-15: This people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and I would heal them.

MT 21:43: I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

MT 23:37: O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you! How often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.

MT 28:18-19a: All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations…

JN 6:40: My Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

JN 8:42, 44&56: If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own, but he sent me… You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him… Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.

JN 10:16: I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

JN 12:48a & 49b: There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words… for the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.

JN 16:1-2: All this I have told you so that you will not go astray. They will put you out of the synagogue. In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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I hope to address a difficult topic, one that has been mentioned several times on CC. The statement has been made that all Jews are going to burn in hell because they reject Jesus Christ. I have a few thoughts on that topic.

First, being a “Jew” is not monolithic. Just like Christianity there are multiple statements of faith within that group, some biblical and some not. The Natsarim, “Jews” who keep the Torah while accepting Messiah Yeshua, was the very first expression of Christianity. They still exist today. Indeed, Messianic Judaism is alive and well and appears to be a growing movement in Israel, as predicted.

Then, there is the issue of natural law. Biblically, a person who has never heard the word (Jesus) but has the Torah written on his heart and obeys, is redeemed. The “Jews” as a people have pursued the truths of YHWH longer and with more diligence than any other people. The Word is deeply etched in their hearts. Are they really denied salvation?

Next, since the modern church has denied the First Testament, the impression exists that Jesus suddenly appears and quickly changes everything. From this view, it looks like He was inactive in history until the nativity. Even a cursory reading of scripture disproves this assumption. Yeshua, the one appearing as the Son of Man, the Angel of The Lord (YHWH), was continually involved with God’s people throughout history, teaching, encouraging, protecting, growing, and sometimes even punishing his people. To think Jesus suddenly changes direction and now forever curses his people is unimaginable.

I also do not accept the assumption that “Jews” deny Yeshua HaMashiach. His teachings have influenced many “Jewish” thoughts. What many “Jews” do struggle with is the concept that The Messiah appears twice in human history. Indeed, they look forward eagerly to his promised coming. Missing His first coming may be an error on their part, but it is not a rejection of YHWH or Yeshua or their teachings.

There is also an issue about who provides salvation to whom. We know God’s chosen people, the Seed of Abraham, brings salvation to the gentiles. There is also the opposite reaction, salvation of the “Jews” comes in the fullness of the gentiles. An eagerly anticipated future event. Even the Second Testament Disciple; the Patron Saint of the western Christian Church; Paul, makes this perfectly clear:

“Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!
Romans 11:11-12
On the one hand the purpose of God for the Jews of providing Messiah/Christ for all humanity has been accomplished, so their current importance in God's POS should fade as the role of Christians or the church of Christ increases per the Great Commission, but on the other hand Zionism and wealthy Jews are still having a significant impact on the world that may increase as we approach the end of history.