Understanding God’s election

[Magenta]

Ezekiel 18:4 + 32

 

[Inquisitor]

I am not sure what you are saying. Men spread the Seed of God's Word but it is up to God when and where it grows?

Jesus describes someone planting seeds into four types of soil; the hard path, rocky, thorny, and good soil.

In Calvinism there is only two types of soil, the predestined soil and the reprobate soil.

 

[Magenta]

Jesus describes someone planting seeds into four types of soil; the hard path, rocky, thorny, and good soil.

In Calvinism there is only two types of soil, the predestined soil and the reprobate soil.

Does the seed produce a fruitful plant in anything other than good soil?

I care about what the Bibles says, not what Calvin teaches.

The Bible teaches that the natural man's heart is stony.

The Bible teaches that the natural man's mind is hostile to God.

The Bible teaches that the natural man suppresses the truth in unrighteousness because they love darkness.

The Bible says they not only love darkness but are darkness themselves.

Are you trying to grow mushrooms?

The false doctrine is a good medium for it.

 

[cv5]

Calvinites dropped the ball again huh?
Yes. Yes they did. Epic fail.

[Exo 3:19-20 KJV] 19 And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand. 20 And I will stretch out my hand, and smite Egypt with all my wonders which I will do in the midst thereof: and after that he will let you go

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I am not sure what you are saying. Men spread the Seed of God's Word but it is up to God when and where it grows?

I was just talking about the parable sister when I had posted that to her . So the things it says in the parable that happen like this

“Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭8:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i don’t think this is Gods Will sister or he took the word so they could t believe it at all , I take it as Satan is deceiving them to believe other things after they hear Gods word like in Eden .

or this

“They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭8:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

again I dont blame God if a person falls away when they are tempted

Or this again

“And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭8:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Arbus I dont perceive to be Gods work in and for them or him deciding but rather the gospel is Informing humans of Gods word and bidding us to believe calling us to believe and follow Jesus.

I dont blame God for how we respond to what he’s done to save us no . My personal opinion and belief is that part is on us whether we respond or we don’t.

He’s told us the outcome of each path we choose whether good or evil . if we believe him well be saved is my belief

 

[Cameron143]

Jesus describes someone planting seeds into four types of soil; the hard path, rocky, thorny, and good soil.

In Calvinism there is only two types of soil, the predestined soil and the reprobate soil.

pfs...Calvinism accepts 4 soils.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Jesus describes someone planting seeds into four types of soil; the hard path, rocky, thorny, and good soil.

In Calvinism there is only two types of soil, the predestined soil and the reprobate soil.

also , no one specially prepares only certain soil so it will grow and fails to orepsre other soul so it won’t grow , the seed is just scattered everywhere and the soil reacts to the seed planted otherwise “the birds of the air “ the devil eat it up so it can’t grow .

theres nothing especially done for any type of soil the same seed is given but the soil produces the fruit or lack thier of based on its reaction

 

[Magenta]

I was just talking about the parable sister when I had posted that to her . So the things it says in the parable that happen like this

“Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭8:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i don’t think this is Gods Will sister or he took the word so they could t believe it at all , I take it as Satan is deceiving them to believe other things after they hear Gods word like in Eden .

or this

“They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭8:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

again I dont blame God if a person falls away when they are tempted

Or this again

“And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭8:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Arbus I dont perceive to be Gods work in and for them or him deciding but rather the gospel is Informing humans of Gods word and bidding us to believe calling us to believe and follow Jesus.

I dont blame God for how we respond to what he’s done to save us no . My personal opinion and belief is that part is on us whether we respond or we don’t.

He’s told us the outcome of each path we choose whether good or evil . if we believe him well be saved is my belief

Satan cannot do anything God does not allow. I wonder what the haters will say about that Biblical truth.

 

[Cameron143]

also , no one specially prepares only certain soil so it will grow and fails to orepsre other soul so it won’t grow , the seed is just scattered everywhere and the soil reacts to the seed planted otherwise “the birds of the air “ the devil eat it up so it can’t grow .

theres nothing especially done for any type of soil the same seed is given but the soil produces the fruit or lack thier of based on its reaction

Who made the soil?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Satan cannot do anything God does not allow.

So so God is the one wanting the seed to be snatched so they can’t believe ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Who made the soil?

God that’s my point . Has been all along God made mankind able to hear his word but we all don’t react to it the same way, which is what brings the final result .

 

[Magenta]

So so God is the one wanting the seed to be snatched so they can’t believe ?

It seems to be a common error to confuse what God will allow with what He
desires, even against the fact that God very plainly states what His desire is.

Jesus told Peter that Satan had asked to sift him as wheat. Do you think God allowed it?

 

[Cameron143]

God that’s my point . Has been all along God made mankind able to hear his word but we all don’t react to it the same way, which is what brings the final result .

This is the point of contention: not what is heard, but how it is received. All hear the same message. Only some respond unto salvation. The real question in my mind: are some able to respond in this way and others not? And what role does God have, if any, in this?

 

[Magenta]

This is the point of contention: not what is heard, but how it is received. All hear the same message. Only some respond unto salvation. The real question in my mind: are some able to respond in this way and others not? And what role does God have, if any, in this?

The gospel is foolishness to the natural man. They are slaves to sin but we obviously put too much weight on the fact that
the natural man is a slave to sin and captive to the will of the devil and a lover of darkness, hostile in their mind toward God.

Instead we are supposed to believe that the stony heart can obey God even though
Scripture plainly states that the natural man is INCAPABLE of obeying God.

 

[cv5]

Satan cannot do anything God does not allow. I wonder what the haters will say about that Biblical truth.

Satan doing his evil will is proof positive that he is created with it.

Same goes for everyone else.
Choosing. Sides.

Then comes the dividing.

 

[Rufus]

Yes Paul does, and I will post those verses again below. If you could only see that harmonizing all Scripture the way I have shared is better than ignoring those below (as OSAS Baptists are led to do), because it affirms/harmonizes both God's all-lovingness and omnipotence.

Passages that seem to support predestination may be harmonized with those supporting free will or perseverance as follows:

Scriptures that seem to support predestination as loss of free will:

1. Romans 8:38-39 – “anything else” refers to powers other than one’s own will.

Prove it from scripture.

2. John 10:27-29 – being “unsnatchable” does not disallow a person from choosing to jump out of the “Father’s hand”.

You're assuming a true believer would want to "jump out of the Father's hand"; yet, Jesus taught differently. His sheep will always follow him -- not perfectly in this age but nonetheless substantially and essentially. His Sheep KNOW Jesus' voice and will listen to him (see John 10). Also, Jesus taught that he would never lose so much as one -- even the ones who you think would jump ship on Him. After all, it is NOT God's will that he ever lose even so much as one (Jn 6:38-40; 17:12).

3. Ephesians 1:11-14 – what is “predestined” is God’s plan to choose or elect anyone who desires to be “in him” or to satisfy GRFS. Thus, being “marked in him with a seal” does not abrogate moral free will (cf. 2PT 1:10f).

And what you said above contradicts Rom 9 wherein it is basically stated that it doesn't depend of the man who desires or runs...BUT on God who has mercy.

4. 1 John 2:19 – when synthesized with verse 24 must mean that those who repudiate their Faith do not eternally “belong”.

They never did belong since their faith was spurious, making them false believers. Self-deception did its pernicious work in their hearts.

5. Psalm 135:6 – in light of “volitional verses” (such as DT 30:19 & MT 23:37) means that God “pleases” to permit limited free will.

It more likely means that man's way is not in himself (Jer 10:23), and that God in his infinite wisdom knows how to bring into sync his will and the wills of his moral agents.

6. Proverbs 21:1 – in order not to make God responsible for the sins cited in the rest of the chapter must mean that the “king’s heart” or will is choosing to cooperate with the Lord’s “hand” or directions.

Yeah...is that what Pharaoh did? He jumped up and down with ecstatic joy in choosing to "cooperate" with God's demands?

Scriptures that teach the possibility of apostasy include the following:

MT 10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”

RM 11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.”

1CR 15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.”

GL 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”

CL 1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”

2THS 1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.”

2TM 2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;”

HB 3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”

HB 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.”

HB 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”

JM 1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”

2PT 1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”

2PT 2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.”

1JN 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”

JUDE 21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”

RV 2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”

Why did you exclude Jude 1 and 24 from your cites that speak to God's KEEPING of his saints? Or for that matter a large body of other scriptures that teach this truth to wit: Lk 22:31-32; Jn 6:38-40; 14:15-18; 17:12; 18:9; Rom 14:4; 1Cor 1:8-9; 2Cor 1:20-22; Php 1:6; Eph 1:13-14; 2Tim 4:18; Heb 7:22-25; 1Pet 1:5; Ps 31:23; 32:7; 37:23-24, 28; 40:11, 17; 97:10; 121:7-8; Prov 2:8?

The moral values of Fair, Balanced and Honesty should be highly esteemed by you.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Satan cannot do anything God does not allow. I wonder what the haters will say about that Biblical truth.

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

( not Gods work and will )

They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

( also not Gods work and will )

And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

( also isnt Gods fault . he tells man in the gospel to repent of the love of money and possessions and not to let the ceres of this world destroy us )


But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭8:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and this also is not because these people were the only people God enabled to believe and obey him

It’s not Gods fault if a man worships money is it ? Or … is it ? I’m having alot of trouble following this idea the deeper we get into it

Or if a man follows lust into adultery and sin ? Os this because God caused him to do it and he never had a choice ?

Or one who kills someone ? Is this Gods Will or man’s who he gave dominion at the start ? And says repeatedly throughout from ot to new he’s going to hold each person accountable table fornthier own personal words and deeds not for anyone else’s ?

hownis this possible if he’s the one causing us to do good and evil deeds and it’s not us ? How could he judge us for his own doings ?

 

[Intersection]

The Elect of God Defined.

The Elect of God: The elect of God are those who God foreknown would, as believers without willful unbelief, ultimately choose to cooperate with His grace within the sound doctrine of Jesus Christ and the promptings of the Holy Spirit.

 

[GWH]

You're wrong. Your very first point you butcher. Nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus. To you, nothing means nothing but with an exception. So if you define nothing with an exception, to me that means something. So if you are going to reinvent definitions and add to scripture what isn't stated, you will proceed to poor doctrine. Since you see the error to be my unwillingness to consider what the scripture states and not your poor interpretation of scripture, what good will come of it?

It is obvious that the person who urged perseverance in faith (Paul) would mean "nothing except your willingness to keep on having faith" in order not to contradict himself.

It is NOT obvious that ignoring those urgings (believing Scriptures except those urging perseverance) is the better way to believe.

So, probably nothing good will come of our disagreeing beliefs until I collect on our bet in heaven (assuming you make it because you did not completely refuse to heed Paul's urgings :^)

 

[Rufus]

Jesus describes someone planting seeds into four types of soil; the hard path, rocky, thorny, and good soil.

In Calvinism there is only two types of soil, the predestined soil and the reprobate soil.

Which proves you don't understand the scriptures. The first 3 soils represented "reprobate" human hearts. Only the last soil was good.