The Effect of Eve's Sin on Women
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Please try to stop introducing your own preconceptions into the discussion. I was obviously not discussing Paul or for that matter, anyone whatsoever in this forum as I have stated more than once now. There is also no need for you to attempt to create the illusions that I somehow do not answer questions or that I might believe whatever I post is the final word or thought on a matter. That, is childish behavior.
Can we all just act like adults and ask questions instead of creating accusations? Those tactics are not helpful and really, they should either be addressed by those to whom you present a false scenario to try and gain advantage or, ignored altogether. I am fine and open for questions/discussion, but not what you seem to be doing
Can we all just act like adults and ask questions instead of creating accusations? Those tactics are not helpful and really, they should either be addressed by those to whom you present a false scenario to try and gain advantage or, ignored altogether. I am fine and open for questions/discussion, but not what you seem to be doing
"Arrogant" and "misogynist" are perhaps better terms for such people. They don't necessarily "hate" women, but consider them at least slightly inferior to themselves and to men in general. Further, they typically consider anyone who doesn't believe exactly as they do in all things spiritually inferior and are quick to label anyone who questions them as "rebellious". If they have no formal "authority" over the "rebel" they will accuse them of rebelling against God. Pride and self-righteousness are at the root of the problem. 
There are people who will display arrogance without being narcissistic and of course there are men who platform off of misogyny. If a person is an actual narcissist, it is highly doubtful that behavior will ever or can ever, be changed. The spiritual element to this behavior is also something to be considered and those who are under a pastor, husband/wife, teacher, really any authority figure in their life, suffer and have a very hard time getting free especially considering the spiritual dimension to all of it.
The accusations of rebellion or rebellious are forms of control, as you state, and the Bible would define those actions as 'witchcraft'. You probably know that the Bible states that rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, (I Sam. 15:23)so we have a double headed spear here designed to keep the 'captive' captive. Control, or the desire to do so, is demonic in origin which may startle some to know, but you can check that out in scripture easy enough.
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1Co 14:34
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
Genesis 3 says about the husband......."he shall rule over thee" which goes right along with Paul's saying "they are commanded to be under obedience". Adam was given authority over Eve.
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
Genesis 3 says about the husband......."he shall rule over thee" which goes right along with Paul's saying "they are commanded to be under obedience". Adam was given authority over Eve.
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.
● Gen 3:22a . . And the Lord God said: Now that Man has become as one of
us discerning good and evil,
From what little information we're given, it appears to me the Adams came
into existence needing catechism. In their case, the teacher would've been
God had not the Serpent succeeded in convincing Eve she could do just as
well without Him.
Well; it looks to me that the forbidden fruit incident led the Adams to
become somewhat independent, viz: self-confident enough to believe
themselves capable of discerning between good and evil on their own
that would be just as reliable as their maker's discernment. But if the
book of Judges teaches us anything at all it's that doing what seems
right in one's own eyes results in decadence.
Here's my parting shot at feminism, suffrage, ERA, and equal pay for
equal work,
Anything you can do, I can do better than you can do,
I can do, we can do, I can do, much much better than you.
Anything you can do, I can do better.
I can do anything better than you.
Anything you can be I can be greater.
Sooner or later, I'm greater than you.
Anything you can sing I can sing louder.
I can sing anything louder than you.
Anything you can buy, I can buy cheaper.
I can buy anything cheaper than you.
Anything you can dig, I can dig deeper.
I can dig anything deeper than you.
Any note you can reach, I can go higher.
I can sing anything higher than you.
Anyone you can lick, I can lick faster.
I can lick anyone faster than you.
Anything you can do, I can do better.
I can do anything better than you.
Lyrics from Annie Get Your Gun
Irving Berlin, 1946
Well; one thing the sharpshooting lass could not do better than men, nor
ever would do better than men, is be a man in the Divine scheme.
Anyway; I sincerely sympathize with women's dissatisfaction with their
function and placement in the Divine scheme of things. I also sympathize
with progressive women's resentment that Christianity burdens women with
inequality. But at the same time I must insist that Christian women accept it
as a "born that way" disadvantage; and bloom where they're planted, i.e.
make do and make the best of it; keeping in mind that our current
circumstances-- whether the best or less than best -- are only a temporary
inconvenience.
"I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the
glory that will be revealed in us." (Rom 8:18)
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● Gen 3:22a . . And the Lord God said: Now that Man has become as one of
us discerning good and evil,
From what little information we're given, it appears to me the Adams came
into existence needing catechism. In their case, the teacher would've been
God had not the Serpent succeeded in convincing Eve she could do just as
well without Him.
Well; it looks to me that the forbidden fruit incident led the Adams to
become somewhat independent, viz: self-confident enough to believe
themselves capable of discerning between good and evil on their own
that would be just as reliable as their maker's discernment. But if the
book of Judges teaches us anything at all it's that doing what seems
right in one's own eyes results in decadence.
Here's my parting shot at feminism, suffrage, ERA, and equal pay for
equal work,
Anything you can do, I can do better than you can do,
I can do, we can do, I can do, much much better than you.
Anything you can do, I can do better.
I can do anything better than you.
Anything you can be I can be greater.
Sooner or later, I'm greater than you.
Anything you can sing I can sing louder.
I can sing anything louder than you.
Anything you can buy, I can buy cheaper.
I can buy anything cheaper than you.
Anything you can dig, I can dig deeper.
I can dig anything deeper than you.
Any note you can reach, I can go higher.
I can sing anything higher than you.
Anyone you can lick, I can lick faster.
I can lick anyone faster than you.
Anything you can do, I can do better.
I can do anything better than you.
Lyrics from Annie Get Your Gun
Irving Berlin, 1946
Well; one thing the sharpshooting lass could not do better than men, nor
ever would do better than men, is be a man in the Divine scheme.
Anyway; I sincerely sympathize with women's dissatisfaction with their
function and placement in the Divine scheme of things. I also sympathize
with progressive women's resentment that Christianity burdens women with
inequality. But at the same time I must insist that Christian women accept it
as a "born that way" disadvantage; and bloom where they're planted, i.e.
make do and make the best of it; keeping in mind that our current
circumstances-- whether the best or less than best -- are only a temporary
inconvenience.
"I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the
glory that will be revealed in us." (Rom 8:18)
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Normally when Paul speaks of the law he's referring to the covenant that
Moses' people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and
Deuteronomy.
Exactly where in the covenant that women are forbidden to speak in an
assembly I don't know. However, it's quite obvious that the covenant is very
sexist, i.e. women were not installed in either the Levitical priesthood or the
Sanhedrin.
* Moses' law doesn't always specifically address certain things. Sometimes
the law's rules and procedures imply principles that we call "the spirit of the
law". For example Jesus' critics were educated experts in the black and
white letter of the law relative to the weekly routine sabbath but they were
as illiterate as mannequins in regard to applying the spirit of the sabbath.
(e.g. Matt 12:1-13 & Mark 3:1-5)
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Misogyny was given quite a bit of negative press during President Elect
Donald Trump's former administration; while misandry was condoned as if it
were acceptable. But malice is unacceptable with God on any level; and I
think we have to acquiesce to the possibility that there are just as many, if not
more, man haters in Hell as there are woman haters because women are not
a protected species with God; nor is their gender a mitigating factor. They
will be judged solely on the basis of their lives the same as men.
● Rom 2:9-11. .There will be trouble and distress for every human being
who does evil: For God does not show favoritism.
* The disturbing scene depicted at Rev 20:11-15 will be supervised by
none other than the man who came into the world as a sweet little babe
in swaddling clothes.
● John 5:21-23 . . Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all
judgment to the Son
● Acts 17:31 . . He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice
by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by
raising him from the dead.
I would very much dislike to be a woman infected with misandry because in
the end, it will be a "toxic male" that dooms man-hating women and thus
permanently ruin any chances they might have had for happiness in the
future. For all eternity, those militant females will grind their teeth with hot
tears and clenched-fist fury that they ultimately lost out on everything
because of one lone man's obsessive control over their lives. Hell is bad
enough as it is, but I would imagine that existing there seething with rage
makes one's circumstances a hell within Hell.
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Recriminations are a natural reaction to criticism; typically motivated by
resentment at being singled out for faults common to others.
However, recriminations are quite futile. They do nothing to mitigate one's
own faults nor excuse their conduct. Recriminations are an indignant
person's way of dragging people down with them so they don't go down
alone.
● Luke 6:29 . . And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek, offer also
the other.
In this day and age of assertiveness, turning the other cheek is no longer in
vogue with some Christians. Oh, they'll vote for turning the other cheek
alright and agree it's good Christian character. But you know, good Christian
character is sort of like the Classics: everybody says we ought to have the
Classics in our libraries, but really: who ever reads them?
● 1Pet 2:21-24 . . For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered
for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps . . who, when
He was reviled, did not revile in return.
_
No, Adam was not given authority over Eve. Eve was told that, as a result of what she did, her husband would rule over her. It's a statement of certain consequence, not a statement of authority.
Look at it this way: why would God, Who is good, give now-sinful man authority over anything, let alone His precious daughter? May it never be! Rather, look at the many ways in which men have oppressed women and consider whether that is perhaps the exact consequence that God foretold!
There isn't a single "command" anywhere in the Law saying that women must be "under obedience". Paul knew the Law better than you or I do, and he knew that. The best explanation is that verses 34 and 35 in 1 Corinthians 14 are a quotation of another person's words. That means verse 36 is Paul rejecting the idea that women must be silent, which is consistent with Galatians 3:28.
Look at it this way: why would God, Who is good, give now-sinful man authority over anything, let alone His precious daughter? May it never be! Rather, look at the many ways in which men have oppressed women and consider whether that is perhaps the exact consequence that God foretold!
There isn't a single "command" anywhere in the Law saying that women must be "under obedience". Paul knew the Law better than you or I do, and he knew that. The best explanation is that verses 34 and 35 in 1 Corinthians 14 are a quotation of another person's words. That means verse 36 is Paul rejecting the idea that women must be silent, which is consistent with Galatians 3:28.