Understanding God’s election

[Rufus]

Is that soteriology, no.

Isn't "redemption" language of soteriology? Did God redeem both the Hebrews and the Egyptians when He "came down" to "rescue" his firstborn?

 

[HeIsHere]

Calvinism asserts that one cannot believe positively and respond positively until he first receives the Spirit’s operation; after that experience, he then believes.

 

[Cameron143]

1 Corinthians 2:10-12
For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God.

I appreciate you taking the time to answer, but I'm not asking because I don't know the answers. I'm asking to provoke thought or understand a position someone holds better.

 

[Cameron143]

1 Corinthians 2:10-12
For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God.

I appreciate you taking the time to answer, but I'm not asking because I don't know the answers. I'm asking to provoke thought or understand a position someone holds better.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Right. But what changes so I do believe pigs fly?

Lol once you hear the theory brother it’s up to you , you tell me do you believe I see actual pigs actually flying around my yard at noon every day ?

 

[HeIsHere]

The notion that the Spirit must operate upon a person in a supernatural fashion, before he can believe, has neither the support of these texts, nor biblical instruction elsewhere.

The Spirit of God operates through the power of the gospel to bring one to faith in Christ (Rom. 1:16).

This is sufficient for one who will give it an honest hearing.
(Wayne Jackson)

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes, very different than saying they cannot or are unable to believe it and respond positively to the message..... and it is not because of their fallen human nature, if one reads the whole chapter Paul is calling for unity he is not talking about the process of salvation.

right the fallen natire is why we all need to accept the gospel so we can be restored to Gods children

 

[Cameron143]

Spoken by someone who still has refused to give their definition of free will. :^)

I did give it. You didn't accept it.

 

[HeIsHere]

The notion that the Spirit must operate upon a person in a supernatural fashion, before he can believe, has neither the support of these texts, nor biblical instruction elsewhere.

The Spirit of God operates through the power of the gospel to bring one to faith in Christ (Rom. 1:16).

This is sufficient for one who will give it an honest hearing.
(Wayne Jackson)

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes, very different than saying they cannot or are unable to believe it and respond positively to the message..... and it is not because of their fallen human nature, if one reads the whole chapter Paul is calling for unity he is not talking about the process of salvation.

right the fallen natire is why we all need to accept the gospel so we can be restored to Gods children we aren’t restored secretly and then we believe I agree

 

[HeIsHere]

The notion that the Spirit must operate upon a person in a supernatural fashion, before he can believe, has neither the support of these texts, nor biblical instruction elsewhere.

The Spirit of God operates through the power of the gospel to bring one to faith in Christ (Rom. 1:16).

This is sufficient for one who will give it an honest hearing.
(Wayne Jackson)

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes, very different than saying they cannot or are unable to believe it and respond positively to the message..... and it is not because of their fallen human nature, if one reads the whole chapter Paul is calling for unity he is not talking about the process of salvation.

right the fallen natire is why we all need to accept the gospel so we can be saved from it and restored to Gods children . we aren’t restored secretly and then we believe I agree

 

[Cameron143]

Spoken by someone who still has refused to give their definition of free will. :^)

I did give it. You didn't accept it.

Spoken by someone who still has refused to give their definition of free will. :^)

I gave it. You objected to it.

 

[Rufus]

Is that soteriology, no.

Isn't "redemption" language of soteriology? Did God redeem both the Hebrews and the Egyptians when He "came down" to "rescue" his firstborn?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The notion that the Spirit must operate upon a person in a supernatural fashion, before he can believe, has neither the support of these texts, nor biblical instruction elsewhere.

The Spirit of God operates through the power of the gospel to bring one to faith in Christ (Rom. 1:16).

This is sufficient for one who will give it an honest hearing.
(Wayne Jackson)

Yes it’s just like any philosophy or faith . Only the gospel is true and actually is of God and is filled with life and salvation

 

[GWH]

You are like many here. You make points, but when people ask questions that the answers if you give them will undermine your position, you refuse to answer.

Spoken by someone who still has refused to give their definition of free will. :^)

I did give it. You didn't accept it.

No, you merely said "Ok. Thanks for the conversation." (in #4,651)

 

[Cameron143]

Spoken by someone who still has refused to give their definition of free will. :^)

I did give a definition. You just didn't like it.

 

[HeIsHere]

“He [Christ] came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God” (KJV).

Here the “power” to become sons of God is given only to those who already believe.

Nor can the relationship be achieved by means of any plan that might be devised by the “will of man" meaning >>> man was not in a position to devise the plan, only God could do that.
Rather, it is by means of a spiritual “birth” that such is accomplished and to experience the spiritual birth the call is to believe in the work of Christ Jesus on our behalf.

Every single Calvinist proof text offers no support for the dogma under contextual inspection.

 

[HeIsHere]

“He [Christ] came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God” (KJV).

Here the “power” to become sons of God is given only to those who already believe.

Nor can the relationship be achieved by means of any plan that might be devised by the “will of man" meaning >>> man was not in a position to devise the plan, only God could do that.
Rather, it is by means of a spiritual “birth” that such is accomplished and to experience the spiritual birth the call is to believe in the work of Christ Jesus on our behalf.

Every single Calvinist proof text offers no support for this dogma under contextual inspection.

 

[Cameron143]

Spoken by someone who still has refused to give their definition of free will. :^)

I did give a definition. You just didn't like it.

Spoken by someone who still has refused to give their definition of free will. :^)


No, you merely said "Ok. Thanks for the conversation." (in #4,651)

No. I gave my definition. Ask @keepingitreal.