WHY man is unable to choose Jesus and the Gospel

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Oct 28, 2024
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#1
NT verses are available for all of these disastrous conditions:

Inherited sin nature ...... Spiritual mortal enemy, Satan

Sin nature against God .... Satan’s army against him

Enemy of God .............. Under Satan’s power & control

Spiritually blind ......... Satan robs initial faith

Lives in an evil world .... Satan causes man to be:

Slave of sin ................ - deceived

In Spiritual darkness ....... - spiritually blind

Spiritually dead ............ - held a captive

Sees Gospel as foolishness .. - held a slave


Problems, persecutions,
worries, lures of wealth


Extremely difficult to
enter the Kingdom of God


Cannot come to Jesus

Father God must draw him to Jesus

Jesus must choose him
 

jacko

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2024
1,111
609
113
#2
So how Satan who is spirit able to sin in heaven? And why won't humans be able to sin in heaven in our spirit form.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
864
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#3
Just as well live it up while we can!

Man, what a hopeless and miserable message that is for unbelievers......But that is what happens to us when we are creature focused rather than Creator focused.

Isaiah 53:6
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned - every one - to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
.......Start with all and end with ALL.

Focus on the latter part of that verse. The grim, hopeless situation..........Begins to have HOPE.

John 3:16~~For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 12:32~~And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Luke 3:6~~And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

Acts 16:31~~They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,258
1,150
113
New Zealand
#4
Yea.. believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. All through the book of John.

Pretty simple.

This isnt getting saved because you did a good work... the whole thing is led by Jesus working on a person's soul.
 

j55

Active member
Sep 29, 2024
290
103
43
#5
Good thread and replys. I have nothing to add. Members did good job .
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,646
5,906
113
#6
NT verses are available for all of these disastrous conditions:

Inherited sin nature ...... Spiritual mortal enemy, Satan

Sin nature against God .... Satan’s army against him

Enemy of God .............. Under Satan’s power & control

Spiritually blind ......... Satan robs initial faith

Lives in an evil world .... Satan causes man to be:

Slave of sin ................ - deceived

In Spiritual darkness ....... - spiritually blind

Spiritually dead ............ - held a captive

Sees Gospel as foolishness .. - held a slave


Problems, persecutions,
worries, lures of wealth


Extremely difficult to
enter the Kingdom of God


Cannot come to Jesus

Father God must draw him to Jesus

Jesus must choose him
Why was God always offering people a choice to live or die if they have no Choice ? Just his twisted sense of humor or ?

“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭

“For that they hated knowledge, And did not choose the fear of the LORD:”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭1:29‬ ‭
V could not

Let us choose to us judgment: Let us know among ourselves what is good.”
‭‭Job‬ ‭34:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

v your hopelessly wicked and have no choice

“What man is he that feareth the LORD? Him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭25:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the only reason people have a thought they have no choice is when we reject the choice Gods given us and claim there’s no choice to make ….it’s like self paralysis

We should choose Christ anyone who listens to his word hears the call
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
1,821
446
83
#7
Good thread and replys. I have nothing to add. Members did good job .
I agree except for adding that if man is unable to be saved, then the whole POS from Adam to RV makes no sense. Scriptures teaching human culpability include DT 30:19, MT 23:37, 2THS 2:10, 1TM 2:3-4 & 2PT 3:9.
 

glf

Active member
Mar 18, 2023
307
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#8
Rom 10: 13-17:
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Eph 4: 11-13:
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Mk 16: 20:
And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
Jn 3: 19:
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

The Church's ministry is to bring the gospel to the world. Can the lost believe without hearing the gospel? The Holy Spirit reprove's unbelievers for their sin. When a member of the body of Christ brings the gospel to the lost, the Holy Spirit convicts those being ministered to for their sins. If they believe the word of God spoken and respond with a godly sorrow confessing their sins; Jesus will put a mustard seed of faith into their soul and the Holy Spirit will baptize them into the body of Christ and take up residence in their Spirits.
Jn 16: 8-9:
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me;
1 Cor 7: 10:
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
Rom 10: 10:
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Heb 12: 2:
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
1 Cor 12: 13:
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Eph 1: 13:
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


So, the lost do not come to the Lord without hearing the gospel.
They do not come to the Lord without believing the Lord's word being spoken unto them.
The lost do not turn to the Lord if they respond with the sorrow of the world when convicted.
Also, they don't confess asking Jesus for forgiveness.
And they love darkness rather than the light.

The above is true even though we're told in Rom 10: 8:
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,715
548
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#9
So, the lost do not come to the Lord without hearing the gospel.
They do not come to the Lord without believing the Lord's word being spoken unto them.
The lost do not turn to the Lord if they respond with the sorrow of the world when convicted.
Also, they don't confess asking Jesus for forgiveness.
And they love darkness rather than the light.

The above is true even though we're told in Rom 10: 8:
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
At Pentecost, who spoke? God through them or man the disciples?
What has happened since? Did Jesus ever speak of himself or of Father only as his leader *The Holy Spirit" ?
Born again is: Born new from God Father in risen Son for us to stand in as in Col 1:21-23 to me to stand in, no matter what troubles happen, can we the people still stand as Job did in the book of Job.see what Satan said to God then, and see our own troubles as good for us to learn from willingly, thank you, thanking God, regardless whether die or not

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
Noting: this was said before his one time death ever took place, and was a prediction of his being risen for us to be that right now in Father's truth too, thank you
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,715
548
113
#10
NT verses are available for all of these disastrous conditions:

Inherited sin nature ...... Spiritual mortal enemy, Satan

Sin nature against God .... Satan’s army against him

Enemy of God .............. Under Satan’s power & control

Spiritually blind ......... Satan robs initial faith

Lives in an evil world .... Satan causes man to be:

Slave of sin ................ - deceived

In Spiritual darkness ....... - spiritually blind

Spiritually dead ............ - held a captive

Sees Gospel as foolishness .. - held a slave


Problems, persecutions,
worries, lures of wealth


Extremely difficult to
enter the Kingdom of God


Cannot come to Jesus

Father God must draw him to Jesus

Jesus must choose him
Unable, because the first birth has control and learns to want control over punishment man does to them.
The Second birth given one, anyone God chooses and I believe God chose all to either believe God or not consciously so. The new begins and one can depends on God
Philippians 1:6
being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Philippians 1:11
being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Believe, God in Son has completed the need for you too, Law fulfilled in Son that Prophesied of his coming here to earth first. We are all reconciled by God Father through Son's done work. John 19:30, Matt 5:17, Hebrews 9:14-17, Hebrews 7:11-12
It is completed for us, the people to believe God in thanksgiving and praise over it, all sin taken away as far as the east is from the west in his one time willing death for us. That got done in Son for us to be reconciled
2 Corinthians 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2 Corinthians 5:20
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Therefore turn to God over self and any other person here on earth presently seen. What you do not see is eternal and what I see physically is not eternal, only temporal. And only the born again by God can see this.
therefore seek this truth out from God personally, not others please. read the entire Bible for to know truth over errors here on earth used by others to get what they want, as has still been happening since the first Adam fell in unbelief to begin with. The second Adam, Jesus did believe all the way to death once for us all. Now is risen for us to believe and be risen also in this love given us humbly so. Eternally alive is better than temporal gain here on earth, to me anyways, thank you God
 

glf

Active member
Mar 18, 2023
307
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#11
At Pentecost, who spoke? God through them or man the disciples?
What has happened since? Did Jesus ever speak of himself or of Father only as his leader *The Holy Spirit" ?
Born again is: Born new from God Father in risen Son for us to stand in as in Col 1:21-23 to me to stand in, no matter what troubles happen, can we the people still stand as Job did in the book of Job.see what Satan said to God then, and see our own troubles as good for us to learn from willingly, thank you, thanking God, regardless whether die or not

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
Noting: this was said before his one time death ever took place, and was a prediction of his being risen for us to be that right now in Father's truth too, thank you



The entire New Testament scriptures were written after Pentecost!!!
Sadly, it's hard for me to even understand the point you're trying to make!
Seems like an unusual way to discount scripture that goes against your opinions. This kind of twisting allows you to make what ever you believe; to be the truth, all by adjusting the timing of when to apply what the Lord says.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,715
548
113
#12
The entire New Testament scriptures were written after Pentecost!!!
Sadly, it's hard for me to even understand the point you're trying to make!
Seems like an unusual way to discount scripture that goes against your opinions. This kind of twisting allows you to make what ever you believe; to be the truth, all by adjusting the timing of when to apply what the Lord says.
The Lord has not stopped speaking. Father uses people to speak through. Yet not those that claim ir as so, to be a leader over people, imho.
Luke 21:14-15, you do not see that yet, it is not you that does the work, it is God's done work of Son getting done in us, in love to all over only the few flesh normally does
Going to that cross willingly was/is for us all to turn from self. The self can't be saved, yet the Soul can and is by God for all those that choose God in belief of this love for us all, Jesus is risen and alive as our connection to Father, believe receive and see new
and I am not one nor anyone else are able to deliver the entire truth either, So sorry you do not understand this truth from God to you yet. Not accusing not excusing, not praising or putting down
Saying truth, for you to hear from Father over me and everyone else too, thank you
God just loves us all
1 John 2 is the propitiation for all our sins to be gone from us, having compassion to not harm others ever again in people being, I am right and others are wrong attitudes. I need God's lead, anyone else?
Love to you 1 Cor 13:4-7
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
#13
We should choose Christ anyone who listens to his word hears the call
That is right and they are not born unable to respond to the call.

If they choose to suppress truth they make that choice it is illogical to state they can "only suppress" if they did not have the option to do so.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,131
30,265
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#14
We should choose Christ anyone who listens to his word hears the call
Acts 7:51
You stiff-necked people with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit, just as your fathers did.


Luke 8:8
Still other seed fell on good soil, where it sprang up and produced a crop—
a hundredfold.” As Jesus said this, He called out, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”


Deuteronomy 29:4
Yet to this day the LORD has not given you a mind to understand, eyes to see, or ears to hear.


Isaiah 6:9-10
And He replied: “Go and tell this people, ‘Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.’ Make the hearts of this people calloused; deafen their ears and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed.”


Isaiah 44:18
They do not comprehend or discern, for He has shut their eyes so they cannot see and closed their minds so they cannot understand.


From Matthew 13
13This is why I speak to them in parables: ‘Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.’ 14 In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled: ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. 15For this people’s heart has grown callous; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.’


Jeremiah 5:21
“Hear this, O foolish and senseless people, who have eyes but do not see, who have ears but do not hear.


Jeremiah 6:10
To whom can I give this warning? Who will listen to me? Look, their ears are closed, so they
cannot hear. See, the word of the LORD has become offensive to them; they find no pleasure in it.


Ezekiel 12:2
“Son of man, you are living in a rebellious house. They have eyes to see but
do not see, and ears to hear but do not hear, for they are a rebellious house.


Matthew 11:25
At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You
have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.


John 8:43
Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message.


John 12:39-40
For this reason they were unable to believe. For again, Isaiah says: “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so that they cannot see with their eyes, and understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.”


Mark 4:11-12
He replied, “The mystery of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to those on the outside everything is expressed in parables, so that, ‘ they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven.’”


Romans 11:7-8
What then? What Israel was seeking, it failed to obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened, 8as it is written: “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see, and ears that could not hear, to this very day.”



John 12:38b-40 “Lord, who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the Lord
been revealed?” For this reason they were unable to believe. For again, Isaiah says: “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so that they cannot see with their eyes, and understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.”
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,646
5,906
113
#15
That is right and they are not born unable to respond to the call.

If they choose to suppress truth they make that choice it is illogical to state they can "only suppress" if they did not have the option to do so.
reminds me of this

“and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭2:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Imagine now that secretly God just didn’t make them able , but other he chose and made them so able they can’t refuse but at the same time

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The whole theory that he’s the one decoding who can hear and believe and act is contrary. not only flawed but contrary to Gods character and word throughout
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,339
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#16
The whole theory that he’s the one decoding who can hear and believe and act is contrary. not only flawed but contrary to Gods character and word throughout
Well put, "decoding who can hear and act." (y)

Most often the verses used to affirm the "Decoding God" are not regarding spiritual salvation or they concern God intervening after people have made their choices to not believe and still again it may not be about spiritual salvation.

I see that too, it does great damage to God's character and the trustworthiness.

"Here is my offer to humanity but unfortunately you cannot believe it, my omnipotence and my insecurity demand my glory is intact and affirmed." :rolleyes:
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,646
5,906
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#17
Acts 7:51



John 12:38b-40 “Lord, who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the Lord
been revealed?” For this reason they were unable to believe. For again, Isaiah says: “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so that they cannot see with their eyes, and understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.”
sister theres alot of context you’ve left out quoting these for instance

“But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? And to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; That they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, And be converted, And I should heal them.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:37-40‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This has a long story before it gets there
First it was a specific response to the tribes of Israel after they spent generations rejecting God and turning thier eyes and ears away from him

“And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; And seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, And their ears are dull of hearing, And their eyes have they closed;

( first they waxed fat and proud and closed thier eyes and tbier ears became dull towards the lord , and then Isaiah came speaking forth blindness and deafness. )

Lest they should see with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart, And should be converted, And I should heal them.

Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:25-29‬ ‭

those are good single verses but your leaving out the backstory of Israel and God

This happened first to bring that curse

“Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: ( why is he going to do this to Israel ?)

because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this went on sis for generations but remember there were some generations that obeyed and kept the lords law later they turned away from him and then after this he sent the prophecy to them of him blinding and making then deaf so that they wouldn’t hear when he came with salvation.

to just say God randomly does these things and man has no choice is not correct. He makes covenants with people and then He honors the covenant he made with the people both the good parts and bad parts. Israel was blinded because of how they treated Gods word in tbe covenant he made with them it’s actually written in the law what would happen if they rejected his word and worshipped false gods.

God didn’t make them unable to hear him, first they turned thier eyes and ears away from him and after many generations calling for them to repent then he blinded them to the New that was going to come.

all those verses are wonderful but there’s a lot of understanding they leave out like why did God blind israel and make them deaf?

was it just his will so they couldn’t be saved ? Or his reaction after they rejected him for generations ? Did they make a wrong choice sister ?

“Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you have to follow what happened from the covenant being made through the prophets . Look at the early times

“And when Joshua had let the people go, the children of Israel went every man unto his inheritance to possess the land. And the people served the LORD all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders that outlived Joshua, who had seen all the great works of the LORD, that he did for Israel.”
‭‭Judges‬ ‭2:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Bit they were blind deaf and they weren’t capable though ?

But then after that

“And also all that generation were gathered unto their fathers: and there arose another generation after them, which knew not the LORD, nor yet the works which he had done for Israel.”
‭‭Judges‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭

Here’s the part people need to realize

“And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim: and they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods, of the gods of the people that were round about them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the LORD to anger. And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth.”
‭‭Judges‬ ‭2:11-13‬ ‭

This is long long before Isaiah’s prophecy regarding Israel’s ability to see and hear which was done on response to thier covenant breaking and turning away thier eyes and ears

“Whithersoever they went out, the hand of the LORD was against them for evil, as the LORD had said, and as the LORD had sworn unto them: ( he promised a lot of evil to isreal In the ot because they kept rejecting him ) and they were greatly distressed.

Nevertheless the LORD raised up judges, which delivered them out of the hand of those that spoiled them. And yet they would not hearken unto their judges, but they went a whoring after other gods, and bowed themselves unto them: they turned quickly out of the way which their fathers walked in, obeying the commandments of the LORD; but they did not so.”
‭‭Judges‬ ‭2:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this went on for generations and generations they would turn against God worship false gods , he would crush them , they would repent and he would send a judge to lift them back up …..

once in awhile there would be a generation who obeyed the lord and kept his commandments like above there . It’s not that they weren’t capable sister

Random single verses never really tell the story of what’s actually happened . But can really give the appearance of most anything we argue by pulling the context away .

There was a covenant made with a certain people and they broke that covenant and the lord honored his word in that covenant . It began being fulfilled during the gospel which is why so many nt writers quote that same verse about isreals blindness

Not because God just decided not to save them and made them unable to choose good. but because they rejected him and his ways then he eventually blinded them in anger towards them fornthier deeds and words and breaking of his covenant

Single random verses can be like jumping into the middle of a book not knowing what led there . yes sister God made israel blind in response to thier choices beforehand against him and the truth

Like this situation

“and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

( same for isreal in tbe ot )

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭2:10-12‬ ‭KJV

first the truth is rejected and then after that comes the lie …..just like Eden , don’t do it you’ll die for sure ,you won’t die it will make you as gods “

The choice remains before man since Eden can choose life or death . anyone can believe the gospel and be saved . some don’t and won’t , some do until they hear the words in it , some believe it and are saved. God is not the one deciding who can believe the gospel and be saved and who can’t believe the gospel and be saved .

Man inherantly has the choice between good and evil since they ate the fruit , but what if they get convinced “ you can’t choose the good “ ?

man became wicked by our own Will God has been trying to redeem us since
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,646
5,906
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#18
Well put, "decoding who can hear and act." (y)

Most often the verses used to affirm the "Decoding God" are not regarding spiritual salvation or they concern God intervening after people have made their choices to not believe and still again it may not be about spiritual salvation.

I see that too, it does great damage to God's character and the trustworthiness.

"Here is my offer to humanity but unfortunately you cannot believe it, my omnipotence and my insecurity demand my glory is intact and affirmed." :rolleyes:
Sorry typo lol I meant deciding it happens a lot the typos I’m sorry a


“Here is my offer to humanity but unfortunately you cannot believe it, my omnipotence and my insecurity demand my glory is intact and affirmed”

yes a constant contradiction

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

……but some of you I’m going to make it impossible for you to hear the truth and believe you’ll have no choice I’ll decide who believes and doesn’t believe.

“and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Everyone has an atonement right in front of them

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭45:22‬ ‭


“and brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭16:30-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I don’t know really I think it’s a silly idea and is far too contrary for me I believe anyone can be saved but a lot of people hear the gospel and don’t want it like this parable regarding Israel and then gentiles after

“The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: and the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.


But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.


Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:2-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s an invitation , a call home for everyone some will believe some won’t but it’s just my own opinion everyone has thiers

Its too contrary from the scripture for me
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,131
30,265
113
#19
first the truth is rejected and then after that comes the lie …..just like Eden ,
don’t do it you’ll die for sure ,you won’t die it will make you as gods “

The choice remains before man since Eden can choose life or death . anyone can believe the gospel and be saved . some don’t and won’t , some do until they hear the words in it , some believe it and are saved. God is not the one deciding who can believe the gospel and be saved and who can’t believe the gospel and be saved .

Man inherantly has the choice between good and evil since they ate the fruit , but what if they get convinced “ you can’t choose the good “ ?

man became wicked by our own Will God has been trying to redeem us since
There are many verses saying the same thing, it does not all hang on Isaiah or Ezekiel's context. They had uncircumcised ears and hearts, do you really not see it??? GOD HAS HIDDEN THESE THINGS, that is explicitly stated. And it does not apply to just the Israelites, it is mankind's lot, echoed throughout the NT in the very words of Jesus no less. Inherently man is hostile in his mind toward God, is hardened in his heart from which this choice must be made, in need of a spiritual rebirth, of having his ears and heart circumcised, and being freed from the will of the devil. Jesus came to set the captives free, open the eyes of the blind, give hearing to the deaf. I praise Him for that. If you of your own accord raised yourself from death and opened your own blind eyes and unstopped your own deaf ears my hat is off to you. The Bible says it is not by man's will or effort.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,646
5,906
113
#20
There are many verses saying the same thing, it does not all hang on Isaiah or Ezekiel's context. They had uncircumcised ears and hearts, do you really not see it??? GOD HAS HIDDEN THESE THINGS, that is explicitly stated. And it does not apply to just the Israelites, it is mankind's lot, echoed throughout the NT in the very words of Jesus no less. Inherently man is hostile in his mind toward God, is hardened in his heart from which this choice must be made, in need of a spiritual rebirth, of having his ears and heart circumcised, and being freed from the will of the devil. Jesus came to set the captives free, open the eyes of the blind, give hearing to the deaf. I praise Him for that. If you of your own accord raised yourself from death and opened your own blind eyes and unstopped your own deaf ears my hat is off to you. The Bible says it is not by man's will or effort.
What does this section of Scripture say sister ?

“neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; and hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; that they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:


…….And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:25-27, 30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬


or what does this section say ? Not just a verse but what’s he saying here regarding our subject ?

“Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:( this is important to what you guys are saying God isn’t like that )

but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. ( this is what he had told cain way back just do what’s right and you’ll be accepted offering cain a path to righteousness )

The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) that word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judæa, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

( the gospel )

And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:34-40, 42-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What you are talking about is specific to israel he told them when he made the covenant if they broke it what would happen he later fulfilled it in the gospel when Israel ( but for the few chosen to witness the gospel to all people ) rejected and had Jesus crucified. It’s something the ot said for a reason and gives the reasoning specifically pertaining to israel based on tbier actions towards God for generations

sis anyone on earth can believe the gospel any one can believe anything they hear actually . Put a man on an island and preach Islam to him and nothing else he’ll believe it that will be his faith

at he works offers multiple things to believe in because mankind believes it’s part of our design we’re meant to believe only God but we’re able to believe whatever we hear and then choose to be true.

When you guys speak of election and choosing . What happened to the people God actually did choose ?

“Since the day that I brought forth my people out of the land of Egypt I chose no city among all the tribes of Israel to build an house in, that my name might be there; neither chose I any man to be a ruler over my people Israel: but I have chosen Jerusalem, that my name might be there; and have chosen David to be over my people Israel.”
‭‭2 Chronicles‬ ‭6:5-6‬ ‭

Later on

“And the LORD said, I will remove Judah also out of my sight, as I have removed Israel, and will cast off this city Jerusalem which I have chosen, and the house of which I said, My name shall be there.”
‭‭2 Kings‬ ‭23:27‬ ‭

it’s because of what they did after he chose them as his people . They provoked his wrath against them with thier constant rebellion and idol worship

they were the called and chosen of God but

“I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; a people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;

Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom, your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD,
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:2-3,


“But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number. Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If God is causing all this and not allowing them to hear and believe ….why is he so angry with them ? Why does he sware again and again to punish them for thier deeds and ways against him if he’s the one causing it ? How can God judge everyone like he said based on thoer works of some of them were never even able to hear and believe him to begin with ? Would it be gods fault of someone ended up in hell ? Since he gave them no choice or chance to hear and believe and be saved ?

i don’t know sis but I do know your wonderful and a blessing even if we disagree