Understanding God’s election
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I am thrilled that you are an OVERCOMER.
Rather than a mindless soulless robot the way the Calvinites would prefer of you.
You, too, shamelessly read your garbage into the Holy Word of God. The text doesn't even remotely hint at what you say about the clay's circumstances or temperament.
But to your credit, Paul is arguing against any arbitrariness to God's will with just ONE word:
Rom 9:19-21
20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'" 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
NIV
The Sovereign Potter has a purpose for every human being in life. These two verses strongly affirm what Paul wrote earlier about the four individuals/descendants of Abraham. Ishmael and Esau were not chosen by God to participate in the spiritual blessings of Abrahamic Covenant, whereas Issac and Jacob were! The latter two, therefore, were molded by God for noble [spiritual] ends; whereas the former two were molded for common (earthly) use. God had no salvific mercy and compassion on the first two, but reserved those for the latter two.
And even earlier in the passage, Paul said about Pharaoh:
Rom 9:-17
17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."
NIV
And God has every right to do these things because the entire human race justly and judicially deserves his wrath. So...by leaving the Ishmaels, the Esaus and Pharaohs of this world to be controlled and dominated by their own sinful natures and exceedingly wicked hearts is not unjust of God. (Did He not do precisely this with the fallen angels?) Nor is it unjust for God to save all his chosen "children of the promise", since Jesus bore their sins in his body thereby judicially satisfying his Father's inflexible justice and wrath.
Context really does count when interpreting.
Believe it or not, I actually walked into a synagogue many moons ago (like very many).
It was eerie and quizzical that for sure.
And then after 1/2 hour I walked out.
And that was it.
Absolutely correct sir.
[Rom 9:14 KJV]
What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Well you are fundamentally wrong, but you can call it whatever you want. If you are suggesting we are born saved and only fall away the first time we sin, then I'd have to say you're adding to scripture and can not show me where His word says that. You're just wrong on this matter, fundamentally.
No...Genez like you are totally helpless souls in desperate need of rescuing -- every bit as much as infants, babies and young children. But you cannot see this because both of you have been blinded by your own pride. You both think that you are something much greater than you are -- when each of us is nothing but a worm when compared to God Almighty.
HIH has his theology all backwards. He thinks we become sinners after we sin; however, this is false. We cannot not sin precisely because we ARE sinners by nature. A lion doesn't become a carnivore after his first kill; rather he made this first kill because by nature he IS a carnivore.
So it's not self righteousness fueling you to proclaim your belief is the truth over those arrogant Calvinist? Why do you get to declare them self righteous for, not what they actually think or believe, but in the name of what you say they think and believe? I'd also like to point out the fact you are also doing so self righteously. I'm just wondering why you get to accuse and name them self righteous and exclude yourself from being that as well?
Evidently not so helpless that we are incapable of first hearing and then executing the COMMAND to pick up the axe head that has been the object of a miracle by the Man of God aka the God Man.
[2Ki 6:4 KJV]
So he went with them. And when they came to Jordan, they cut down wood.
[2Ki 6:5 KJV]
But as one was felling a beam, the axe head fell into the water: and he cried, and said, Alas, master! for it was borrowed.
[2Ki 6:6 KJV]
And the man of God said, Where fell it? And he shewed him the place. And he cut down a stick, and cast [it] in thither; and the iron did swim.
[2Ki 6:7 KJV]
Therefore said he, Take [it] up to thee. And he put out his hand, and took it.
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Or.....you could hide/bury the talent and walk away if you so DESIRE/WILL it.
Mat 25:25
And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
And...not only that but the will is seated in the desperately wicked hearts of men. The will is in bondage to the sin nature and man's wicked and utterly deceitful heart.
Hey, Genez, I have a really, really tough question to ask you. So, put on your thinking cap if you by chance you have one: Who is the "us" and the "we" in this passage?
And if grace actually "enables" people, then explain how that grace isn't effectual. Since you don't believe in effectual grace, should you not have written that "God's grace has the potential to enable"..., since men are able to overcome God's grace?
Here let me chime in:
Because they REPEAT THE LIE(S) OF SATAN.
Over and over again.
Those very same lies which caused the Woman to fall. And those same lies that FAILED to cause Adam to fall.
Those very same lies that caused 1/3 of the angels to fall.
And those very same lies which even Michael was incapable of contending with.
[Jde 1:9 KJV]
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Yes, this is WAAAAAAYYYYY over your head because most Churches today are failing in their mandate to teach.
But.....I have already posted the requisite critical lecture studies and nobody (of the Calvinite ilk) CHOOSES to hear them.
Too bad so sad.
While I largely agree with this sentiment, I am open to more nuanced arguments regarding the relationship between the heart, mind, and will.
Oh yea.......the Calvinites always immediately condemn those "other guys" not in the Calvinite lottery winner club.
The Calvintes are a united front saying that they are all damned before they were ever born.
It's not Judaism as Judaism was while Israel was still being God's chosen nation.
Towards the end, the Pharisees, with their religious legalism, threw it to the ground,
much like the RCC did for the Church during the dark ages... Jesus in the Gospels was
actually presenting Judaism as it should have been. He was seen as a rabbi.
True Judaism will return at the Second Advent and continue through the Millennium.
Instead of sacrificing animals for sin, the sacrifices will be performed as memorials to
the Cross, much like we now see with the Church having communion for today.
Try getting a Calvinist to explain to you what Irresistible grace really means?
Explaining why the Cross was limited atonement.
To tell you how and why God chose you.
They are self-righteous because they push their beliefs on Christians without being able to explain adequately why what they claim is to be believed. If they can not understand what they demand, we are to understand? That, is self-righteousness. Its legalism.
We are not born saved, but we are born separated from God (spiritually dead) but with the ability to morally respond positively to the truth and power of the Gospel.
This is God's provision to all humanity, the ability to respond positively and willingly!!!