the Sabbath

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Paul said not to make law void. Rom 3:31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The law isn't made void through faith, it was made void by the cross. The word void in your verse is the same Greek word as abolished below, which means to be made entirely useless. The law has been made entirely useless because since we are dead to the law and its demands it no longer serves a useful purpose apart from guidance and edification. The enmity and barrier of the 10 commandments on stone tablets hidden in the ark of the covenant beneath the mercy seat was nullified through the cross, and as a consequence we now have entrance into God's presence.

Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; Ephesians 2:15​

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

[QUOTE="SabbathBlessing, post: 5397403, member: 327991"]If we are walking in Christ righteousness Psa 119:172 we would not be breaking the law and sinning 1 Peter 2:21-22 we would be walking just as Jesus walked for our example 1 John 2:5-6[/QUOTE]

We don't break Christ's law when walking in the spirit because Christ's law is love. It's impossible for dead people to sin against laws. Those in Christ are dead to the law of Moses. You clearly don't believe that.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

But if we sin ever, the law is for us, because without the law, there is no need for God’s grace to forgive us of our sins for breaking His law 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 James 2:10-12

You really are proclaiming another gospel. Christ is our advocate, not the law.

 

[Magenta]

Everything God has ever said hangs on two commandments that can be summarized in one commandment. He didn't say those 2 commandments are a foundation to build upon with lots of additional commandments, but that all commandments derive from those two. You could cut loose all of the other commandments and you would still have those 2 commandments.

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Matthew 22:37-40​

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Those two commandments are summarized into one. How many times does this have to be repeated until it sinks into stiffnecked hearts?

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:12​

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Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. Romans 13:8​

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Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. Romans 13:10​

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For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Galatians 5:14​

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If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: James 2:8​

Matthew 22:37-39

Matthew 7:12

Galatians 5:14, Ecclesiastes 12:13, Romans 13:10b The entire law is fulfilled in a single decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” When all has been heard, the conclusion of the matter is this: Fear God and keep His commandments, because this is the whole duty of man. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

You really are proclaiming another gospel. Christ is our advocate, not the law.

No one said the law was our advocate, I am not sure where you get things from.

The law shows us our sins…..

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Basically the law is like a mirror. We won’t know we are dirty unless we can see it. It also shows our need for Jesus who has the solution,

The law is also so we are not depending on our own righteousness but on God’s

Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of Your word,
For all Your commandments are righteousness.

Jesus is our Advocate and our High Priest when we sin we can go to Him when we repent and confess- which means a change of direction

(Grace)
1 John 1: 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

And when Jesus heals He says Go And sin no more- John 8:11 He puts us right back under the law.

Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21, we are not saved in sin Heb 10:26-30

Love to God, our neighbor and sin never went undefined in the scriptures. Sadly most use their own versions and think its good enough, but only God’s version matters, He tells us but sadly not many people believe Mat 19:17-19 Mat 5:19-30 Mat 15:3-13 Mark 7:7-13 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 James 2:10-12 1 John 5:3 John 14:15 Rom 3:31 Rev 22:14-15 Exo 20:6 etc

 

[TMS]

The law has been made entirely useless because since we are dead to the law and its demands it no longer serves a useful purpose apart from guidance and edification. The enmity and barrier of the 10 commandments on stone tablets hidden in the ark of the covenant beneath the mercy seat was nullified through the cross, and as a consequence we now have entrance into God's presence.

"The law has been made entirely useless because since we are dead to the law and its demands it no longer serves a useful purpose apart from guidance and edification"
The law is what points out sin.... guidance and edification... that is not useless.

To be made void mean they are useless, but Paul said we establish the law.

To establish it mean we live by it. We obey it.
The motive why we obey it is a good question, and it should never be to gain favor or gain salvation. But is the 10 commandments void or not.

No. we should not desire to sin (the transgression of the law) when we love the Lord.

1Jn 3:4-6
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Jesus wants to free us from sin.
Both passed sins and future sins. Both justification and sanctification.

Does justification make the law void or does it make the penalty of transgressing the law void.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The law shows us our sins

Now the holy spirit shows us our sins

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Now the holy spirit shows us our sins

The law shows us our sin as already shown from the scripture. Rom 7:7 Rom 3:20

The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin
John 16: 8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

if we have not harden our heart to His voice Heb 3:7-8

The commandments and the Holy Spirit work in harmony not against.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Does justification make the law void or does it make the penalty of transgressing the law void.

The law is without power, ie, entirely useless, if it doesn't have the ability to condemn. Do old laws that regulate horse traffic on public roads impact those who drive cars? Of course not. Such laws have become entirely useless, obsolete. Same with the 10 commandments

 

[Inquisitor]

If you see a beautiful woman and are tempted to do something with her that you shouldn't is it God keeping you from doing it, or yourself?

Once you look at her with lust you have already failed.

That's before you get to multiply the species.

 

[Inquisitor]

You are correct in that we are saved by grace.. I don't believe anyone on this forum has said that they are saved by keeping the law.

So Do not presume that I keep the sabbath to be saved.
We are saved by faith through grace alone.
Faith in the righteousness of Jesus alone.

But I ask you.... do we continue to sin because Jesus paid it all?
Do we make void the law because of grace?
Do we transgress the law and continue to sin because Jesus has given us a perfect robe of righteousness.

No

The motive for keeping the law and obeying the commandments is not to be saved but because I, we, you, LOVE Jesus.

The reason I choose not to murder or steal or take the Lord's name in vain is because I Love the Lord.

Rom 13:10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Gentiles never had the law to begin with so the Gentile Christians walk by the spirit.

 

[Inquisitor]

Which law.... read the context.
Hebrews is very much about the cerimonial laws. The laws that are shadows. Don't say they are all the same or all the laws are included because then the bible controdicts itself.

Col 2:14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Paul said this law was nailed to the cross...

JESUS said He did not come to destroy the law. Mat 5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Paul said not to make law void. Rom 3:31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

the laws are not all the same. You need to read the context to understand which law is being talked about.

To support your claim we need the verses that state 'ceremonial law'.

You need the scripture that says 'ceremonial law' and not some twisted interpretation.

Paul is talking to the Jews in Romans 3 not the Gentiles.

 

[Cameron143]

Gentiles never had the law to begin with so the Gentile Christians walk by the spirit.

Romans 6:17.

 

[Inquisitor]

Please explain.... ?

Do you fail to obey sometimes? Do you constantly perfectly obey? Or do you constantly always disobey?

In my own power I would fail constantly
But with Jesus we can overcome.

What is wrong with what I said?

If your praying without ceasing you don't have any time to sin.

Boast in Christ not in yourself.

 

[Magenta]

The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin
John 16: 8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Christians are not "the world." The world is unbelievers. The Holy Spirit convicts believers of righteousness. Where does
it say in the Bible that the Holy Spirit convicts believers of sin or pronounces believers guilty of sin when they sin?

 

[TMS]

Christians are not "the world." The world is unbelievers. The Holy Spirit convicts believers of righteousness. Where does
it say in the Bible that the Holy Spirit convicts believers of sin or pronounces believers guilty of sin when they sin?

We all have a conscience, some harden their conscience and some hear the soft voice of God talking to them.

Joh 16:8-11 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Heb 12:5-6 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

1Ki 19:12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

There are many examples of God talking to His saints, convicting them of sin.

The Holy Spirit wants to talk to all of us but we choose if we listen or not. To those that have ears to hear.

 

[TMS]

Now the holy spirit shows us our sins

The Holy Spirit shows us yes but how does He show us?

The word and the law.

The Holy Spirit convicts us of the truth.

The Holy Spirit can not convict us if we are ignorant of what is right. The law makes it plan.

The law reveals right and wrong.

The Spirit convicts us.

 

[TMS]

Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; Ephesians 2:15

Ordinances = Strong's Definition: From the base of G1380; a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical): - decree, ordinance.

The ceremonial laws were abolished.
The ceremonial laws are not the same as the moral laws.

The ten commandments were spoken by God and are about loving each other and loving God. The cerimonial laws were about dealing with sin and pointing forward to Christ.
There is a difference. You can not prove that these laws in Eph 2:15 are the 10 commandments.

 

[TMS]

To support your claim we need the verses that state 'ceremonial law'.

You need the scripture that says 'ceremonial law' and not some twisted interpretation.

Paul is talking to the Jews in Romans 3 not the Gentiles.

We need the verse that states that Paul is only talking to the Jews in Rom 3.

In Col 2:14 ordinance = Strong's Definition: From the base of G1380; a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical): - decree, ordinance.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

To blot out this law and nail it to the cross means it was made void and no longer has any purpose.

If it was the 10 commandments then it controdicts the rest of the Bible.

Jas 2:10-12
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

And Roms 3, 6, 7:12, 13:10,

If it was the ceremonial laws contained in ordinances. The laws about offerings and the sanctuary etc. Then it does not contradict the rest of the Bible.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
This law was a shadow and was clearly about the sacrifices.
These laws were shadows of what Jesus would do and of the heavenly things.

They were nailed to the cross because Jesus fulfilled the requirements..

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Jesus has always been the way.

The old ceremonial laws were removed. Not the moral laws.

 

[TMS]

If your praying without ceasing you don't have any time to sin.

Boast in Christ not in yourself.

I can not do anything good myself.

Rom 7:22-25
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

I don't claim to be perfect

But I do aim to be better, and more like Jesus. Jesus perfectly obeied the 10 commandments including the sabbath law.