Understanding God’s election
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Prove everything you've said from the bible. It seems to me that if the brain of man plays such a big role in his moral/spiritual obligations to God, then scripture would command us to transform our brains. Yet, it instead it tells us to transform our MINDS which is the immaterial part of the brain. The mind being a component of the equally immaterial soul and heart.
OK....
Your question:
Out of curiosity, by quoting John 6:28-29, are you suggesting that true belief cannot originate from man himself, but is only given to someone through God's intervention and work?
My answer is as follows.
The Pharisees had turned the Jews into a mindset of works-mania. They became oriented to learning from religious leaders whatever
works that leader prescribed for gaining eternal life. Its one reason Jesus showed such hatred for the Pharisees like He did.
And, you will note in the Gospels, some asked "rabbi" Jesus for what work they must do to inherit eternal life.
The disciples wanted to know what works he (as a rabbi) would give them.
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
So then, Jesus told them:
29 “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
Jesus was saying?
Do not seek the works of the Pharisees. Submit to the work of God!
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
Jesus was replacing of the Pharisaical works, with God's one work onto eternal life!
grace and peace ..........
Your question:
Out of curiosity, by quoting John 6:28-29, are you suggesting that true belief cannot originate from man himself, but is only given to someone through God's intervention and work?
My answer is as follows.
The Pharisees had turned the Jews into a mindset of works-mania. They became oriented to learning from religious leaders whatever
works that leader prescribed for gaining eternal life. Its one reason Jesus showed such hatred for the Pharisees like He did.
And, you will note in the Gospels, some asked "rabbi" Jesus for what work they must do to inherit eternal life.
The disciples wanted to know what works he (as a rabbi) would give them.
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
So then, Jesus told them:
29 “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
Jesus was saying?
Do not seek the works of the Pharisees. Submit to the work of God!
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
Jesus was replacing of the Pharisaical works, with God's one work onto eternal life!
grace and peace ..........
The Lord had blood shed on behalf of Adam after he fell.
The Bible does not say it directly.
It takes insight to understand.
The very thing someone here seems to hate when everything is not spelled out "ABC", so we do not have to think.
Atonement for Adam?
Yes....
Animal blood was shed after Adam fell.
How can we know?
Blood was shed to provide Adam and the woman the animal skins to cover themselves with!
Sad to say... Insight is the bane of non-analytical minds.
Minds that keep refusing to learn because they did not think it for themself.
The Bible does not say it directly.
It takes insight to understand.
The very thing someone here seems to hate when everything is not spelled out "ABC", so we do not have to think.
Atonement for Adam?
Yes....
Animal blood was shed after Adam fell.
How can we know?
Blood was shed to provide Adam and the woman the animal skins to cover themselves with!
Sad to say... Insight is the bane of non-analytical minds.
Minds that keep refusing to learn because they did not think it for themself.
Yes, I do for about 15 different reasons that I unearthed from scripture. The fact that he had empirical proof of God's existence is only one of those reasons. Another is that Adam must fall into one of the two seeds in Gen 3:15; and it sure isn't the Woman's seed since he did not proceed from Eve. Therefore, this leaves two options. Adam is either the serpent's spiritual seed or he's simply left out in the cold. The latter, doesn't seem like a very tenable option, since the Woman's seed is the godly seed and the serpent's spiritual seed is the ungodly. Can there be anything in between the godly and ungodly? It would appear the Law of the Excluded Middle applies here.
Animal blood was shed -- but does that mean Adam had faith in God's work? There's evidence that Eve had faith, but Adam? ZERO evidence.
Animal blood was shed -- but does that mean Adam had faith in God's work? There's evidence that Eve had faith, but Adam? ZERO evidence.
On the other hand, you and others have to hang your hat on one verse (3:21) whereas I cam up with a large number of verses that form the preponderance of evidence to the effect that God did not redeem Adam. And it wasn't until years later that I expanded my argument to show how Adam was also type of Satan. (Not surprising either when we consider that Adam has the very dubious distinction in scripture of being a type of Christ by contrasts.) So that brought the argument up to about 20 points. I think common sense dictates to go with the weightier argument.
Talk about God's providence. I'm having my evening devotional in the Psalms, and Ps 4:5 jumped out at me and is pertinent to what I've been questioning all along about Gen 3:21 with regards to the assumption made by many (if not most) that Adam received the animal coverings from God by faith. There is absolutely no evidence in scripture that Adam did. Now to Ps 4:5:
Ps 4:5
5 Offer right sacrifices
and trust in the LORD.
NIV
Here we can see the very close and mandatory connection between commanded sacrifices and faith on the part of the one making the sacrifices. Offering sacrifices apart from genuine faith is an abomination to God, which we learn from other OT passages. Well, since this was the case under the Law, why wouldn't the same principle apply to Gen 3:21? God prescribed specific sacrifices under the Law, so does it make any material difference if God graciously provided the sacrifice but the recipient didn't receive it by faith? Again, since there is absolutely no biblical proof that Adam did, then to make the assumption to the contrary is made from an argument of silence, and this stands in sharp contrast to Eve where there is biblical evidence that Eve had faith.,
Ps 4:5
5 Offer right sacrifices
and trust in the LORD.
NIV
Here we can see the very close and mandatory connection between commanded sacrifices and faith on the part of the one making the sacrifices. Offering sacrifices apart from genuine faith is an abomination to God, which we learn from other OT passages. Well, since this was the case under the Law, why wouldn't the same principle apply to Gen 3:21? God prescribed specific sacrifices under the Law, so does it make any material difference if God graciously provided the sacrifice but the recipient didn't receive it by faith? Again, since there is absolutely no biblical proof that Adam did, then to make the assumption to the contrary is made from an argument of silence, and this stands in sharp contrast to Eve where there is biblical evidence that Eve had faith.,
Huh??? Did you not say this" with God's one work onto eternal life!"? God's one work unto eternal life: eternal life is by God's one work, not man's!
Eternal life is not obtained through one's own efforts; rather, it is a complete gift bestowed freely by a gracious and merciful God through Jesus Christ unto those He had chosen for such.
[Eph 2:8 KJV] 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Eternal life is not obtained through one's own efforts; rather, it is a complete gift bestowed freely by a gracious and merciful God through Jesus Christ unto those He had chosen for such.
[Eph 2:8 KJV] 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
There's nothing illogical or worldly in what I wrote. It's common sense!
Suppose someone gets arrested for a crime and the only evidence the police have is from one eyewitness who claims he saw the suspect run from the scene of the crime. The case goes to court and the defense provides NUMEROUS evidence that places the suspect many miles from the crime. Let's say the defense comes up with 15 witnesses that can corroborate the suspect's testimony and after hearing all the witnesses the defense rests its case and the jury deliberates. Who do you think the jury is going to believe: 1 eyewitness or 15 of them?
You come up with one piece of evidence of God providing animal coverings to cover BOTH A&E's sins; yet all you do is ASSUME that Adam appropriated God's gift by faith; whereas with Eve, we have multiple pieces of evidence that she was in fact reconciled to God AND manifested faith afterward. But where is that kind of evidence for Adam? And if Adam was reconciled to God along with Eve, why isn't Adam's seed the godly seed instead of Eve's? In fact, why isn't Adam the spiritual father of all who have faith like his, instead of Abraham!?
Try using your head for something other than a hat rack.
Suppose someone gets arrested for a crime and the only evidence the police have is from one eyewitness who claims he saw the suspect run from the scene of the crime. The case goes to court and the defense provides NUMEROUS evidence that places the suspect many miles from the crime. Let's say the defense comes up with 15 witnesses that can corroborate the suspect's testimony and after hearing all the witnesses the defense rests its case and the jury deliberates. Who do you think the jury is going to believe: 1 eyewitness or 15 of them?
You come up with one piece of evidence of God providing animal coverings to cover BOTH A&E's sins; yet all you do is ASSUME that Adam appropriated God's gift by faith; whereas with Eve, we have multiple pieces of evidence that she was in fact reconciled to God AND manifested faith afterward. But where is that kind of evidence for Adam? And if Adam was reconciled to God along with Eve, why isn't Adam's seed the godly seed instead of Eve's? In fact, why isn't Adam the spiritual father of all who have faith like his, instead of Abraham!?
Try using your head for something other than a hat rack.
I'm wrong because......???? I'm wrong because I refuse to make assumptions or read my personal biased presuppositions into passages? If that's case: I happily plead guilty as charged!
When you guys can come up with one piece of BIBLICAL evidence that Adam received God's gift by faith, by all means get back to me. I stand by the rock solid principle taught in Ps 4:5 -- Sacrifices must be made or received by FAITH. All we know from scripture is that God made a provision but we have no evidence that Adam received it by faith. In fact to the contrary if we are to believe Job's inspired commentary on Adam in 31:33.
When you guys can come up with one piece of BIBLICAL evidence that Adam received God's gift by faith, by all means get back to me. I stand by the rock solid principle taught in Ps 4:5 -- Sacrifices must be made or received by FAITH. All we know from scripture is that God made a provision but we have no evidence that Adam received it by faith. In fact to the contrary if we are to believe Job's inspired commentary on Adam in 31:33.