Timeline for following verses

[keepingthingsreal]

I don't have much time right now, so I will only address one of your comments and answer one of your questions, and I will get to the others some other day (Lord willing).

I have to give you credit that you make a good point, even though it has to be stretched IMO to come to that conclusion. I say this because you have to assume that it is not referring to a physical death. Did David taste of death? We know he definitely died.

I definitely would not say that it has to be stretched. Instead, as I am about to demonstrate, it is a very rational deduction.

Jhn 8:51
Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
Jhn 8:52
Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

Jesus said that if a man keeps his sayings, then he shall never see death, and his hearers understood this to mean that he shall never taste of death. Elsewhere, Jesus plainly told his disciples that would die physically. For example, please consider what Jesus said to Peter.

Jhn 21:18
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.
Jhn 21:19
This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.

Seeing how Jesus said that those who keep his sayings would never see or taste of death, and seeing how Peter kept Jesus' sayings and died physically, the type of death that Jesus was speaking about must be what the Bible calls the second death (Rev. 2:11, 20:6, 20:14, 21:8). We know, from scripture, that he that hath part in the first resurrection, as Peter most certainly will, on such the second death hath no power (Rev. 20:6), and this perfectly aligns itself with Jesus' words in relation to those who keep his sayings never tasting of death. With these things in mind, we can very rationally conclude that when Jesus spoke of those who would taste of death when he returns, he was speaking about unbelievers who will taste of the second death at the end of his yet future Millennial Reign (Rev. 20:14).

Did David taste of death? No, he did not, and he never will. He died physically, but this is not what Jesus was referring to when he spoke of those who will taste of death when he returns. Hopefully, you can see the rationale in what I have just stated.

 

[tttallison]

I don't have much time right now, so I will only address one of your comments and answer one of your questions, and I will get to the others some other day (Lord willing).I definitely would not say that it has to be stretched. Instead, as I am about to demonstrate, it is a very rational deduction.

Jhn 8:51
Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
Jhn 8:52
Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

Jesus said that if a man keeps his sayings, then he shall never see death, and his hearers understood this to mean that he shall never taste of death. Elsewhere, Jesus plainly told his disciples that would die physically. For example, please consider what Jesus said to Peter.

Jhn 21:18
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.
Jhn 21:19
This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.

Seeing how Jesus said that those who keep his sayings would never see or taste of death, and seeing how Peter kept Jesus' sayings and died physically, the type of death that Jesus was speaking about must be what the Bible calls the second death (Rev. 2:11, 20:6, 20:14, 21:8). We know, from scripture, that he that hath part in the first resurrection, as Peter most certainly will, on such the second death hath no power (Rev. 20:6), and this perfectly aligns itself with Jesus' words in relation to those who keep his sayings never tasting of death. With these things in mind, we can very rationally conclude that when Jesus spoke of those who would taste of death when he returns, he was speaking about unbelievers who will taste of the second death at the end of his yet future Millennial Reign (Rev. 20:14).

Did David taste of death? No, he did not, and he never will. He died physically, but this is not what Jesus was referring to when he spoke of those who will taste of death when he returns. Hopefully, you can see the rationale in what I have just stated.

You make a sound argument. But for you to be right the soul of Jesus had to die. Is this your stance?

 

[keepingthingsreal]

You make a sound argument. But for you to be right the soul of Jesus had to die. Is this your stance?

I would need to know what you mean by "the soul of Jesus had to die" in order to even attempt to answer your question. Can you tell me exactly what you are asking in clearer terms?

Also, I was off from work the last couple of days so I had more time to post than I normally do. I will give an answer to your question once I understand the question better, but that answer might not come for two or three days. If you are asking me what I think you might be asking me, then it will take me some time to compose an adequate scriptural response to it, so please be patient with me. Thank you.

 

[tttallison]

I would need to know what you mean by "the soul of Jesus had to die" in order to even attempt to answer your question. Can you tell me exactly what you are asking in clearer terms?

Also, I was off from work the last couple of days so I had more time to post than I normally do. I will give an answer to your question once I understand the question better, but that answer might not come for two or three days. If you are asking me what I think you might be asking me, then it will take me some time to compose an adequate scriptural response to it, so please be patient with me. Thank you.

I was referring to the second death in referencing the soul of Jesus.

If I understood you correctly you equated the taste of death to the second death.

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

If Jesus tasted death for every man does that mean Jesus died the second death?

I relate the soul to the second death according to the following verses.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Job 33:18 He keepeth back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing by the sword.

Job 33:22 Yea, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life to the destroyers.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

I was referring to the second death in referencing the soul of Jesus.

If I understood you correctly you equated the taste of death to the second death.

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

If Jesus tasted death for every man does that mean Jesus died the second death?

I relate the soul to the second death according to the following verses.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Job 33:18 He keepeth back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing by the sword.

Job 33:22 Yea, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life to the destroyers.

Thank you for clarifying. Actually, that is what I thought you were asking me, but I wanted to be sure. I will eventually give you a thought out and scriptural answer, but, because of my present time constraints, it will probably be two or three days before I will be able to do so. We can talk more then.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

You could present a biblical timeline of certain things from the Old Testament forward, and then we could delve into the specific aspects of individual events.

This is the approach that I would prefer to take, and especially because of my time restraints.

Would you be interested in the following discussion when I can find the time to engage in it?

Mat 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Here, Jesus said that when he comes in his glory (his second coming), he will sit upon the throne of his glory. He also said that all nations will be gathered before him after he returns, and that some will inherit the kingdom which was prepared for them from the foundation of the world. In other words, God's plan, from the foundation of the world, involves a coming and/or future kingdom.

Would you be willing to unravel exactly what this kingdom and the throne of Christ's glory are beginning with what the Old Testament has foretold in relation to the same?

As I said to you once before, we must have a working knowledge of what the Old Testament foretold in order to properly understand the New Testament, or in order to properly understand what the actual fulfillment of said foretellings or prophecies will actually be.

Please let me know. Thank you.

 

[tttallison]

This is the approach that I would prefer to take, and especially because of my time restraints.

Would you be interested in the following discussion when I can find the time to engage in it?

Mat 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Here, Jesus said that when he comes in his glory (his second coming), he will sit upon the throne of his glory. He also said that all nations will be gathered before him after he returns, and that some will inherit the kingdom which was prepared for them from the foundation of the world. In other words, God's plan, from the foundation of the world, involves a coming and/or future kingdom.

Would you be willing to unravel exactly what this kingdom and the throne of Christ's glory are beginning with what the Old Testament has foretold in relation to the same?

As I said to you once before, we must have a working knowledge of what the Old Testament foretold in order to properly understand the New Testament, or in order to properly understand what the actual fulfillment of said foretellings or prophecies will actually be.

Please let me know. Thank you.

Sounds like a good plan.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Sounds like a good plan.

I will begin to lay out a biblical timeline concerning Christ's coming kingdom, and we will see how things go from there. Apparently, having typed out my response, it is way too lengthy for one post due to character limitations, so I will need to chop it up into multiple posts. I am sorry about that, but I needed to start off with a lot of scriptural references in order to lay a solid foundation for this discussion.

In relation to his second coming, and he only comes twice (Heb. 9:27-28), Jesus said the following:

Mat 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Here, Jesus said three very important things which directly relate to our current discussion.

• When he comes in his glory at his second coming, Jesus will sit upon the throne of his glory, and I will happily identify exactly what throne that is in a future post.
• When he comes in his glory at his second coming, Jesus will come as the King.
• When he comes in his glory at his second coming, the righteous will inherit the kingdom which was prepared for them from the foundation of the world.

Elsewhere, Jesus said a fourth very important thing which directly relates to our current discussion.

Mat 5:33
Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
Mat 5:34
But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
Mat 5:35
Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

Jesus is the King (Matt. 25:34), or he is the great King (Matt. 5:35), and when he referred to Jerusalem as being the city of the great King, he undoubtedly had the following in mind.

Psa 48:2
Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.

With these things in mind, I will add this fourth very important thing that Jesus said which directly relates to our current discussion.

• When Jesus comes in his glory (Matt. 25:31) at his second coming, or when he returns as the King (Matt. 25:34), or when he returns as the great King (Matt. 5:35), he will sit upon the throne of his glory (Matt. 25:31), and he will reign over this earth from Mount Zion (Psa. 48:2), which is in Jerusalem, which is the city of the great King (Matt. 5:35), and this is what has long been prophesied.

Isa 2:1
The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
Isa 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Isa 2:3
And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Isa 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

In a very similar prophecy, the prophet Micah provided us with a little more important information.

Mic 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
Mic 4:2
And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Mic 4:3
And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Mic 4:4
But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.
Mic 4:5
For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.
Mic 4:6
In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted;
Mic 4:7
And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.
Mic 4:8
And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.

By coupling these two very similar prophecies from Isaiah and Micah together, we come to understand the following:

In the last days, the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills, and in this mountain of the LORD, and from this house of the God of Jacob, or from Mount Zion, which is in Jerusalem, shall the Lord Jesus Christ reign at his second coming. Yes, at Christ’s second coming, it, the first dominion (Micah 4:8), shall come to Mount Zion in Jerusalem, or the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.

Please keep reading in my next post.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Did you ever notice what the last question was that Jesus’ disciples asked him before he ascended back to heaven?

Act 1:1
The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
Act 1:2
Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Act 1:3
To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
Act 1:4
And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Act 1:5
For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Act 1:6
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7
And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Act 1:8
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Act 1:9
And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

After his passion, Jesus showed himself alive to his disciples for 40 days while speaking to them of things pertaining to the kingdom of God. At the end of this 40-day teaching on the kingdom of God, and do not forget that Jesus taught them many things about the kingdom of God prior to his crucifixion as well, his disciples asked him “Will you at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?”

Now, why do you suppose they asked him that question?

They asked him that question because he had undoubtedly told them over the course of those 40 days exactly what the prophet Micah had foretold of in what we just read a moment ago.

Mic 4:7
And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.
Mic 4:8
And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.

This what the people of Jesus’ day were looking for, and this precisely what we are supposed to be looking for as well. Please pay close attention to the reason why Jesus began the following parable in the way that he did.

Luk 19:11
And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
Luk 19:12
He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
Luk 19:13
And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
Luk 19:14
But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
Luk 19:15
And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
Luk 19:16
Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
Luk 19:17
And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
Luk 19:18
And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
Luk 19:19
And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
Luk 19:20
And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
Luk 19:21
For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
Luk 19:22
And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
Luk 19:23
Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
Luk 19:24
And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
Luk 19:25
(And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
Luk 19:26
For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
Luk 19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Why did Jesus speak this parable? He spoke it because he was nigh or near to Jerusalem, and because the people of his day thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. The people of Jesus’ day were all looking for the right thing, the coming kingdom of God, but their timing was off. Whereas they mistakenly thought that the kingdom of God would appear at Christ’s first coming, Jesus had to inform them that it would not appear until his second coming. For this reason, he likened himself to a certain nobleman who went into a far country, or to a nobleman who travelled from heaven to this earth, to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. He went on to explain to his servants that they needed to occupy until he comes, or that they needed to do something with the talents which he had given them while awaiting his second coming, because it was not going to be until when he was returned that he was going to receive the kingdom. Those who traded with his money, figuratively speaking, or those who used the talents which they were given by Jesus to potentially save, disciple, or help others, or to give him back his initial investment with usury or interest, were not only called good servants, but they were also rewarded with something.

What was their reward? Was it eternity in heaven, as so many people believe today? No, it was not. Instead, they were rewarded with rule over cities because when Jesus returns, he is returning to establish the kingdom of God right here on earth, and his good and faithful servants will reign with him right here on this earth. Hear the song of the redeemed in heaven which they are singing to Jesus.

Rev 5:9
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Nowhere does the Bible teach that heaven is the final inheritance for Christians. Sure, the Christian’s inheritance is laid up for them there, or it is reserved for them there, but when Jesus returns, the meek shall inherit the earth, as joint-heirs with Christ (Rom. 8:17), as both the psalmist (Psa. 37:11) and Christ himself taught (Matt. 5:5).

Please keep reading in my next post.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

When it comes to Christ not only being Israel’s King, but also to him being rejected as Israel’s King, both began long before his incarnation, or long before the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us (John 1:14).

1Sa 8:4
Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah,
1Sa 8:5
And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.
1Sa 8:6
But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.
1Sa 8:7
And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

Here, the children of Israel rejected the LORD or the pre-incarnate Christ as being their King because they did not want him to reign over them. Where have we heard this before? We heard it in Jesus’ parable that we looked at earlier.

Luk 19:14
But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

Luk 19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

The prophet Isaiah saw Christ the King in heaven in his day.

Isa 6:1
In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
Isa 6:2
Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
Isa 6:3
And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
Isa 6:4
And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.
Isa 6:5
Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.
Isa 6:6
Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:
Isa 6:7
And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.
Isa 6:8
Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
Isa 6:9
And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
Isa 6:10
Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

In the New Testament, the Apostle John confirmed that this King, the LORD of hosts who the prophet Isaiah saw was indeed the pre-incarnate Christ.

Jhn 12:37
But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
Jhn 12:38
That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Jhn 12:39
Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
Jhn 12:40
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
Jhn 12:41
These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

Elsewhere, the same Isaiah had this to say about this same King of Israel, or about this same LORD of hosts, or about this same pre-incarnate Christ.

Isa 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

We know, via New Testament revelation, exactly who this first and the last is, and it is none other than Jesus Christ (Rev. 1:10-11, 17:18, 2:8, 22:12-13).

Elsewhere in scripture, this same exact LORD of hosts, or this same exact pre-incarnate Christ, is revealed as being the King of glory.

Psa 24:7
Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
Psa 24:8
Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.
Psa 24:9
Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
Psa 24:10
Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.

The pre-incarnate Christ also revealed himself as the King of Israel through the prophet Zephaniah.

Zep 3:15
The LORD hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, even the LORD, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.

Why do you suppose that the Magi referred to Jesus as being the King of the Jews when they came to seek him?

Mat 2:1
Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
Mat 2:2
Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

They referred to him as being the King of the Jews because they understood the things that I am presently sharing here.

Why do you suppose that Nathanael called Jesus the King of Israel when he first encountered him?

Jhn 1:47
Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
Jhn 1:48
Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
Jhn 1:49
Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Nathanael called Jesus the King of Israel because he understood the things that I am presently sharing here.

Why do you suppose that Pontius Pilate asked Jesus if he was the King of the Jews, only to have it confirmed by Christ himself, and why do you suppose that he wrote a title, and put it on the cross, which said JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS?

Mar 15:2
And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto him, Thou sayest it.

Jhn 19:19
And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Jhn 19:20
This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
19:21
Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.
Jhn 19:22
Pilate answered, What I have written I have written.

Pilate asked it, Jesus confirmed it, and Pilate wrote it, and placed it on Jesus’ cross because Jesus is the King of the Jews; even as I am currently seeking to explain.

Please keep reading in my next post.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Why do you suppose that John the Baptist, the forerunner of Jesus Christ, began his public ministry by telling people to repent because the kingdom of heaven is at hand?

Mat 3:1
In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
Mat 3:2
And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Why do you suppose that Jesus began his public ministry by telling people to repent because the kingdom of heaven is at hand?

Mat 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Why did Jesus commission the twelve apostles to tell people that the kingdom of heaven is at hand?

Mat 10:5
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7
And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Why did Jesus commission the seventy to say unto the people the kingdom of God is come nigh or near to you?

Luk 10:1
After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.
Luk 10:2
Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.
Luk 10:3
Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
Luk 10:4
Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
Luk 10:5
And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
Luk 10:6
And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.
Luk 10:7
And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.
Luk 10:8
And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
Luk 10:9
And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
Luk 10:10
But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,
Luk 10:11
Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

They all told the people the same things concerning the coming kingdom of heaven, or the same things concerning the coming kingdom of God because, as I have already addressed, at Jesus' second coming, the righteous will inherit this kingdom which was prepared for them from the foundation of the world (Matt. 25:31-34). Furthermore, it is precisely this kingdom which Jesus instructed his disciples to pray would come to this earth.

Mat 6:9
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Mat 6:11
Give us this day our daily bread.
Mat 6:12
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
Mat 6:13
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Are you in agreement with me thus far? If not, then please raise your objections now. If you are in agreement, then I will proceed along these same lines in a future post when I have the time to do so while specifically addressing, from scripture, some of the things which will transpire when the kingdom of God comes or when Christ ushers in his Millennial Reign here on earth.

P.S.

Due to character limitations, this is probably not a good place to try and have this discussion. I say that because I want you to base your beliefs on the scriptures, and not on my opinions, and it takes a lot of characters to present a solid biblical argument.

 

[Aaron56]

The word is clearly David and not Jesus. What is your reasoning for not accepting what it says. David's kingdom was an earthly kingdom. Jesus Kingdom is not of this world.

So where it reads "The scepter will not pass from Judah" must Judah remain alive for that to be true or can one of the line of Judah hold the scepter?

 

[Aaron56]

I went back to read the whole thread. You don't need my input. Please carry on.

 

[tttallison]

I will begin to lay out a biblical timeline concerning Christ's coming kingdom, and we will see how things go from there. Apparently, having typed out my response, it is way too lengthy for one post due to character limitations, so I will need to chop it up into multiple posts. I am sorry about that, but I needed to start off with a lot of scriptural references in order to lay a solid foundation for this discussion.

In relation to his second coming, and he only comes twice (Heb. 9:27-28), Jesus said the following:

Mat 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Here, Jesus said three very important things which directly relate to our current discussion.

• When he comes in his glory at his second coming, Jesus will sit upon the throne of his glory, and I will happily identify exactly what throne that is in a future post.
• When he comes in his glory at his second coming, Jesus will come as the King.
• When he comes in his glory at his second coming, the righteous will inherit the kingdom which was prepared for them from the foundation of the world.

Elsewhere, Jesus said a fourth very important thing which directly relates to our current discussion.

Mat 5:33
Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
Mat 5:34
But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
Mat 5:35
Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

Jesus is the King (Matt. 25:34), or he is the great King (Matt. 5:35), and when he referred to Jerusalem as being the city of the great King, he undoubtedly had the following in mind.

Psa 48:2
Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.

With these things in mind, I will add this fourth very important thing that Jesus said which directly relates to our current discussion.

• When Jesus comes in his glory (Matt. 25:31) at his second coming, or when he returns as the King (Matt. 25:34), or when he returns as the great King (Matt. 5:35), he will sit upon the throne of his glory (Matt. 25:31), and he will reign over this earth from Mount Zion (Psa. 48:2), which is in Jerusalem, which is the city of the great King (Matt. 5:35), and this is what has long been prophesied.

Isa 2:1
The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
Isa 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Isa 2:3
And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Isa 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

In a very similar prophecy, the prophet Micah provided us with a little more important information.

Mic 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
Mic 4:2
And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Mic 4:3
And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Mic 4:4
But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.
Mic 4:5
For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.
Mic 4:6
In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted;
Mic 4:7
And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.
Mic 4:8
And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.

By coupling these two very similar prophecies from Isaiah and Micah together, we come to understand the following:

In the last days, the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills, and in this mountain of the LORD, and from this house of the God of Jacob, or from Mount Zion, which is in Jerusalem, shall the Lord Jesus Christ reign at his second coming. Yes, at Christ’s second coming, it, the first dominion (Micah 4:8), shall come to Mount Zion in Jerusalem, or the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.

Please keep reading in my next post.

I agree with all these verses, but on a few occasions I believe we might disagree on the interpretation. I am kind of overwhelmed with all the verses and questions.

I do not question the kingship of my Lord. There is more I don't know than do know. For instance, what was the purpose of Jesus preaching to the dead from Noah's day? Who were those that were resurrected with Christ? Why are the 144,000 called the firstfruits?

I fear changing the words of the bible just because I don't understand. If it says David, I trust it means David. If you could show me scripture that explains why David was used instead of the seed of David, or offspring of David, or some other reason for using David's name that would help.

Is it your understanding that all nations refers to the jews in those nations?

Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: G1484 and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Second coming is not a biblical term. I believe the proper term might be coming again. If we use the term “second coming,” what would we use for the first and second resurrection? Would we refer to them as the third coming, and perhaps the fourth? (I will have to do more explaining on this.

It has always been my opinion that miḡdal-ʿēḏer (Tower of the Flock) was the birthplace of Christ. Tradition has it as the place where the Passover Lambs were inspected for blemishes, and their legs wrapped in swaddling cloth to protect them from injury. Luk 2:12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. The shepherds had no problem interpreting the sign.

Gen 35:21 And Israel journeyed, and spread his tent beyond the tower of Edar. H4029

Mic 4:8 And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.

Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

 

[tttallison]

I will begin to lay out a biblical timeline concerning Christ's coming kingdom, and we will see how things go from there. Apparently, having typed out my response, it is way too lengthy for one post due to character limitations, so I will need to chop it up into multiple posts. I am sorry about that, but I needed to start off with a lot of scriptural references in order to lay a solid foundation for this discussion.

In relation to his second coming, and he only comes twice (Heb. 9:27-28), Jesus said the following:

Mat 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Here, Jesus said three very important things which directly relate to our current discussion.

• When he comes in his glory at his second coming, Jesus will sit upon the throne of his glory, and I will happily identify exactly what throne that is in a future post.
• When he comes in his glory at his second coming, Jesus will come as the King.
• When he comes in his glory at his second coming, the righteous will inherit the kingdom which was prepared for them from the foundation of the world.

Elsewhere, Jesus said a fourth very important thing which directly relates to our current discussion.

Mat 5:33
Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
Mat 5:34
But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
Mat 5:35
Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

Jesus is the King (Matt. 25:34), or he is the great King (Matt. 5:35), and when he referred to Jerusalem as being the city of the great King, he undoubtedly had the following in mind.

Psa 48:2
Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.

With these things in mind, I will add this fourth very important thing that Jesus said which directly relates to our current discussion.

• When Jesus comes in his glory (Matt. 25:31) at his second coming, or when he returns as the King (Matt. 25:34), or when he returns as the great King (Matt. 5:35), he will sit upon the throne of his glory (Matt. 25:31), and he will reign over this earth from Mount Zion (Psa. 48:2), which is in Jerusalem, which is the city of the great King (Matt. 5:35), and this is what has long been prophesied.

Isa 2:1
The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
Isa 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Isa 2:3
And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Isa 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

In a very similar prophecy, the prophet Micah provided us with a little more important information.

Mic 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
Mic 4:2
And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Mic 4:3
And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Mic 4:4
But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.
Mic 4:5
For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.
Mic 4:6
In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted;
Mic 4:7
And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.
Mic 4:8
And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.

By coupling these two very similar prophecies from Isaiah and Micah together, we come to understand the following:

In the last days, the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills, and in this mountain of the LORD, and from this house of the God of Jacob, or from Mount Zion, which is in Jerusalem, shall the Lord Jesus Christ reign at his second coming. Yes, at Christ’s second coming, it, the first dominion (Micah 4:8), shall come to Mount Zion in Jerusalem, or the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.

Please keep reading in my next post.

It was a mistake for me to say that the second coming is not a biblical term. I retract that statement.

In three of the Gospels, Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, we have the return of Christ. In 1 Thessalonians 4 and 1 Corinthians 15 we see again the return of Christ. In Revelation 19 there is a resurrection and a marriage. Are all six of these the same event.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

It was a mistake for me to say that the second coming is not a biblical term. I retract that statement.

In three of the Gospels, Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, we have the return of Christ. In 1 Thessalonians 4 and 1 Corinthians 15 we see again the return of Christ. In Revelation 19 there is a resurrection and a marriage. Are all six of these the same event.

Yes, they are the same event.

As far as Christ's "second coming" is concerned, there is this to consider:

Heb 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

At his first coming or appearance, Christ died to bear the sins of many. At his second coming or appearance, he will consummate salvation for the saints of God which includes a bodily resurrection.

 

[tttallison]

Yes, they are the same event.

As far as Christ's "second coming" is concerned, there is this to consider:

Heb 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

At his first coming or appearance, Christ died to bear the sins of many. At his second coming or appearance, he will consummate salvation for the saints of God which includes a bodily resurrection.

Thank you. I can see that we are more in agreement than not.

I too believe that the first five are all the same. The resurrection of Revelation 19 may or may not be the same, depending on whether Christ came in the first century a second time.

It is hard for me to skip over "this generation" and "shortly come to pass". We know that the millennium has not occurred, therefore Revelation 19 has not taken place.

Even if you consider that generation meant age, didn't the age of the Law end. Jesus Had not yet died for our sins when he said "this generation." These words were spoken to the Jews. We are no longer in the age of the Jews, but rather the time of the Gentiles. I do not see where it says that Jesus was speaking to Gentiles. Jesus called the Gentiles dogs. I do not deny that salvation was opened to the Gentiles, and that it was foreordained. God is no respecter of persons. Jesus was fulfilling prophecy. The Jewish nation has been set aside for a later date. When Jesus said to his disciples that this generation would not pass away until all be fulfilled, how could they consider that Jesus meant 2,000 years?

I have not just skipped over all your verses, I have examined them, with the exception of the two last posts which I haven't gotten too. It is hard for me to contain so many varied thoughts at one time. I would prefer to examine single thoughts at a time.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

The resurrection of Revelation 19 may or may not be the same, depending on whether Christ came in the first century a second time.

I fully believe that I could present you with irrefutable evidence from scripture that Revelation chapter 19 has not occurred yet. It would take me some time to compose that post, but it would not need to be anywhere as long as the monstrous post that I made yesterday. I am rather busy at the moment in that I am trying to juggle a few important things at once, but I will try my best to make that post sometime over the next day or two for your consideration.

 

[tttallison]

I fully believe that I could present you with irrefutable evidence from scripture that Revelation chapter 19 has not occurred yet. It would take me some time to compose that post, but it would not need to be anywhere as long as the monstrous post that I made yesterday. I am rather busy at the moment in that I am trying to juggle a few important things at once, but I will try my best to make that post sometime over the next day or two for your consideration.

I am fully convinced that Revelation 19 has not occurred. Perhaps I wasn't very clear. It is the other 5 resurrections that are brought into question whether they have already occurred or not.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

I am fully convinced that Revelation 19 has not occurred. Perhaps I wasn't very clear. It is the other 5 resurrections that are brought into question whether they have already occurred or not.

Well, let's just quickly examine one of them. You mentioned 1 Thessalonians 4. Is it safe to assume that you are referring to these verses?

1Th 4:13
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18
Wherefore comfort one another with these words.