Apologetics: witnessing to atheists

[Aaron56]

Well yes, because the HS = GW/Logos.

Not everything God says and will say is written down.
Knowledge and understanding beyond what was reasonable is given to believers all throughout the epistles.

I once met with a lesbian witch. She was having issues with her partner. I knew things about her she did not tell me. I could not have known them except by the Spirit. When she pressed me about how I knew, I told her that the Living God knows her because He made her. We had a very different conversation from that point on.

Had I read from the Bible she would have rejected what I was saying (simply because that's not what God was showing her). He wanted to show her that a man could be trusted with the care of her soul without being vengeful or manipulative.

 

[BobCarabbio]

Only because he could not teach a message to the mature. The Corinthian believers were carnal.

People who aren't BORN AGAIN have to basis to understand anything of A SPIRITUAL NATURE.

 

[GWH]

People who aren't BORN AGAIN have to basis to understand anything of A SPIRITUAL NATURE.

Well, as I just discovered while reading MT 13 to answer Magenta on another thread, Jesus indicates that seeking may be a process (rather than finding immediately) that begins with very little understanding and increases as folks LGW. Consider v.12, "Whoever has [minimal understanding] will be given more [as they LGW], and they will have an abundance [when they find God/GRFS and receive the HS]."

 

[GWH]

Today my newsfeed has an article about reasons ex-Christians become skeptics, so let us consider whether we can counter them.

First, they come to doubt the doctrines they were taught. I know this happened in my own life when I realized that the SBC omitted reading Scriptures that did not support the OSAS dogma. I do not know if this is why a daughter of a missionary became an atheist, but I was motivated to search GW for myself and found the doctrine of volition that needed to be harmonized. Apparently, how to harmonize this doctrine with those emphasizing God's sovereignty is still a problem for many on CC.

The second reason ex-Christians become skeptics per the newsfeed is because of perceived hypocrisy of people claiming to be Christians. I know this can happen when a respected church leader commits adultery or a priest commits pedophilia or a father commits incest, etc. Have y'all encountered someone who cites such cases or other types of hypocrisy as an excuse to commit apostasy?

 

[GWH]

The need cited by the newsfeed writer is for Christians to remain humble and stress fallibility even of leaders while pointing the disillusioned folks to Christ.

The next reason some ex-Christians become skeptics is perceived lack of evidence to support faith. Somehow by the time I became an adult I had the idea that atheists walked by scientific facts while Christians walked by blind faith.

 

[JMH]

Colossians 2:18
"Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ"

 

[JMH]

The second reason ex-Christians become skeptics per the newsfeed is because of perceived hypocrisy of people claiming to be Christians. I know this can happen when a respected church leader commits adultery or a priest commits pedophilia or a father commits incest, etc. Have y'all encountered someone who cites such cases or other types of hypocrisy as an excuse to commit apostasy?

the red flag here is "ex-Christians"
What is an ex-Christian???
you're either a saint or you ain't ,

 

[JMH]

the red flag here is "ex-Christians"
What is an ex-Christian???
you're either a saint or you ain't ,

the red flag here is "ex-Christians"
News flash for you my brother in Christ, not everyone who has priest or pastor in front of their name is a Christian, and the ones who place father before their name definitely are not reading their bibles.

 

[GWH]

the red flag here is "ex-Christians"
What is an ex-Christian???
you're either a saint or you ain't ,

Correct, an ex-Christian was a saint but now ain't!

 

[GWH]

Correct, and that is what Christians need to learn so they will not become disillusioned and ex.

 

[BobCarabbio]

The second reason ex-Christians become skeptics per the newsfeed is because of perceived hypocrisy of people claiming to be Christians. I know this can happen when a respected church leader commits adultery or a priest commits pedophilia or a father commits incest, etc. Have y'all encountered someone who cites such cases or other types of hypocrisy as an excuse to commit apostasy?

More likely that they were never Christians to begin with. omly religious church attenders.

YOU have to hold onto, and defend "Belief" (intellectual assent). But Biblical FAITH holds on to you.

 

[GWH]

More likely that they were never Christians to begin with. omly religious church attenders.

YOU have to hold onto, and defend "Belief" (intellectual assent). But Biblical FAITH holds on to you.

Correct, which means having absolute assurance of salvation is impossible until one's last breath on the deathbed, because one cannot know for sure whether he/she will become a "never Christian to begin with".

 

[Cameron143]

Correct, which means having absolute assurance of salvation is impossible until one's last breath on the deathbed, because one cannot know for sure whether he/she will become a "never Christian to begin with".

Not so according to 1 John 5:13.

 

[GWH]

Not so according to 1 John 5:13.

The word "know" is problematic from two angles:

First, unless we are brazen enough to claim infallibility, then "know" must mean relative confidence (PHP 1:6, 2CR 5:6-8) rather than absolute certainty.

Also, my understanding is that the Jewish usage of "know" means intimate and in some contexts even sexual experience rather than absolute certainty, which is why such knowledge does not contradict Paul saying that we walk by faith in Christ/the Gospel rather than by sight/certainty/proof.

 

[Cameron143]

The word "know" is problematic from two angles:

First, unless we are brazen enough to claim infallibility, then "know" must mean relative confidence (PHP 1:6, 2CR 5:6-8) rather than absolute certainty.

Also, my understanding is that the Jewish usage of "know" means intimate and in some contexts even sexual experience rather than absolute certainty, which is why such knowledge does not contradict Paul saying that we walk by faith in Christ/the Gospel rather than by sight/certainty/proof.

Knowing something intimately is to know in full, nothing left uncovered.

 

[GWH]

Knowing something intimately is to know in full, nothing left uncovered.

Since we know only the infinite and supernatural God has the omniscience to know everything fully, we know that "know" when referring to humans must mean a finite, natural and partial knowledge, as though looking at a mirror (1CR 13:12). At least I know that is true of me, so perhaps you are right, though I doubt it. (Is it time to make a bet? :^)

 

[Cameron143]

Since we know only the infinite and supernatural God has the omniscience to know everything fully, we know that "know" when referring to humans must mean a finite, natural and partial knowledge, as though looking at a mirror (1CR 13:12). At least I know that is true of me, so perhaps you are right, though I doubt it. (Is it time to make a bet? :^)

Do you possess the mind of Christ?
I will grant you that our knowing is finite, but that can be in amount and not degree. In other words, I may understand some aspect or truth concerning God to a large measure and understand other aspects sparsely.
Knowing here is experiential knowledge. One either has the experience or they do not.

 

[JMH]

Correct, an ex-Christian was a saint but now ain't!

You can't stop being a Christian if God has called you.
Romans 11:29 "For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable"

ex-something means once were. You can be once married hence ex-wife. As for ex-Christian, impossible..
1John 1:19 " They went out from us; but they were not of us....")

 

[GWH]

Do you possess the mind of Christ?
I will grant you that our knowing is finite, but that can be in amount and not degree. In other words, I may understand some aspect or truth concerning God to a large measure and understand other aspects sparsely.
Knowing here is experiential knowledge. One either has the experience or they do not.

As we LGW we develop the mind of Christ.

I see we agree on being finite/fallible, but amount = degree, so the word you want is to say our knowing can be qualitative and quantitative. The mind of Christ is qualitatively opposite from the mind of Satan, and the mind of Christ differs quantitatively from new to mature in Christians.

I see you switched definition of knowing from "in full" to experiential, so I guess we are good now. TTYL.

 

[Cameron143]

As we LGW we develop the mind of Christ.

I see we agree on being finite/fallible, but amount = degree, so the word you want is to say our knowing can be qualitative and quantitative. The mind of Christ is qualitatively opposite from the mind of Satan, and the mind of Christ differs quantitatively from new to mature in Christians.

I see you switched definition of knowing from "in full" to experiential, so I guess we are good now. TTYL.

I actually mean what I say. Your attempts to alter my meaning doesn't change what I intended. I didn't alter, but added given the post I was responding to, which wasn't yours but another poster's.
And amount and degree are not synonymous. I don't measure liquids by degree or latitude by amount.