Applying God's Word to Politics

[GWH]

Indeed brother. What can i say? I guess i won?

We have both won heaven, but it remains to be seen who has the greater capacity for enjoying God's blessings, because you seem to demean the earthly ones including government to the extent it accords with NT morality.

I perceive earthly experience as a history-long "king of the hill" (KOTH) war or struggle against both sinful people and natural disasters, and IMO the recent election was a battle won over the evil forces of atheism/tyranny/communism/fascism/globalism.

We are imperfect, but the leaven/light/salt/truth/kingdom of God/GW=HS has made us better than what we would be without such blessings and morally better than the enemy servants of Satan, even though we should love them too. God has always employed human agency to accomplish His POS.

BTW, some of the goals espoused by leftists are good, but good ends do not justify evil means, especially because utopia (the KOG) will never be attained in this earthly realm, especially by atheists.

 

[Eli1]

We have both won heaven, but it remains to be seen who has the greater capacity for enjoying God's blessings, because you seem to demean the earthly ones including government to the extent it accords with NT morality.

I perceive earthly experience as a history-long "king of the hill" (KOTH) war or struggle against both sinful people and natural disasters, and IMO the recent election was a battle won over the evil forces of atheism/tyranny/communism/fascism/globalism.

We are imperfect, but the leaven/light/salt/truth/kingdom of God/GW=HS has made us better than what we would be without such blessings and morally better than the enemy servants of Satan, even though we should love them too. God has always employed human agency to accomplish His POS.

BTW, some of the goals espoused by leftists are good, but good ends do not justify evil means, especially because utopia (the KOG) will never be attained in this earthly realm, especially by atheists.

I agree with you again brother and i also assess someone's gratefulness level on anonymous Internet forums with 100% accuracy.
I'm very good at it.
I didn't want this gift, but i got it.

 

[GWH]

I agree with you again brother and i also assess someone's gratefulness level on anonymous Internet forums with 100% accuracy.
I'm very good at it.
I didn't want this gift, but i got it.

Well, when making assessments/discernments, I hope we agree that we should begin by assessing ourselves, but after doing that I have not discerned whether you realize the kingdom of God is a spiritual reality that leavens earthly entities such as family, church and politics/government, although imperfectly. Do you agree?

 

[Eli1]

Well, when making assessments/discernments, I hope we agree that we should begin by assessing ourselves, but after doing that I have not discerned whether you realize the kingdom of God is a spiritual reality that leavens earthly entities such as family, church and politics/government, although imperfectly. Do you agree?

Yes of course i agree with this, but in the spirit of self-assessment why can't you be at peace and happy when you find one point of agreement with another person?
I mean you'd be lucky to find 30% or even 50% agreement between people so why not take the good part and ignore/forgive the bad?
For example, i agree in about 50% of what you've said so far all over the forum. So that's like hitting the lottery in my view. We should rejoice even when we find one single small thing to agree on.
But you will never have 100% agreement. Ever.
Could it be that perhaps because you were a sargent you require 100% agreement since in the army you give away your rights and free-will?

In plain English this means: Why do you want to convince me that the Republican party is going to bring the Kingdom of God on Earth since you lack a lot of self-awareness on this topic and are unable to go beyond your comfort zone?
Why not just be happy with the things we agree on?
Such as our support for RFK Jr, while coming at it from different angles?

 

[posthuman]

Applying Christian beliefs to politics has been problematic ever since Peter told the Sanhedrin "We must obey God rather than men!" (Acts 5:29)

How should we do this in the current political situation to issues such as national borders, abortion, globalism and lawfare?

these are secular, not spiritual topics.

a good soldier of Christ does not entangle himself in civilian affairs.

the Biblical approach to these things is to not involve yourself in them, in fact to distance your life and conversation from them as much as possible.

let your identity be in Christ, in kindness and gentleness, in love for others and service to the foreigner, the widow, those rejected and alienated from society. in humility and in forgiveness.
not in vain, worldly power struggles and meaningless animosity among neighbors, or endless seeking after wealth.

 

[GWH]

Yes of course i agree with this, but in the spirit of self-assessment why can't you be at peace and happy when you find one point of agreement with another person?
I mean you'd be lucky to find 30% or even 50% agreement between people so why not take the good part and ignore/forgive the bad?
For example, i agree in about 50% of what you've said so far all over the forum. So that's like hitting the lottery in my view. We should rejoice even when we find one single small thing to agree on.
But you will never have 100% agreement. Ever.
Could it be that perhaps because you were a sargent you require 100% agreement since in the army you give away your rights and free-will?

In plain English this means: Why do you want to convince me that the Republican party is going to bring the Kingdom of God on Earth since you lack a lot of self-awareness on this topic and are unable to go beyond your comfort zone?
Why not just be happy with the things we agree on?
Such as our support for RFK Jr, while coming at it from different angles?

You never go back for seconds on Thanksgiving?

As a chaplain I could require NO agreement, although I suppose army regs required cooperation by my CA.

Re the Pub party: I believe it manifested much more leavening by the kingdom of God/Christians than did the Dems, but feel free to try to convince me otherwise if you want.

Not sure why you say I lack self-awareness and cannot go beyond my comfort zone, so I think you are projecting yourself onto me.

BTW, even though you begin with agreement, your ending did not make me think you realize the kingdom of God is a spiritual reality that leavens earthly entities such as family, church and politics/government, although imperfectly.

 

[Eli1]

You never go back for seconds on Thanksgiving?

I don't understand what this means.

As a chaplain I could require NO agreement, although I suppose army regs required cooperation by my CA.

So which choice do you want to apply in this topic?

Re the Pub party: I believe it manifested much more leavening by the kingdom of God/Christians than did the Dems, but feel free to try to convince me otherwise if you want.

Not sure why you say I lack self-awareness and cannot go beyond my comfort zone, so I think you are projecting yourself onto me.

BTW, even though you begin with agreement, your ending did not make me think you realize the kingdom of God is a spiritual reality that leavens earthly entities such as family, church and politics/government, although imperfectly.

Let's start with the word "leavening". Why are you using such a vague word to describe such a precise process you are trying to convey?
Also how do you even apply the concept of "projection" when you are unable to criticize your own team when i mentioned to you that the conservatives support guns which are used to kill adult who are conscious? And then you give me an answer about the gun being a "tool" which is text-book programed answer based on when you're invested into an ideology?
Do you even realize this?

Also if you aren't convinced that that i agree with you that the Kingdom of God is a spiritual reality then this is a you problem, not a me problem.
Or, try asking better questions or even better .. become more self-aware about your ideology which you are trying to sell to me as a package bundled with the Kingdom of God.

Finally, what do you think you will gain or lose if you are convinced that political parties in years 2024 in some random part of the globe are not related to the Kingdom of God?

 

[GWH]

I don't understand what this means.


So which choice do you want to apply in this topic?



Let's start with the word "leavening". Why are you using such a vague word to describe such a precise process you are trying to convey?
Also how do you even apply the concept of "projection" when you are unable to criticize your own team when i mentioned to you that the conservatives support guns which are used to kill adult who are conscious? And then you give me an answer about the gun being a "tool" which is text-book programed answer based on when you're invested into an ideology?
Do you even realize this?

Also if you aren't convinced that that i agree with you that the Kingdom of God is a spiritual reality then this is a you problem, not a me problem.
Or, try asking better questions or even better .. become more self-aware about your ideology which you are trying to sell to me as a package bundled with the Kingdom of God.

Finally, what do you think you will gain or lose if you are convinced that political parties in years 2024 in some random part of the globe are not related to the Kingdom of God?

I asked whether you never go back for seconds on Thanksgiving because you were making a big deal about "why can't you be at peace and happy when you find one point of agreement with another person? I mean you'd be lucky to find 30% or even 50% agreement between people so why not take the good part and ignore/forgive the bad? For example, i agree in about 50% of what you've said so far all over the forum. So that's like hitting the lottery in my view. We should rejoice even when we find one single small thing to agree on."

In this topic I can require neither agreement nor disagreement.

Re the word "leavening". I use it in a manner opposite of the way Paul employs it in 1CR 5:6-8 and Jesus uses it in MT 16:6&16, because I prefer yeast bread to the unleavened wafers served in communion services.

When you mentioned that conservatives support the Second Amendment, but guns are used to kill people, I thought I refuted that remark by pointing out that many inventions can be used for either good or evil purposes, which is a text-book answer because it is TRUE. Do you realize this truth?

I said I wasn't convinced you agree that the Kingdom of God is a spiritual reality, because you did not say so until just now, so you made it my problem. And even now you ask whether I am trying to sell you a package bundled with the KOG as though you still do not agree it is a spiritual reality that leavens earthly entities such as family, church and politics/government, although imperfectly.

Re "what do you think you will gain or lose if you are convinced that political parties in years 2024 in some random part of the globe are not related to the Kingdom of God?": Huh? I am talking about the MAGA policies in this part of the globe being closer to Christian values than the atheist and dictatorial policies of the Dems who persecute the Pubs who oppose them with lawfare in an effort to bankrupt and imprison them. Isn't that obvious?!

 

[Eli1]

I asked whether you never go back for seconds on Thanksgiving because you were making a big deal about "why can't you be at peace and happy when you find one point of agreement with another person? I mean you'd be lucky to find 30% or even 50% agreement between people so why not take the good part and ignore/forgive the bad? For example, i agree in about 50% of what you've said so far all over the forum. So that's like hitting the lottery in my view. We should rejoice even when we find one single small thing to agree on."

I still don’t understand what this thanksgiving idiom means in relation to my comment and since you seem to lack self-awareness, I will try to point it out to you.
Since you are on an international forum with different audiences from different cultures, it would be best if you try to avoid cultural idioms which may not be understood by different audiences.
Or, you can try to explain them. There’s also that option.

In this topic I can require neither agreement nor disagreement.

So what are you even arguing then? Do you want to discuss for the sake of discussion then?
I like that, where I come from we discuss things for hours, days or months while having coffee.

When you mentioned that conservatives support the Second Amendment, but guns are used to kill people, I thought I refuted that remark by pointing out that many inventions can be used for either good or evil purposes, which is a text-book answer because it is TRUE. Do you realize this truth?

Oh wow, you really are clueless eh? Lol
What’s the difference between the liberals killing babies with a tool and conservatives killing adults with a tool?

Re the word "leavening". I use it in a manner opposite of the way Paul employs it in 1CR 5:6-8 and Jesus uses it in MT 16:6&16, because I prefer yeast bread to the unleavened wafers served in communion services.

Is this informing me of your dietary restrictions or are you trying to say something else in relation to this topic? I will assume it's about your dietary restrictions.

I said I wasn't convinced you agree that the Kingdom of God is a spiritual reality, because you did not say so until just now, so you made it my problem. And even now you ask whether I am trying to sell you a package bundled with the KOG as though you still do not agree it is a spiritual reality that leavens earthly entities such as family, church and politics/government, although imperfectly.

What I don’t agree with is your attempt to package the republican party with the Kingdom of God, unless you can clear this specifically right here. And then we might both agree and win a plate of hot wings and beer for this achievement.

Re "what do you think you will gain or lose if you are convinced that political parties in years 2024 in some random part of the globe are not related to the Kingdom of God?": Huh? I am talking about the MAGA policies in this part of the globe being closer to Christian values than the atheist and dictatorial policies of the Dems who persecute the Pubs who oppose them with lawfare in an effort to bankrupt and imprison them. Isn't that obvious?!

Hahaha
Okay, so you still are unable to leave your bubble eh? You hold it dearly in your arms and you think you might run out of oxygen if you let go of the Republican party emotional investment eh?

 

[GWH]

I guess I lack YOU-awareness, but in the U.S. Thanksgiving is often celebrated by eating a big meal, usually with turkey as the main course, and people typically go back for more or seconds. What country do you live in?

I am NOT arguing, but rather patiently answering your questions and responding to your disagreements

I think YOU are the clueless one, because you don't see that guns may be used to protect both babies and adults from being killed.

I guess you are also clueless that yeast leavening bread is a metaphor for the KOG/Christians leavening earthly entities such as family, church and politics/government, although imperfectly. Would the metaphors of salt and light (MT 5:13-16) be more clear?

I made it clear that I package no party with the KOG, but rather discern that the MAGA policies are closer to Christian values than the atheist and dictatorial policies of the Dems who persecute the Pubs who oppose them with lawfare in an effort to bankrupt and imprison them. If you are not from the U.S. you may not be aware of that fact.

 

[Eli1]

I made it clear that I package no party with the KOG, but rather discern that the MAGA policies are closer to Christian values than the atheist and dictatorial policies of the Dems who persecute the Pubs who oppose them with lawfare in an effort to bankrupt and imprison them. If you are not from the U.S. you may not be aware of that fact.

All right so now we're getting somewhere.
If you think that MAGA policies are somewhat closer to Christian values or closer to the Kingdom of God then i 100% disagree with you on this topic.
You now have a choice.
You can be at peace with this disagreement while we have agreement on other topics, or you can continue to say comments which lack self-awareness since you are unable to even criticize your own idea.

I am NOT arguing, but rather patiently answering your questions and responding to your disagreements

Same here. I am responding to your disagreements as well. This question originated, if you remember from your need to have 100% agreement and you said that you have two personality choices. As a chaplain you said you need no agreement but as an army guy you need some agreement. So we are here now.

I guess I lack YOU-awareness, but in the U.S. Thanksgiving is often celebrated by eating a big meal, usually with turkey as the main course, and people typically go back for more or seconds. What country do you live in?

I wasn't born in US, i told you this two times since you've been here in this forum.
I still don't understand what this idiom means in relation to my comment.

I think YOU are the clueless one, because you don't see that guns may be used to protect both babies and adults from being killed.

Really? This is your response? You're saying that the "tools" are used for good? Yes i agree. This is why assisted suicide for a person who's in pain is also good. They use tools such as nitrogen chambers.
The left supports this.

I guess you are also clueless that yeast leavening bread is a metaphor for the KOG/Christians leavening earthly entities such as family, church and politics/government, although imperfectly. Would the metaphors of salt and light (MT 5:13-16) be more clear?

And since you are the one who confuses MAGA with the Kingdom of God you lack self-awareness to even understand that this is about leading by example as i told you two times ago before, and NOT about following a political party in some random part of history.
This is also what Aaron tried to tell you but since you're so emotionally invested in MAGA it doesn't register because your firewall in your mind blocks it.

 

[Eli1]

I think YOU are the clueless one, because you don't see that guns may be used to protect both babies and adults from being killed.

I guess your other "good" deed here is that you can kill the doctor with your gun to protect the baby right?

 

[GWH]

All right so now we're getting somewhere.
If you think that MAGA policies are somewhat closer to Christian values or closer to the Kingdom of God then i 100% disagree with you on this topic.
You now have a choice.
You can be at peace with this disagreement while we have agreement on other topics, or you can continue to say comments which lack self-awareness since you are unable to even criticize your own idea.




Same here. I am responding to your disagreements as well. This question originated, if you remember from your need to have 100% agreement and you said that you have two personality choices. As a chaplain you said you need no agreement but as an army guy you need some agreement. So we are here now.



I wasn't born in US, i told you this two times since you've been here in this forum.
I still don't understand what this idiom means in relation to my comment.



Really? This is your response? You're saying that the "tools" are used for good? Yes i agree. This is why assisted suicide for a person who's in pIain is also good. They use tools such as nitrogen chambers.
The left supports this.



And since you are the one who confuses MAGA with the Kingdom of God you lack self-awareness to even understand that this is about leading by example as i told you two times ago before, and NOT about following a political party in some random part of history.
This is also what Aaron tried to tell you but since you're so emotionally invested in MAGA it doesn't register because your firewall in your mind blocks it.

I am glad you think we are getting somewhere., because I lack awareness of what your disagreement regarding the MAGA policies being somewhat closer to Christian values than those of the Dems in this recent election. I am at peace, but I am left wondering why you disagree. IOW, I am not even aware that YOU have even criticized my idea. All you say is that you disagree.

I am glad that neither of us is arguing but both of us are patiently responding, and no, I do not remember me saying that I need 100% agreement, so please quote that. Nor did I say that "as a chaplain I need no agreement but as an army guy I need some agreement, so please provide that quote, too.

I understand that you were not born in the U.S., so you wethat in the U.S. Thanksgiving is often celebrated by eating a big meal with some people going back for seconds, so the "idiom" or comparison is that is why I referred to trying for more agreement.

Yes, I am saying that the guns carried by the men in my army unit were used for the good purpose of protecting babies, adults and doctors from being murdered. This is called peacemaking, which is an application of GW to politics that is blessed by Jesus. I do not understand what this has to do with "assisted suicide".

I did not see you answer my question, "Would the metaphors of salt and light (MT 5:13-16) be more clear than the metaphor about yeast leavening bread in order to illustrate how the KOG/Christians leaven or provide salt and light to earthly entities such as family, church and politics/government, although imperfectly?"

Again, I do NOT confuse MAGA with the Kingdom of God, but I discern that its policies are more in line with NT morality than those of the Dems, and I think your accusation re self-awareness is condemned by Jesus in MT 7:1-5.

 

[Aaron56]

I’m now here for the hot wings and beer.

 

[GWH]

I’m now here for the hot wings and beer.

I prefer lemon-pepper wings and root beer, thank you.

 

[Eli1]

I am glad you think we are getting somewhere., because I lack awareness of what your disagreement regarding the MAGA policies being somewhat closer to Christian values than those of the Dems in this recent election. I am at peace, but I am left wondering why you disagree. IOW, I am not even aware that YOU have even criticized my idea. All you say is that you disagree.

The lack of awareness is in the fact that you think that MAGA aligns with The Kingdom of God.
This is why you can’t process any new information when I or Aaron said very clearly that Jesus did not come here to establish a new government.

I am glad that neither of us is arguing but both of us are patiently responding, and no, I do not remember me saying that I need 100% agreement, so please quote that. Nor did I say that "as a chaplain I need no agreement but as an army guy I need some agreement, so please provide that quote, too.

Correct, I said the comment about your need to require 100% agreement because I thought due to your army mentality, you want uniformity in the ranks. Then you said that as a chaplain you don’t need 100% agreement but as an army guy you do. So this is where we are in relation to that comment.
Do you remember all of this? Or how we got here? If you do, then i asked which choice do you want to make? Be at peace with disagreement or do you want absolute agreement?

I understand that you were not born in the U.S., so you wethat in the U.S. Thanksgiving is often celebrated by eating a big meal with some people going back for seconds, so the "idiom" or comparison is that is why I referred to trying for more agreement.

So then what does this comment have anything to do with my comment where I said that “why do you have this need to require 100% agreement on everything?”.
How does this relate to going back to more food on the table for the second time at thanksgiving?

Yes, I am saying that the guns carried by the men in my army unit were used for the good purpose of protecting babies, adults and doctors from being murdered. This is called peacemaking, which is an application of GW to politics that is blessed by Jesus. I do not understand what this has to do with "assisted suicide".

This has to do with the fact that either side can make the moral ground for any insane thing and either side being unable to see beyond their mindset. Remember we are having this specific point about morality because you said that the left kills babies while the right kills adults with guns.

I did not see you answer my question, "Would the metaphors of salt and light (MT 5:13-16) be more clear than the metaphor about yeast leavening bread in order to illustrate how the KOG/Christians leaven or provide salt and light to earthly entities such as family, church and politics/government, although imperfectly?"

I answered your question 3 times now but you can’t process it because you want to desperately link it to MAGA, which I will never do.
The answer to the question for the 4th time is that as a Christian you lead a life of example like Christ did, you don’t follow political trends at a random part of a globe at some random point in history.
This is the answer to your question for the 4th time.

Again, I do NOT confuse MAGA with the Kingdom of God, but I discern that its policies are more in line with NT morality than those of the Dems, and I think your accusation re self-awareness is condemned by Jesus in MT 7:1-5.

Now you’re sounding like a broken record and even more lost in your blue-pill which is even more funny.
Your inability to understand this basic concept of separating earthly politics from the KOG is condemned by Jesus in MT 22:21.

 

[SonJudgment]

Believe it or not, the democrats actually have started more wars than any other party in American history, so if you're trying to liken abortion to war, which even though that's not really an actual equivalence, it still makes it kind of a moot point argument.

 

[Eli1]

Believe it or not, the democrats actually have started more wars than any other party in American history, so if you're trying to liken abortion to war, which even though that's not really an actual equivalence, it still makes it kind of a moot point argument.

I appreciate your memes brother and a few weeks ago i asked you a question about murder and killing which you didn't answer.
Come join us for wings and beer tonight!

 

[SonJudgment]

I appreciate your memes brother and a few weeks ago i asked you a question about murder and killing which you didn't answer.
Come join us for wings and beer tonight!

Yea well that's why it's not a true equivalence. Murder is killing the innocent. In war both sides might die, they know they might die, and that's part of war, that's why it's not murder. Either way though even indulging the fallacious argument of trying to say well the GOP starts wars so they're equal to the democrats for abortion, well hold on a minute, because the democrats actually have started more wars, so even then like yea, not a great argument.

 

[Eli1]

Yea well that's why it's not a true equivalence. Murder is killing the innocent. In war both sides might die, they know they might die, and that's part of war, that's why it's not murder. Either way though even indulging thefallacious argument of trying to say well the GOP starts wars so they're equal to the democrats for abortion, well hold on a minute, because the democrats actually have started more wars, so even then like yea, not a great argument.

That's not even the argument that i'm making.
I'm saying YOU morally are okay with Killing as long as it's a legal technicality?
This is the question.

Then we can discuss team sports about Dems or Reps