Understanding God’s election

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HeIsHere said:
You distort personal belief, how much worse can it get than that.
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Personal belief is a matter of revelation. Read Matthew 16 and see how Jesus builds His church. I don't deny that salvation is a very personal and intimate coming of God to an individual. I can show you scripturally how the entire Godhead participates in it. You can't get any more personal than that. But to say God has come to every individual in this way isn't true.
 
cv5 said:
Unlikely. Which makes them entirely suspect as I have earlier opined.
A pre-selection gospel is far to absurd and disturbing to stomach at face value.
Which is why this doctrine is left lurking in the shadows.
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The gospel is simply Jesus Christ and Him crucified. No preacher, regardless of his beliefs, knows who will respond in faith. But as long as Christ is preached, some might.
 
HeIsHere said:
total depravity/inability.
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For everybody but them, the lucky few chosenites. Now they feel entitled to CONDEMN everybody else.
Somehow they obtained God's favor long before they were born and the rest get excoriated for their bad luck.
 
Cameron143 said:
Personal belief is a matter of revelation. Read Matthew 16 and see how Jesus builds His church. I don't deny that salvation is a very personal and intimate coming of God to an individual. I can show you scripturally how the entire Godhead participates in it. You can't get any more personal than that. But to say God has come to every individual in this way isn't true.
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The matter is you cannot preach it that way... the personal revelation required according to your system in NOT in the inherent power and truth of the Gospel but in God making it happen apart from any personal belief.

I really think you do not understand that Christ Jesus is a personal Saviour which is accepted and received by those who believe it to be true.
 
HeIsHere said:
The matter is you cannot preach it that way... the personal revelation required according to your system in NOT in the inherent power and truth of the Gospel but in God making it happen apart from any personal belief.

I really think you do not understand that Christ Jesus is a personal Saviour which is accepted and received by those who believe it to be true.
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It is not apart from personal belief. And it is not apart from a very personal coming of God to an individual. You simply believe man's response is the most important factor and I believe God's actions are the compelling factor.
 
Cameron143 said:
It is not apart from personal belief. And it is not apart from a very personal coming of God to an individual. You simply believe man's response is the most important factor and I believe God's actions are the compelling factor.
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I know and scripture teaches the power and truth inherent in the message of the Gospel and the very words of God is the compelling factor.
 
HeIsHere said:
I know and scripture teaches the power and truth inherent in the message of the Gospel and the very words of God is the compelling factor.
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That's only half the equation. Back to John 3...born again by water and the Spirit. If it were simply the gospel then everyone who heard it would get saved.
 
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Cameron143 said:
While it's a very witty response, it's also a misguided response. But I applaud your humor.
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Am I to applaud you utter failure to respond in any sensible or meaningful way that would prove your position less absurd that I have made it?

Anyhoo......the Calvinites got their clock cleaned and reset to the present, got their time machine wrecked, and their lottery has been deemed illegal.

They got nothing. They never did.
 
HeIsHere said:
Umm I never used the word "self-rightous" in my response so I have no idea what you are stating here.

If you believe faith at the point of salvation is a gift, in that God gave you faith/belief because without His intervention all you could do is not believe then you fall within the Calvinist camp.

The logical conclusion of gifting "saving belief" is that God saves some and not others.
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I actually noticed that after posting and it was too late. I'm sorry, I got you and someone else's comments mixed up. That is my bad and that comment wasn't actually to you, I mean I mistakenly responded to you, but it was ALL my mix up, so please disregard that comment and forgive me if it offended you for absolutely no reason.
 
cv5 said:
Am I to applaud you utter failure to respond in any sensible or meaningful way that would prove your position less absurd that I have made it?

Anyhoo......the Calvinites got their clock cleaned and reset to the present, got their time machine wrecked, and their lottery has been deemed illegal.

They got nothing. They never did.
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LOL, how do you claim to cleaning anyone's anything? You don't even respect people enough to listen to what they actually say. You clean your own clock and that's about it. Then boast about it. You're something else. Bless your little heart.
 
Cameron143 said:
That's only half the equation. Back to John 3...born again by water and the Spirit. If it were simply the gospel then everyone who heard it would get saved.
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I stated who believes and trust (which is also part of the concept in Greek) in the TRUTH of what Christ Jesus offers, see it is a personal action.

But you deny the individual moral ability respond to truth and you also assert we are born that way.....so you have no Gospel to offer.

Your Gospel is you can do nothing, you have nothing to do, you have no recourse but what and see what God does to make you believe.
 
cv5 said:
Am I to applaud you utter failure to respond in any sensible or meaningful way that would prove your position less absurd that I have made it?

Anyhoo......the Calvinites got their clock cleaned and reset to the present, got their time machine wrecked, and their lottery has been deemed illegal.

They got nothing. They never did.
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I'm not a Calvinist, and poor doctrine should be exposed. Unfortunately, all you have destroyed is your own witness as a Christian. Your denigration of individuals and misrepresentation of their ideas reflects poorly on you.
 
Jimbone said:
I actually noticed that after posting and it was too late. I'm sorry, I got you and someone else's comments mixed up. That is my bad and that comment wasn't actually to you, I mean I mistakenly responded to you, but it was ALL my mix up, so please disregard that comment and forgive me if it offended you for absolutely no reason.
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No big deal, I have experienced much, much worse by the people who pretend to be nice at first, I rather deal with a straight shooter.
 
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Cameron143 said:
I'm not a Calvinist, and poor doctrine should be exposed. Unfortunately, all you have destroyed is your own witness as a Christian. Your denigration of individuals and misrepresentation of their ideas reflects poorly on you.
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Calvinism/Reformed as an umbrella word for TULIP is ubiquitous across the churches it is rare to find any church that has not been affected.
 
HeIsHere said:
I stated who believes and trust (which is also part of the concept in Greek) in the TRUTH of what Christ Jesus offers, see it is a personal action.

But you deny the individual moral ability respond to truth and you also assert we born that way.....so you have no Gospel to offer.

Your Gospel is you can do nothing, you have nothing to do, you have no recourse but what and see what God does to make you believe.
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Again your assertion is wrong. Man is capable of responding morally. But due to the corruption of sin, his nature has been changed. And he can only respond from his post sin nature and not his pre sin nature. He is still a moral creature having been created in the image of God.
 
HeIsHere said:
Calvinism/Reformed as an umbrella word for TULIP is ubiquitous across the churches it is rare to find any church that has not been affected.
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"Calvinist" or any variation of the name has become a pejorative in many circles, including here. As far as what happens in churches I wouldn't know. I've attended the same church for over 25 years.
 
Cameron143 said:
Again your assertion is wrong. Man is capable of responding morally. But due to the corruption of sin, his nature has been changed. And he can only respond from his post sin nature and not his pre sin nature. He is still a moral creature having been created in the image of God.
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Yeah I get tired of correcting the same wrong doctrine making sure to include all the details of your personal take on TULIP.

Here fixed

I stated who believes and trusts (which is also part of the concept in Greek) in the TRUTH of what Christ Jesus offers, see it is a personal action.

But you deny the individual moral ability to respond positively to truth and you also assert we are born morally incapable of responding positively and this is not established in scripture when all verses that seem to support this when take out of context are exegeted in context!!

That is God's provision to humanity ... born with personal volition to respond positively to the power and truth of God's words and the Gospel message and this is established in scripture....

Your doctrine has not no Gospel to offer anyone.

I will just make sure to cut an paste it the exact some way so all the bases are covered.
 
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