Could Trump do anything to make you stop supporting him?

[Eli1]

He's actually a fairly advanced servant of Satan being that he is literally a sadducee. He appears alot in leftwing media. Don't underestmate Satan's officer tier, this is war. Obviously he already has influence here on this board. Almost everything RA has said over the course of this topic aren't actually RA's words or thoughts, they're Pakman's, that's where he's getting it from.

When people repeat the same thing over and over ... it's the definition of insanity they say.
But, everyone has a tough journey in this life while we're separated from God and either David Pakman or Alex Jones need God's help and a cleansing from their demons. We all do, but some more than others.

For now, let's raise a glass to this new chapter in American history where the woke agenda is going to be shut down for the next 4 years.

 

[SonJudgment]

When people repeat the same thing over and over ... it's the definition of insanity they say.
But, everyone has a tough journey in this life while we're separated from God and either David Pakman or Alex Jones need God's help and a cleansing from their demons. We all do, but some more than others.

For now, let's raise a glass to this new chapter in American history where the woke agenda is going to be shut down for the next 4 year.

The thing about the spiritual war is the higher you're ranked in either kingdom the further away from the DMZ that you are. In the case of Satan's servants, his officers will almost certainly never convert, they'd have to go through too much of their own ranks to do that. We have no interest in trying to convert the Enemy's officers, but rather in his slaves and conscripts who are more visible on the frontlines toiling for him and closer to the spiritual DMZ and therefore more likely to cross over and surrender to Lord Jesus. As such keep up a steady barrage against Satan's officers who keep the slaves in line, wreak havoc upon their lines, pick off their leadership.

 

[Eli1]

The thing about the spiritual war is the higher you're ranked in either kingdom the further away from the DMZ that you are. In the case of Satan's servants, his officers will almost certainly never convert, they'd have to go through too much of their own ranks to do that. We have no interest in trying to convert the Enemy's officers, but rather in his slaves and conscripts who are more visible and closer to the spiritual DMZ and therefore more likely to cross over and surrender to Lord Jesus.

Very true and most will never change until the end.
But God has a way of turning things around for His glory sometimes. Like He did with Paul and He took his eyesight away and gave him a lesson in humility.
So even the worst sinner has the potential to turn around until his last breath.

 

[SonJudgment]

Very true and most will never change until the end.
But God has a way of turning things around for His glory sometimes. Like He did with Paul and He took his eyesight away and gave him a lesson in humility.
So even the worst sinner has the potential to turn around until his last breath.

Paul wasn't as bad as he thought himself to be. He is a rare example of a high ranking officer defecting, but Paul only held the coats while the higher ranked ones stoned Stephen, and they never converted, they certainly went to Hell pretty violently as well for those familiar with the history of what happened to them afterwards. It works both ways, if you're high ranked in either kingdom, since you probably won't convert and defect to the other kingdom, you're pretty much subject to be eliminated by the other side.

 

[ZNP]

Paul wasn't as bad as he thought himself to be. He is a rare example of a high ranking officer defecting, but Paul only held the coats while the higher ranked ones stoned Stephen, and they never converted, they certainly went to Hell pretty violently as well for those familiar with the history of what happened to them afterwards. It works both ways, if you're high ranked in either kingdom, since you probably won't convert and defect to the other kingdom, you're pretty much subject to be eliminated by the other side.

As soon as Paul converted he was targeted to be killed repeatedly and that by the elites. I think Paul's word that he was less than the least indicates how low he had fallen and this may in fact be a revelation from God that Paul's salvation is the person who is pulled from the very lowest pit of hell to salvation.

Also, I believe that we see a pattern of the seven year tribulation in the book of Acts. The pre-tribulation rapture taking place right after the death of Ananias and Saphira. Stephen's death would be at the midpoint of the tribulation when the two witnesses are killed. That would be when the Jews see that Jesus is the Messiah and the scales fall from their eyes, Paul being the first fruit of that salvation.

 

[Eli1]

As soon as Paul converted he was targeted to be killed repeatedly and that by the elites. I think Paul's word that he was less than the least indicates how low he had fallen and this may in fact be a revelation from God that Paul's salvation is the person who is pulled from the very lowest pit of hell to salvation.

Interesting how you see that.
Because i see that as his new understanding in humility which is why he says "i am chief among sinners".
Not as another "rank" to see how low he had fallen.
But as a new understanding that no matter who we are, we are nothing compared to God in terms of purity and understanding.

 

[SonJudgment]

As soon as Paul converted he was targeted to be killed repeatedly and that by the elites. I think Paul's word that he was less than the least indicates how low he had fallen and this may in fact be a revelation from God that Paul's salvation is the person who is pulled from the very lowest pit of hell to salvation.

Also, I believe that we see a pattern of the seven year tribulation in the book of Acts. The pre-tribulation rapture taking place right after the death of Ananias and Saphira. Stephen's death would be at the midpoint of the tribulation when the two witnesses are killed. That would be when the Jews see that Jesus is the Messiah and the scales fall from their eyes, Paul being the first fruit of that salvation.

Indeed you are correct and perceptive, and keep in mind that when Paul defected to our side he was just the least ranked of apostles and they still killed him knowing he would not turn back to their side. Every one of the Twelve was martyred except for John, and they still tried with John. At the same time, every single one of Satan's high ranked officers that martyred the prophets and the apostles likewise died pretty horrifically too from Judas Iscariot to Nero.

 

[ZNP]

Interesting how you see that.
Because i see that as his new understanding in humility which is why he says "i am chief among sinners".
Not as another "rank" to see how low he had fallen.
But as a new understanding that no matter who we are, we are nothing compared to God in terms of purity and understanding.

I have learned that the word of God is a two edged sword. I don't believe Paul would have shared this in the New Testament if it did not apply to all of God's believers.

 

[Eli1]

I have learned that the word of God is a two edged sword. I don't believe Paul would have shared this in the New Testament if it did not apply to all of God's believers.

I agree with you here on the 'double edged' comment because when i was learning the Bible i was taught precisely that and consequently on how to address God's properties which is why i call Him a Merciful God.

 

[ZNP]

Indeed you are correct and perceptive, and keep in mind that when Paul defected to our side he was just the least ranked of apostles and they still killed him knowing he would not turn back to their side. Every one of the Twelve was martyred except for John, and they still tried with John. At the same time, every single one of Satan's high ranked officers that martyred apostles likewise died pretty horrifically too from Judas Iscariot to Nero.

I think the word "rank" is problematic in the New Testament. Yes, there are arc angels and that indicates a rank in the angelic realm. And, yes in the military and all kinds of areas in the kingdom of darkness there is rank, since all these things are a shadow of the reality we know in the spiritual realm there must also be rank. In a family is there rank? Yes, the firstborn gets a double portion of the inheritance. But after that there is no rank among the children. In a body is there a rank? No, every member of the body hears directly from the head, there is no command structure from Jesus to an intermediary to us. The Pope would have you believe there is a rank and that he speaks on behalf of Jesus. That is from the kingdom of darkness.

So it is perfectly acceptable to say that all believers are children of God, members of the body of Christ and there is no rank among us.

Yet Paul did say that he was less than the least. But that was prior to his salvation. In the kingdom of darkness there is rank, there is a heap of collapse, there are those battling to be on the top of the heap. I believe what we see is the mirror image of reality. If someone appears to be at the very top of that heap of collapse then in reality they are at the very lowest part of the pit of hell.

 

[ZNP]

I agree with you here on the 'double edged' comment because when i was learning the Bible i was taught precisely that and consequently on how to address God's properties which is why i call Him a Merciful God.

see post 13,030

 

[Eli1]

see post 13,030

I agree with most of what you've said there.
Thank you.

 

[ZNP]

Interesting how you see that.
Because i see that as his new understanding in humility which is why he says "i am chief among sinners".
Not as another "rank" to see how low he had fallen.
But as a new understanding that no matter who we are, we are nothing compared to God in terms of purity and understanding.

I agree that it is not "another" rank. I see rank as belonging to the kingdom of darkness. It is not in the Body of Christ (except for the distinction between the head and the body) and for the most part it is not in the family of God (the Bible makes a clear distinction from the firstborn to the rest of the brethren).

However, God's mercy indicates that each one of us was saved from hell. Each one of us had at the very least dipped our toe into the lake of fire. Some waded into it, some splashed around, some were swimming in it, and Paul apparently was a scuba diver who had descended lower than anyone else at the time into it.

 

[SonJudgment]

I think the word "rank" is problematic in the New Testament. Yes, there are arc angels and that indicates a rank in the angelic realm. And, yes in the military and all kinds of areas in the kingdom of darkness there is rank, since all these things are a shadow of the reality we know in the spiritual realm there must also be rank. In a family is there rank? Yes, the firstborn gets a double portion of the inheritance. But after that there is no rank among the children. In a body is there a rank? No, every member of the body hears directly from the head, there is no command structure from Jesus to an intermediary to us. The Pope would have you believe there is a rank and that he speaks on behalf of Jesus. That is from the kingdom of darkness.

So it is perfectly acceptable to say that all believers are children of God, members of the body of Christ and there is no rank among us.

Yet Paul did say that he was less than the least. But that was prior to his salvation. In the kingdom of darkness there is rank, there is a heap of collapse, there are those battling to be on the top of the heap. I believe what we see is the mirror image of reality. If someone appears to be at the very top of that heap of collapse then in reality they are at the very lowest part of the pit of hell.

There's ranks in both kingdoms, indeed they are kingdoms and this is war until the day God wholly destroys the enemy's kingdom and quite literally kills Satan (praise Jesus). 1 Corinthians 12 sets out the ranks and basic hierarchy of God's kingdom pretty well. Other passages also indicate high ranks and low ranks. Perhaps better for another topic or study though so I'll be brief and then leave this digression.

The diamond is spiritual reality as a whole, each triangle is one of the two kingdoms. The line is the spiritual DMZ. God is at the top of the top triangle as he is Most High overall and king of our kingdom. Satan is at the peak of the lowest triangle as he is the lowest creature in all creation overall but yet is the king of his kingdom. The ones closer to the DMZ on both sides are the lowest ranks, but they are also the most numerous and also the most vulnerable to being wiped out or convinced to defect being that they are on the frontlines and more visible to one another, very similarly to the real life DMZ in Korea.

 

[ZNP]

There's ranks in both kingdoms, indeed they are kingdoms and this is war until the day God wholly destroys the enemy's kingdom and quite literally kills Satan (praise Jesus). 1 Corinthians 12 sets out the ranks and basic hierarchy of God's kingdom pretty well. Other passages also indicate high ranks and low ranks. Perhaps better for another topic or study though so I'll be brief and then leave this digression.

The diamond is spiritual reality as a whole, each triangle is one of the two kingdoms. The line is the spiritual DMZ. God is at the top of the top triangle as he is Most High overall and king of our kingdom. Satan is at the peak of the lowest triangle as he is the lowest creature in all creation overall but yet is the king of his kingdom. The ones closer to the DMZ on both sides are the lowest ranks, but they are also the most numerous and also the most vulnerable to being wiped out or convinced to defect being that they are on the frontlines and more visible to one another, very similarly to the real life DMZ in Korea.

Really, can you show us the New Testament verses that support the idea that there are ranks in the body of Christ?

There are different functions, there are different gifts, but the New Testament never describes them as ranks.

The concept of rank is that you have a hierarchy. Pope -- Cardinals -- Bishops -- Priests -- Nuns and Monks -- Laity. That is the concept of the clergy laity which the Lord Jesus hates.

When you say there is rank it includes the concept of hierarchy and that concept includes the idea that laity are below priests and must follow the orders of the priest.

The new testament teaches that we are all kings and priests. It also teaches that we are all directly connected to the head and must obey the head. Now if the church or the pastor are aligned with the head then we submit to them as unto the Lord. Just because we hear from the Lord does not mean that others don't also. Everyone has a function, so if you are in charge of the children's ministry you must make decisions and as long as that aligns with the fellowship of the apostles and you are not pushing anyone to do anything that their conscience objects to then they should submit. But there is no verse that says "church of the pastors" or "church of the Bishops" etc. On the contrary there is a verse that says "Church of the saints" and "church of God" and "church of Jesus Christ". As a saint in the church the church is every bit as much mine as anyone else and nowhere am I told that anyone is speaking in place of Jesus Christ in the church.

The fellowship of the apostles is given to us, like I said, like a ground wire so that we can test the spirits. That does not mean that they were higher rank than anyone else. They had a job to do as apostles and they had to be faithful to do that job just as all of us must be faithful to the Lord. There are five talented members, 2 talented members and 1 talented members. That is not the same thing as rank. Michael Jordan was a five talented basketball player and Steve Kerr was a 2 talented basketball player. That doesn't mean that Mike was higher ranked, today Steve Kerr is adding to his legacy as a coach also he was critical in their winning their championships when he was with the Bulls.

Revelation 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

 

[SonJudgment]

Really, can you show us the New Testament verses that support the idea that there are ranks in the body of Christ?

There are different functions, there are different gifts, but the New Testament never describes them as ranks.

The concept of rank is that you have a hierarchy. Pope -- Cardinals -- Bishops -- Priests -- Nuns and Monks -- Laity. That is the concept of the clergy laity which the Lord Jesus hates.

When you say there is rank it includes the concept of hierarchy and that concept includes the idea that laity are below priests and must follow the orders of the priest.

The new testament teaches that we are all kings and priests. It also teaches that we are all directly connected to the head and must obey the head. Now if the church or the pastor are aligned with the head then we submit to them as unto the Lord. Just because we hear from the Lord does not mean that others don't also. Everyone has a function, so if you are in charge of the children's ministry you must make decisions and as long as that aligns with the fellowship of the apostles and you are not pushing anyone to do anything that their conscience objects to then they should submit. But there is no verse that says "church of the pastors" or "church of the Bishops" etc. On the contrary there is a verse that says "Church of the saints" and "church of God" and "church of Jesus Christ". As a saint in the church the church is every bit as much mine as anyone else and nowhere am I told that anyone is speaking in place of Jesus Christ in the church.

The fellowship of the apostles is given to us, like I said, like a ground wire so that we can test the spirits. That does not mean that they were higher rank than anyone else. They had a job to do as apostles and they had to be faithful to do that job just as all of us must be faithful to the Lord. There are five talented members, 2 talented members and 1 talented members. That is not the same thing as rank. Michael Jordan was a five talented basketball player and Steve Kerr was a 2 talented basketball player. That doesn't mean that Mike was higher ranked, today Steve Kerr is adding to his legacy as a coach also he was critical in their winning their championships when he was with the Bulls.

Revelation 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

Well what you're talking about with like popes and cardinals and such is the hierarchy of the earthly churches. Hierarchies within hierarchies. What I am talking about is the hierarchy within the two spiritual kingdoms themselves. Again 1 Corinthians 12 gives you the basic hierarchy of the Kingdom of God, though of course as pointed out there are then hierarchies within these hierarchies as for instance among the clergy. You could add Matthew 5 in there also among others. Perhaps this would make a good BDF topic unto itself really.

 

[ZNP]

Well what you're talking about with like popes and cardinals and such is the hierarchy of the earthly churches. Hierarchies within hierarchies. What I am talking about is the hierarchy within the two spiritual kingdoms themselves. Again 1 Corinthians 12 gives you the basic hierarchy of the Kingdom of God, though of course as pointed out there are then hierarchies within these hierarchies as for instance among the clergy. You could add Matthew 5 in there also among others. Perhaps this would make a good BDF topic unto itself really.

I expected that you were talking about 1 Corinthians 12, it is commonly taught in Christianity this way. But let's look carefully at the verses:

1 Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

The very first thing to learn is that the gentiles are taught to be dumb. Movie stars and TV stars and talking heads get to speak, you shut up and listen. That is contrary to all the gifts. We are not spectators we are participants.

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Simple little test. There are many so called preachers who think they are funny and will make stupid little jokes which amount to saying that Jesus is accursed. Obviously there are many arrogant and proud who also say this. Also, even more subtle, they will add criteria and practices that are not in the New Testament but for some reason are required or allowed by them. That means they are not saying that Jesus is Lord. If they say the Bible is sexist, or out of date, well that means they are saying it is accursed and that Jesus is not Lord.

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

Key concept. Think about the US military, you have branches of service and in those branches you have different roles. You could be in the engine room of a naval ship, or you could be deciphering coded messages of the enemy, or you could simply be a courier carrying messages, etc. Every job is essential. Logistics can be the difference between victory and defeat. So yes, we all have different gifts, not everyone is Rambo, but every job has the same goal to bring in the kingdom of the heavens.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

How do you administer your gift? I see some people are speaking to crowds like Billy Graham, others are on Youtube, still others are writing blogs, and still others are doing street preaching. You are to follow the Lord's leading.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

If God is not operating in your ministry then something is wrong. But I have also listened to the testimony of many of the Lord's children and I asked the Lord why He wasn't operating with me the same way. For example, I prayed about a rapture dream and immediately I got one. But then I realized I don't want a ministry of dreams, I prefer the more sure word of God. However, I did pray from time to time for help from the Lord and He provided help through dreams.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

We need the manifestation of the Spirit if we are to minister. Others will be asking for the Lord to show them that He is operating in your ministry and so God will manifest the Spirit. That is an experience that every single person should have, just as every person in the military wears a uniform for that military.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

Wisdom is useless if it cannot be supported by knowledge and knowledge is useless if you can't get the insight from wisdom. One is not above the other, they are both needed. Michael Jordan needed Scotty Pippin and vice versa.

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

These gifts are more specialized. For example, suppose the church has a ministry for drug addicts. That is not going to apply to every member in the Body of Christ, but that does not mean it is less important than any other gift. For the drug addicts that get saved and delivered it will be extremely important ministry.

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

Take "discerning of spirits". I had to discern Fauci's spirit, decided I did not trust him and that was extremely important at the time. It was a big decision to not take the shot, it meant my wife and I would lose our jobs and have to sell our house and move. But how often do you need this gift? When you need it then it is critical. I had a flat tire in my car about 250 miles from home. That was the first time I noticed there was a phone number on the driver side window. I called it, they came out and took care of me. I had driven 15,000 miles in that car without ever needing that number, but when I needed it, then it was critical.

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

We have many spiritual needs and they are all provided by the Spirit to us in the Body of Christ. There are different gifts, administrations and operations, but they are all essential and they all are operating based on the One Spirit.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

 

[SonJudgment]

I expected that you were talking about 1 Corinthians 12, it is commonly taught in Christianity this way. But let's look carefully at the verses:

1 Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

The very first thing to learn is that the gentiles are taught to be dumb. Movie stars and TV stars and talking heads get to speak, you shut up and listen. That is contrary to all the gifts. We are not spectators we are participants.

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Simple little test. There are many so called preachers who think they are funny and will make stupid little jokes which amount to saying that Jesus is accursed. Obviously there are many arrogant and proud who also say this. Also, even more subtle, they will add criteria and practices that are not in the New Testament but for some reason are required or allowed by them. That means they are not saying that Jesus is Lord. If they say the Bible is sexist, or out of date, well that means they are saying it is accursed and that Jesus is not Lord.

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

Key concept. Think about the US military, you have branches of service and in those branches you have different roles. You could be in the engine room of a naval ship, or you could be deciphering coded messages of the enemy, or you could simply be a courier carrying messages, etc. Every job is essential. Logistics can be the difference between victory and defeat. So yes, we all have different gifts, not everyone is Rambo, but every job has the same goal to bring in the kingdom of the heavens.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

How do you administer your gift? I see some people are speaking to crowds like Billy Graham, others are on Youtube, still others are writing blogs, and still others are doing street preaching. You are to follow the Lord's leading.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

If God is not operating in your ministry then something is wrong. But I have also listened to the testimony of many of the Lord's children and I asked the Lord why He wasn't operating with me the same way. For example, I prayed about a rapture dream and immediately I got one. But then I realized I don't want a ministry of dreams, I prefer the more sure word of God. However, I did pray from time to time for help from the Lord and He provided help through dreams.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

We need the manifestation of the Spirit if we are to minister. Others will be asking for the Lord to show them that He is operating in your ministry and so God will manifest the Spirit. That is an experience that every single person should have, just as every person in the military wears a uniform for that military.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

Wisdom is useless if it cannot be supported by knowledge and knowledge is useless if you can't get the insight from wisdom. One is not above the other, they are both needed. Michael Jordan needed Scotty Pippin and vice versa.

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

These gifts are more specialized. For example, suppose the church has a ministry for drug addicts. That is not going to apply to every member in the Body of Christ, but that does not mean it is less important than any other gift. For the drug addicts that get saved and delivered it will be extremely important ministry.

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

Take "discerning of spirits". I had to discern Fauci's spirit, decided I did not trust him and that was extremely important at the time. It was a big decision to not take the shot, it meant my wife and I would lose our jobs and have to sell our house and move. But how often do you need this gift? When you need it then it is critical. I had a flat tire in my car about 250 miles from home. That was the first time I noticed there was a phone number on the driver side window. I called it, they came out and took care of me. I had driven 15,000 miles in that car without ever needing that number, but when I needed it, then it was critical.

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

We have many spiritual needs and they are all provided by the Spirit to us in the Body of Christ. There are different gifts, administrations and operations, but they are all essential and they all are operating based on the One Spirit.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

Lol to be frank no, I am referring to verse 28 specifically, but I do like your input here on the start of the chapter indeed it makes me think it would make a great BDF topic that I would make if it were not Thanksgiving Day and I am sort of here and there today lol. As for Matthew 5 since I have to go look up the verse, I am referring to verse 19 for the chapter, something to meditate upon. And of course there's others if we're going to just comb the Bible that are either just explicit or implicit of course. Like I said perhaps it would make a great BDF topic studying and exploring spiritual kingdoms and their hierarchies and roles. It's quite a vast subject after all.

 

[ZNP]

Lol to be frank no, I am referring to verse 28 specifically, but I do like your input here on the start of the chapter indeed it makes me think it would make a great BDF topic that I would make if it were not Thanksgiving Day and I am sort of here and there today lol. As for Matthew 5 since I have to go look up the verse, I am referring to verse 19 for the chapter, something to meditate upon. And of course there's others if we're going to just comb the Bible that are either just explicit or implicit of course. Like I said perhaps it would make a great BDF topic studying and exploring spiritual kingdoms and their hierarchies and roles. It's quite a vast subject after all.

1 Corinthians 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

I tried to refer a little to this in that the fellowship of the apostles has been given to us is given as a way for us to check and test the spirits. It is crucial that any speaking we get align with the word of God. Then I understand prophets not so much as telling us the future but of speaking forth the word of God. Since they are second, it must align with the fellowship of the apostles, but if it does then we should submit. I reference that as well. The pastor, the elders, the children's ministry, etc. They all will have authority over their ministry and as long as it aligns with the fellowship of the apostles and with our conscience we should submit. Notice the Sunday school teacher is third, they need to submit to the Pastor. After that miracles, we don't need a constant diet of miracles, what we need is a constant diet of the word of God. However, miracles will follow those who are one with God and the Holy Spirit and I referenced that we will have the manifestation of the Spirit as a testimony to the unbelievers. Helps refers to the other ministries like helping addicts, or a soup kitchen. Governments is like the councils and a board of directors. Notice how this is not the head but the tail. In Christianity they allow FreeMasons to come in, sit on the board, give a lot of money and tell the Pastor what he is not to speak about. That is backwards. Finally at the bottom is diversity of tongues. It is very clear in the book of 1 Corinthians speaking in tongues is not to dominate the church meeting. They are only to have the speaking if they also have an interpreter. I view speaking in tongues like baby talk, God wants us all to have a speaking ministry and just like babies we begin with baby talk until we can actually speak the word. Also, like babies the mother can usually tell us what the baby is saying.

So then it is very possible that these gifts indicate growth and maturity in life. Again, if you are in a large family with adults, college kids, teenagers, elementary school kids and babies that could be seen as a "hierarchy" in that the adult can take a knife away from the baby, etc. In my own experience I got involved with helps first, had a few experiences with miracles and healing, then studied the word till I could teach it, and a higher skill was speaking forth the word of God.

 

[SonJudgment]

1 Corinthians 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

I tried to refer a little to this in that the fellowship of the apostles has been given to us is given as a way for us to check and test the spirits. It is crucial that any speaking we get align with the word of God. Then I understand prophets not so much as telling us the future but of speaking forth the word of God. Since they are second, it must align with the fellowship of the apostles, but if it does then we should submit. I reference that as well. The pastor, the elders, the children's ministry, etc. They all will have authority over their ministry and as long as it aligns with the fellowship of the apostles and with our conscience we should submit. Notice the Sunday school teacher is third, they need to submit to the Pastor. After that miracles, we don't need a constant diet of miracles, what we need is a constant diet of the word of God. However, miracles will follow those who are one with God and the Holy Spirit and I referenced that we will have the manifestation of the Spirit as a testimony to the unbelievers. Helps refers to the other ministries like helping addicts, or a soup kitchen. Governments is like the councils and a board of directors. Notice how this is not the head but the tail. In Christianity they allow FreeMasons to come in, sit on the board, give a lot of money and tell the Pastor what he is not to speak about. That is backwards. Finally at the bottom is diversity of tongues. It is very clear in the book of 1 Corinthians speaking in tongues is not to dominate the church meeting. They are only to have the speaking if they also have an interpreter. I view speaking in tongues like baby talk, God wants us all to have a speaking ministry and just like babies we begin with baby talk until we can actually speak the word. Also, like babies the mother can usually tell us what the baby is saying.

So then it is very possible that these gifts indicate growth and maturity in life. Again, if you are in a large family with adults, college kids, teenagers, elementary school kids and babies that could be seen as a "hierarchy" in that the adult can take a knife away from the baby, etc. In my own experience I got involved with helps first, had a few experiences with miracles and healing, then studied the word till I could teach it, and a higher skill was speaking forth the word of God.

Well that's what I mean then there are hierarchies within the hierarchy. Ie: Paul is the least of apostles, John the Baptist is the least of the prophets, the laity is the least of the clergy, etc.