The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation

[Pilgrimshope]

My phrasing is Biblical. What about the fact that God circumcises our sinful nature do you object to?
God gives us a new heart. Replacing our heart of stone with one of flesh. That is Biblical also.
We are told this is done by the Holy Spirit of God, or "the circumcision of Christ", not ourselves.

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands,
in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: <= KJV

In Him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of your sinful nature,
with the circumcision performed by Christ and not by human hands. <= BSB

Philippians 3:3
For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God,
who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh—

Ephesians 4:22-24
to put off your former way of life, your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; / to be renewed in
the spirit of your minds; / and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

We can only do that after we have been made alive in Christ (while we were yet dead in our sins). Once our sinful nature known as the flesh into which we are ALL born, has been cut away, circumcised, pictured in olden days as physical and a different body part, now signifying our heart out of which spring the desires of life, God giving us NEW ones... then such a choice as believing in God, the One True God, can be made. Until then, people are blinded by the god of this world and taken captive to the will of the devil. The flesh, within which NO GOOD dwells, how can anyone think out of that lover-of-darkness mindset, a slave to sin, suppressor of truth, hostile-to-God mind is going to choose to believe in God? Is that the issue? You think such a man can choose to believe of their own free will from that state? I realize it is for some and even you have made sounds which look like you equate being enabled with being forced, when enabling allows us to choose rightly. Nobody can come unless they are drawn, and ALL God gives Jesus will come. Is that to be called being forced in your mind?

“My phrasing is Biblical. What about the fact that God circumcises our sinful nature do you object to?”

mmhm I wasn’t saying your phrasing isn’t “ biblical “ I’m saying when you say “ God Will circumcise our sinful nature “

im saying Paul actually taught What that phrase means.

“And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:

that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:2-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I was saying the phrases you’re using from the Bible are explained what they mean tangibly for instance baptism there being “ how “ God circumcised the sinful flesh in Christs death and resurrection .

thats all I meant by your phrasing , that those phrases have a lot of well explained meaning. So to be clear I’m not disputing that God said in the old covenant that he would make a new covenant and circumcise thier hearts and flesh and give them a new heart .

I’m saying that’s what the gospel does

 

[Magenta]

This part is what I don’t agree with sister respectfully of course I hope you understand lol

“in the flesh within which NO good dwells, as all most certainly are born that way “

My opinion or “what I believe “ is that we aren’t born that way we become that way later through the the exploitation of our free Will when we follow sin because of the lust that’s in us through the worlds influences “ lusts of the eyes , lusts of the flesh , pride of life “ lies of the devil as well.

Before this verse your acknowledging is biblical truth and I agree it’s a true statement and relevant to this talk

“For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:14, 18‬ ‭

My point is that before we get there he’s already said this

“For I was alive without the law once:

but when the commandment came, sin revived,

and I died.

And the commandment, which was ordained to life,

I found to be unto death.

For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:9-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then of course he explains how he’s been sold into sin and has become a captive of the knowledge of good and evil and law of sin it’s

“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

( that’s not meant to be within man it’s there because they are the forbidden fruit we were supposed to always just believe God )

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So what im saying is we aren’t born dead we serve sin awhile and become corrupted and desire it more and more and become that way We aren’t born that way is my own unofficial opinion and where I had disagreed.

“and said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

those children aren’t born and already condemned they haven’t become corrupted by the world yet. I don’t believe. But time in this world corrupted our minds and hearts

“For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof:

but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This worlds hard on a human bieng . We maybe believe on something that doesn’t work out or turn out to be true and it causes a flaw a doubt later an issue . someone commits a harsh thing against us . Or Maybe someone watches a lot of pornography or spends all his time at a dance club.ect so many bad influences in the world those things go into our mind and heart and cause issues just as the things of God we take in redeem and build us up in his things , the worlds things year is down and turn us away from his things sort of a microcosm in Eden

I believe ( my old foolish opinion only nothing special just discussing here ) we develope a sinful nature the more of the worlds sinful things we engage in before we rewlly Know any better and then later we find Jesus and the need for repentance.

i believe God creates people that are capable and full of potential . To either impact the world for Good or bad and then he places them in the garden and tells them the way to go but there’s also the worlds voice pulling by them away from it like in Eden. But some actually have walked in his ways that he acknolwedges like Enoch , noah , Daniel , job and of course others but I do t think humans are born corrupt and without a choice

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin,

but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16-17‬ ‭

Yes I love how respectful you are with others even while disagreeing, you are a good example to me, and I hope you do not think I am being disrespectful, as I am trying to stick to what has been said without introducing too many new ideas, or straying from what the Bible actually says... and perhaps you know my answers tend to a shorter side rather than longer which is opposite of you LOL. In fact when I first asked earlier today and saw your very long response I could not even... as they say LOL heh I was at work and carrying on another convo at pretty much the same time and there was just too much in your post for me to absorb under the circumstances. And really all I wanted to know was what your disagreed with, having indicated you thought my premise wrong. My premise being all people are born with the flesh nature of which it is said in Scripture that NO GOOD THING dwells. My premise being grounded solidly in Scripture. And, as Jesus said, you MUST be born again.

So yes people are prone to sin, their nature inclines them thusly. When Paul says he was alive without the law do you think he means he was alive as in alive in Christ, as it is to be born again, and THEN he died having sinned? Because it is imperative that people be born again of the spirit of God, and so saying he was alive does not look to me that he was alive in any way that is desirable for attaining to life ever after. Please let us leave babies and children out of this discussion. Aside from the fact I do not know the age of accountability it is a certainty that they will sin probably long before that, whatever it is, just as surely as they will sin after reaching that age.

I never said we were born dead, but Scripture does say we were dead in our trespasses and sins, and even when we were dead in our transgressions, He made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)... When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, for the mind set on the flesh is death, yet if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness... the gospel is veiled to those who are perishing, the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live ... we have passed out of death into life. That is a few verses strung together all verifying the fact we were dead.

So I am unclear of the point you are trying to make, for it seems as though you are trying to say some are righteous when that is the opposite of what Scripture teaches. Also I may be in the minority, certainly I balk when people say Adam was perfect, no such thing was said of him, we are perfected in Christ, and that was THE plan from before the foundation of the world... so that is to say my view may be minority but I think it was inevitable that Adam would sin. He was of the natural world after all. And God certainly knew he would.

James 1:14-15; 1 John 2:16 Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not from the Father but from the world. .

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes I love how respectful you are with others even while disagreeing, you are a good example to me, and I hope you do not think I am being disrespectful, as I am trying to stick to what has been said without introducing too many new ideas, or straying from what the Bible actually says... and perhaps you know my answers tend to a shorter side rather than longer which is opposite of you LOL. In fact when I first asked earlier today and saw your very long response I could not even... as they say LOL heh I was at work and carrying on another convo at pretty much the same time and there was just too much in your post for me to absorb under the circumstances. And really all I wanted to know was what your disagreed with, having indicated you thought my premise wrong. My premise being all people are born with the flesh nature of which it is said in Scripture that NO GOOD THING dwells. My premise being grounded solidly in Scripture. And, as Jesus said, you MUST be born again.

So yes people are prone to sin, their nature inclines them thusly. When Paul says he was alive without the law do you think he means he was alive as in alive in Christ, as it is to be born again, and THEN he died having sinned? Because it is imperative that people be born again of the spirit of God, and so saying he was alive does not look to me that he was alive in any way that is desirable for attaining to life ever after. Please let us leave babies and children out of this discussion. Aside from the fact I do not know the age of accountability it is a certainty that they will sin probably long before that, whatever it is, just as surely as they will sin after reaching that age.

I never said we were born dead, but Scripture does say we were dead in our trespasses and sins, and even when we were dead in our transgressions, He made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)... When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, for the mind set on the flesh is death, yet if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness... the gospel is veiled to those who are perishing, the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live ... we have passed out of death into life. That is a few verses strung together all verifying the fact we were dead.

So I am unclear of the point you are trying to make, for it seems as though you are trying to say some are righteous when that is the opposite of what Scripture teaches. Also I may be in the minority, certainly I balk when people say Adam was perfect, no such thing was said of him, we are perfected in Christ, and that was THE plan from before the foundation of the world... so that is to say my view may be minority but I think it was inevitable that Adam would sin. He was of the natural world after all. And God certainly knew he would.

James 1:14-15; 1 John 2:16 Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not from the Father but from the world. .

No I’ve never felt disrespected by you sis

what I’m saying probably isn’t being communicated well I’m not great at modern communication.

you know how the. I ke says Christ is and has always been and will always be ? How it says he is from everlasting to everlasting ? I’m not saying we don’t need Christ . I’m saying he was there with them in the beginning how do you think Enoch pleased God and walked with him ? Who was he walking with ? How did he not die ? Whose name we’re they calling upon ? He’s always been there to “ make us able “ if we are willing to listen to him .

those are all promises in the gospel sis.

“And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“and Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: and all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:22-24‬ ‭


“By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:5‬ ‭

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭4:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus has always been there with man to make them able we’re able if we listen to his word and believe it’s rejecting it that holds us back

man has always been capable each time he makes a covenant near the end it ends like this

“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Bit this is ten generetions after Adam and Eve and through those generations men were calling in tbe name of the lord , one of them walks with God by faith and never dies but is translated by faith because he pleases God in life it says there . We’re told also that we’re being translated and will escape death. Like Enoch

Another man is called perfect and righteous and God offers to make a new covenant with him if he believes him and builds the ark by faith ect on down the line we’re capable of serving God bit we keep listening to the serpents reasoning why we can’t and don’t need to and aren’t capable of it ( not saying this of you but some Christian’s in the world in general and myself for a long time in tbe ole days )


But it’s right in front of us everything we need the o my tho g is we have to accept it willingly and o ow Gods never going to force us into believing what he’s said we have to reach out in faith

 

[Lafftur]

What is God's requirement for salvation (GRFS)?

What is “kerygma”…

 

[Magenta]

No I’ve never felt disrespected by you sis

what I’m saying probably isn’t being communicated well I’m not great at modern communication.

you know how the. I ke says Christ is and has always been and will always be ? How it says he is from everlasting to everlasting ? I’m not saying we don’t need Christ . I’m saying he was there with them in the beginning how do you think Enoch pleased God and walked with him ? Who was he walking with ? How did he not die ? Whose name we’re they calling upon ? He’s always been there to “ make us able “ if we are willing to listen to him .

those are all promises in the gospel sis.

“And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“and Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: and all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:22-24‬ ‭


“By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:5‬ ‭

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭4:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus has always been there with man to make them able we’re able if we listen to his word and believe it’s rejecting it that holds us back

man has always been capable each time he makes a covenant near the end it ends like this

“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Bit this is ten generetions after Adam and Eve and through those generations men were calling in tbe name of the lord , one of them walks with God by faith and never dies but is translated by faith because he pleases God in life it says there . We’re told also that we’re being translated and will escape death. Like Enoch

Another man is called perfect and righteous and God offers to make a new covenant with him if he believes him and builds the ark by faith ect on down the line we’re capable of serving God bit we keep listening to the serpents reasoning why we can’t and don’t need to and aren’t capable of it ( not saying this of you but some Christian’s in the world in general and myself for a long time in tbe ole days )


But it’s right in front of us everything we need the o my tho g is we have to accept it willingly and o ow Gods never going to force us into believing what he’s said we have to reach out in faith

We do not escape death like Enoch did, though, because we are going to die the first death. We escape the second death.

"Jesus has always been there with man to make them able we’re able if
we listen to his word and believe it’s rejecting it that holds us back"

Interesting. Jesus makes us able? Is that what you are saying? That is what I have
been saying all along. He opens our eyes. Unstops our ears. Circumcises our hearts.
I know some say this happens after one freely chooses while a hater of God to love Him.
Yeah, it makes that much sense! A person enslaved to sin taken captive to the will of the
devil chooses God. As if! LOL. Something has to happen to free us. If the Son sets you free you are free indeed.

Indeed. And that is what Scripture says, also

John 8:36 plus Romans 8:2 If the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death.

 

[Magenta]

What is “kerygma”…

Hello, Lafftur! I just looked it up...

Kerygma: Proclamation of the Gospel
Kerygma is a Greek word that means "proclamation" or "heralding" of a message

the preaching or proclamation of the Christian gospel: ...

Wiki says, Kerygma (from Ancient Greek: κήρυγμα, kḗrygma) is a Greek word used in the New Testament for
"proclamation" (see Luke 4:18-19, Romans 10:14, Gospel of Matthew 3:1). It is related to the Greek verb κηρύσσω
(kērússō), literally meaning "to cry or proclaim as a herald" and being used in the sense of "to proclaim, announce,
preach". Amongst biblical scholars, the term has come to mean the core of the early church's teaching about Jesus.

 

[Lafftur]

Hello, Lafftur! I just looked it up...

Kerygma: Proclamation of the Gospel
Kerygma is a Greek word that means "proclamation" or "heralding" of a message

the preaching or proclamation of the Christian gospel: ...

Wiki says, Kerygma (from Ancient Greek: κήρυγμα, kḗrygma) is a Greek word used in the New Testament for
"proclamation" (see Luke 4:18-19, Romans 10:14, Gospel of Matthew 3:1). It is related to the Greek verb κηρύσσω
(kērússō), literally meaning "to cry or proclaim as a herald" and being used in the sense of "to proclaim, announce,
preach". Amongst biblical scholars, the term has come to mean the core of the early church's teaching about Jesus.

Thank you so much, Magenta!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

We do not escape death like Enoch did, though, because we are going to die the first death. We escape the second death.

"Jesus has always been there with man to make them able we’re able if
we listen to his word and believe it’s rejecting it that holds us back"

Interesting. Jesus makes us able? Is that what you are saying? That is what I have
been saying all along. He opens our eyes. Unstops our ears. Circumcises our hearts.
I know some say this happens after one freely chooses while a hater of God to love Him.
Yeah, it makes that much sense! A person enslaved to sin taken captive to the will of the
devil chooses God. As if! LOL. Something has to happen to free us. If the Son sets you free you are free indeed.

Indeed. And that is what Scripture says, also

John 8:36 plus Romans 8:2 If the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death.

“We do not escape death like Enoch did, though, because we are going to die the first death. We escape the second death.”

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s a condition with a reward never see death ….

“By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:5‬ ‭

“who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:13‬ ‭

“Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: we are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:6, 8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a there’s a difference in being translated and not seeing death because their death was fulfilled in Christs death and they repented and heard and obeyed him and inherited eternal life


But also those who don’t mature and keep his word but believe

“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:40‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if one is already dead or alive and believes they’ll live forever

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬

note how chrirtians are saved by faith ? Called to walk with the lord ? It’s said that we are translated into the kingdom and it’s said if we keep his word we shall never see death

thats patterned after Enoch and his relationship with God before the law came when men still had a relationship with God before it needed reconciliation

 

[Magenta]

“We do not escape death like Enoch did, though, because we are going to die the first death. We escape the second death.”

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s a condition with a reward never see death ….

“By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:5‬ ‭

“who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:13‬ ‭

“Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: we are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:6, 8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a there’s a difference in being translated and not seeing death because their death was fulfilled in Christs death and they repented and heard and obeyed him and inherited eternal life

But also those who don’t mature and keep his word but believe

“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:40‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if one is already dead or alive and believes they’ll live forever

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬

note how christians are saved by faith ? Called to walk with the lord ? It’s said that we are translated into the kingdom and it’s said if we keep his word we shall never see death

thats patterned after Enoch and his relationship with God before the law came when men still had a relationship with God before it needed reconciliation

Even Jesus saw death and He did that on our behalf out of His great love for us ... and if there is no death then why have a resurrection? Surely you are not denying our resurrectuon from death at the end of this age?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Even Jesus saw death and He did that on our behalf out of His great love for us ... and if there is no death then why have a resurrection? Surely you are not denying our resurrectuon from death at the end of this age?

Sister did Jesus say this ?

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and does it say this of Enoch ?

“By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:5‬ ‭

sure sister Jesus faced death for every man and he promises that if we keep his word we will never face it

“But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭

Enoch never died Jesus says in the gospel that if we repent and keep his word we also will not see death the same phrase used for Enoch

Do you notice anything about the beginning and the gospel ?

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1-2, 4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus was always able to save from death it’s just hidden in the beginning of the Bible

The beginning

“And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel was before the law and after under the law is when men were made blind and deaf and condemned beofre tbat it wasn’t so it was just like the gospel God was with them speaking life to them men like Enoch walked with him , just like Peter walked with him

 

[GWH]

I've already stated that the reason Jesus came was to provide atonement...shed blood on the cross for the remission of sin...and fulfill the law...to provide righteousness. This is what God required for salvation. The only other thing necessary for salvation is the grace of God to come to an individual in space and time wherein God reveals what He has done for them in Christ.
Everything else is simply the response of man and is the consequence of salvation, and not its cause. So while the responses of men very often testify to the reality of an inward and saving work of God, the actual responses aren't required for salvation, but merely attend it.

I agree, so now I ask whether you agree with what I posted as my answer, because you seemed to reject it at one point:

HB 2:14-18, "Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death--that is, the devil... For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way... that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted."

HB 5:8-9, "Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him."

 

[Cameron143]

I agree, so now I ask whether you agree with what I posted as my answer, because you seemed to reject it at one point:

HB 2:14-18, "Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death--that is, the devil... For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way... that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted."

HB 5:8-9, "Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him."

Yes I agree with scripture. My point, however, was that God Himself took care of all that He required.

 

[GWH]

What is “kerygma”…

Hi L,

I like to denote GRFS with the Greek word kerygma, meaning proclamation or preaching, referring to the good news (Gospel) concerning salvation to heaven and from a just hell (the DOD, cf. RM 1:16, GL 1:6-12, CL 1:21-23).

This Gospel was preached by Peter (in ACTS 2:22-24) and summarized by Paul (in 1CR 15:1-8). The salient points include: Jesus was a man, accredited by God (to be Messiah), who died on a cross, but who was raised or resurrected from the dead.

 

[GWH]

Yes I agree with scripture. My point, however, was that God Himself took care of all that He required.

Okay, so what point(s) of the elaborated kerygma do you think God does not provide/require us to believe? (Reposted below for y'all's convenience :^)

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (DT 6:4, JN 3:16, 2THS 1:6), who is both able (2TM 1:12) and willing (1TM 2:3-4) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (RM 3:23, 2TM 3:2-4, CL 3:5), miserable (GL 5:19-21), and hopeless (EPH 2:12) when they reject God’s salvation or DOD (JN 3:18).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ or the way (means of providing salvation) that God has chosen (JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31, PHP 2:9-11), although pre-NT truthseekers could/can learn a proto-gospel via general revelation combined with conscience.
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning God’s Word everyone cooperates fully with His will (RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).

 

[Cameron143]

Okay, so what point(s) of the elaborated kerygma do you think God does not provide/require us to believe? (Reposted below for y'all's convenience :^)

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (DT 6:4, JN 3:16, 2THS 1:6), who is both able (2TM 1:12) and willing (1TM 2:3-4) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (RM 3:23, 2TM 3:2-4, CL 3:5), miserable (GL 5:19-21), and hopeless (EPH 2:12) when they reject God’s salvation or DOD (JN 3:18).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ or the way (means of providing salvation) that God has chosen (JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31, PHP 2:9-11), although pre-NT truthseekers could/can learn a proto-gospel via general revelation combined with conscience.
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning God’s Word everyone cooperates fully with His will (RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).

If you read the post again, the only other requirement is the grace of God. All that comes after this is simply the product of grace and not the cause of salvation. In this regard they aren't required for salvation.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes I agree with scripture. My point, however, was that God Himself took care of all that He required.

does what Jesus did for us in the gospel to provide salvation , erase what he said to us in the gospel about salvation ? In your view I mean ?

 

[Magenta]

Sister did Jesus say this ?

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and does it say this of Enoch ?

“By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:5‬ ‭

sure sister Jesus faced death for every man and he promises that if we keep his word we will never face it

“But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭

Enoch never died Jesus says in the gospel that if we repent and keep his word we also will not see death the same phrase used for Enoch

Do you notice anything about the beginning and the gospel ?

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1-2, 4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus was always able to save from death it’s just hidden in the beginning of the Bible

The beginning

“And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel was before the law and after under the law is when men were made blind and deaf and condemned beofre tbat it wasn’t so it was just like the gospel God was with them speaking life to them men like Enoch walked with him , just like Peter walked with him

Clearly there are different meanings and definitions and contexts nfor the word death. If we never died we would not need to be resurrected. I don't think we should ever say that Jesus never died for us. PS I'm at work so I will not be able to respond for a while

 

[Cameron143]

does what Jesus did for us in the gospel to provide salvation , erase what he said to us in the gospel about salvation ? In your view I mean ?

Not at all. All those things mentioned are attendant in salvation. They simply aren't the the cause. God's grace is the cause, and that based on the life and death of Christ.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Not at all. All those things mentioned are attendant in salvation. They simply aren't the the cause. God's grace is the cause, and that based on the life and death of Christ.

So if Jesus says this ?

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Perishing means you’re gonna be saved ? And repentance is not anything we actually need to consider ? Or this

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Im Asking if this no longer applies in your view because Jesus died for our sins after he said it ? Or do you agree with what Jesus said about what happens if Christian’s don’t forgive others ?

Essentially my question is “ does Jesus word about what will save us , and what will condemn us still apply after he did the work that was for all sin? Does his word still apply to believers if he’s telling them a condition

 

[Cameron143]

So if Jesus says this ?

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Perishing means you’re gonna be saved ? And repentance is not anything we actually need to consider ? Or this

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Im Asking if this no longer applies in your view because Jesus died for our sins after he said it ? Or do you agree with what Jesus said about what happens if Christian’s don’t forgive others ?

Essentially my question is “ does Jesus word about what will save us , and what will condemn us still apply after he did the work that was for all sin? Does his word still apply to believers if he’s telling them a condition

I'm not saying a person who is saved will not repent. I believe he will. But I believe he does so in response to God's grace and not in order to receive God's grace.