Understanding God’s election
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Belief is the response of faith. Faith must already exist for belief to be formed. And faith in God is not internally sourced by an individual. Faith is the result of the Spirit of God employing the word of God. In other words, the experience of faith is internal, but the cause of faith is external. It comes from God at work in you.
You didn't get baptized to be saved. You were baptized because you were saved. In like manner, you didn't believe to get saved. You believed because you were saved.
You didn't get baptized to be saved. You were baptized because you were saved. In like manner, you didn't believe to get saved. You believed because you were saved.
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Thank you, it gets so hard to read ideas that come against the very nature of God!
And to add to the offense it is all good, it is justified because God is sovereign, again twisting the concept of "sovereignty' as well.
I really think people are here looking for converts and the rest of us are placed here to protect the less aware.
There are people on CC who have been converted into this un-biblical doctrine, sadly I might add.
It is like @Kroogz stated somewhere lol, their words are all "really good word salad with honey mustard to 'sound' good."
And to add to the offense it is all good, it is justified because God is sovereign, again twisting the concept of "sovereignty' as well.
I really think people are here looking for converts and the rest of us are placed here to protect the less aware.
There are people on CC who have been converted into this un-biblical doctrine, sadly I might add.
It is like @Kroogz stated somewhere lol, their words are all "really good word salad with honey mustard to 'sound' good."
In Greek one is a verb one is a noun.
The order is wrong.... according to scripture... one believes by hearing or reading the Gospel of Christ Jesus and His work on one's behalf and is saved by believing that it is true for them personally and then God imparts His gift of eternal life.
Salvation before belief is not in scripture.
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Here is a (less than perfect) analogy:
-Every person born has a built in spiritual "receiver" (Rom 1) by which they can receive Gods truth.
-God has been "broadcasting" His "true signal" (His Word of Truth) from long long ago (Heb 1:1-2).
-Every man may CHOOSE to tune in to this "signal" (which is emitting 24/7) with his "receiver".
-Those who DO choose to tune in and STAY TUNED in to it are those who "abide", and know the truth and are set free
(John 8:31-32, 36, John 15).
-Those who tune in for a while and then tune out are the rocky/thorny soil (Luke 8)
-Those who tune in and STAY tuned in are also the good soil and then bear fruit (Luke 8 et al)
Every man knows the frequency of Gods signal, and tuning in (or not) is a choice predicated upon an ACT OF FREE WILL.
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BTW, the fact that God engages man by means of permissive covenants utterly
obliterates the pretentions of the hyper-Calvinites. Covenants have been and can be broken.
Even the "younger son" ADAM (the latter king of Eden) willfully broke the Adamic covenant (see Luke 15).
And the "older son" SATAN (the former king of Eden) willfully rebelled against the Father as well (Luke 15)
and wanted to kill the "younger son" and the Father as well.
-Every person born has a built in spiritual "receiver" (Rom 1) by which they can receive Gods truth.
-God has been "broadcasting" His "true signal" (His Word of Truth) from long long ago (Heb 1:1-2).
-Every man may CHOOSE to tune in to this "signal" (which is emitting 24/7) with his "receiver".
-Those who DO choose to tune in and STAY TUNED in to it are those who "abide", and know the truth and are set free
(John 8:31-32, 36, John 15).
-Those who tune in for a while and then tune out are the rocky/thorny soil (Luke 8)
-Those who tune in and STAY tuned in are also the good soil and then bear fruit (Luke 8 et al)
Every man knows the frequency of Gods signal, and tuning in (or not) is a choice predicated upon an ACT OF FREE WILL.
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BTW, the fact that God engages man by means of permissive covenants utterly
obliterates the pretentions of the hyper-Calvinites. Covenants have been and can be broken.
Even the "younger son" ADAM (the latter king of Eden) willfully broke the Adamic covenant (see Luke 15).
And the "older son" SATAN (the former king of Eden) willfully rebelled against the Father as well (Luke 15)
and wanted to kill the "younger son" and the Father as well.
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The only scriptures that pertain are the ones that deal with saving faith.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [a]this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
The gift is eternal life not faith, what is not of ourselves is the gift of eternal life, this aligns with the statement in Greek.
So much denial of Christ Jesus' very words, it blows my mind!
Jesus also commended the woman with the daughter with the demon; “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.”
Does it even make sense that Christ Jesus would speak well of someone for great faith, if such faith were a gift from God.
Does God get the blame for little faith too?
Luke 7:9: When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
Mark 11:22: And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
Luke 12:28: If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?
Jesus also commended the woman with the daughter with the demon; “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.”
Does it even make sense that Christ Jesus would speak well of someone for great faith, if such faith were a gift from God.
Does God get the blame for little faith too?
Luke 7:9: When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
Mark 11:22: And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
Luke 12:28: If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?
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The love of God in John 3:16 isn't a love of individual people. It is a love of His entire creation. It isn't humanity alone that groans for redemption. The work of Christ is sufficient to redeem the whole of creation. He came to destroy all the works of the devil. This is certainly in view.
The whole world also points to God's purpose in redeeming people from every nation, tribe, kindred, and tongue. Salvation was to proliferate throughout the whole of creation, much as the great commission states.
The whole world also points to God's purpose in redeeming people from every nation, tribe, kindred, and tongue. Salvation was to proliferate throughout the whole of creation, much as the great commission states.
"through faith": in order for it to be "not of yourselves", the faith must be part of the gift too - otherwise, it would neither
be "not of yourselves" nor "the gift of God" should man have to provide any portion of it. No way around it - the gift of salvation
must encompass everything that pertains to, or is related to, becoming saved.
[Eph 2:8 KJV] 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
be "not of yourselves" nor "the gift of God" should man have to provide any portion of it. No way around it - the gift of salvation
must encompass everything that pertains to, or is related to, becoming saved.
[Eph 2:8 KJV] 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Faith comes by hearing. It is what the Spirit creates using the word of God. Now possessing said belief, one gives evidence that the belief exists by actually doing acts that are reflective of the belief.
We don't believe what we do; we do what we believe. The doing is a reflection of what we believe. The chicken came before the egg because the chicken was what was created. Faith came before believing because faith is what was created.
We don't believe what we do; we do what we believe. The doing is a reflection of what we believe. The chicken came before the egg because the chicken was what was created. Faith came before believing because faith is what was created.
