The Return to Sanity

[Mem]

Are we goin na let the alligator breakdance now? Oh no, let's go! craycray?

Should we be trying to understand crazy? A common euphemism for it is a "mental breakdown," so I'm assuming there is, indeed, hope for a cognitive buildup.

Isn't sanity attainable after a mental breakdown?
Is 'going crazy' a sort of built in defense mechanism that engages to mitigate the risk of further damage to the psyche?

Brick and Mortar sanitoriums have been closed down due to abuses, and I take it is because those professionals must not have had a true remedy for returning their patients to a sufficient measure of health. my intention for this thread is to be a virtual sanitorium, a safe room, because I think everyone is to one degree or another, a little or a lot, crazy.

There is a site I visit that I go to every now and then, especially once I notice I might've gone bonkers.

I go there because I know the teacher will bring me back to sanity. That is, he reminds that returning to the reality of God's "for me" love, and I'm convince that believing this is pivotal in achieving my mental health and disregarding it exacerbates my mental illness.

"...they found the man...in his right mind; and they were afraid" Luke 8:35; Mark 5:15

"...and He healed them." Matthew 4:24

I'm have loved ones struggling in this area, but I'm a novice in advising or even generating discussions about it. So, if there is anything you would like to bring up within this category, please feel welcome to do so.

 

[Mem]

I didn't categorize this thread in the natural health forum although it might qualify as spiritual health may have a correlation to natural health.
However, I'd really like to focus on a spiritual avenue to natural health, because I believe this is the way which would endure even if, still, it need be 'maintained.'
Considering the Judaic impression of "shalom" encompasses a mind, body, and soul well-being along with the Christian influence that our brokenness is completed in Christ, I believe we can achieve intact in him regardless of what we may be missing in reference to our physical state.
Much like how our body engages in the event of the introduction of an infection, though sometimes it can be overwhelmed by it, isn't there a "call to duty" of the spirit so that there is no actual "breaking down" in the case of health of the mind in Christ?

 

[Eli1]

Thank you for opening this topic. I will add here from time to time.

Regarding psychology. Where i come from, this profession is considered fake or laughable.
Lessons are learned in life and everyone needs a lot of mental strength to come around to change a situation or to deal with a situation.
In our case we are blessed to have come to Christ but many others didn't. They struggled until the end, with no hope in sight for their anxieties, addictions or mental health issues.
For the others who were blessed to choose Christ, i see a sense of peace which no medication can give you.

In the Western medicine the holistic approach exists but it's separated. These departments don't talk to each-other in this country because of many variables such as insurance companies, profit and lawsuits. This is why you don't see a priest with many patients praying. They're considered separate things here.
The holistic approach is that the body, mind and soul are one. Meaning, you're not a bunch of cells and you're not an idea either without a body. You're a whole entity with many parts, spiritual and physical.
So in the case of cancer patients, many doctors treat you as a lump of cells.
This is where you, as a patient need to find mental strength and unfortunately you have to do it on your own.
Basically, you need to find the professionals from these two areas (regular medicine and natural medicine) and treat them as sort of "mechanics" who are supposed to do their job but it's you "the operator" who has control of your mind and you only accept their professional help for their discipline, everything else that they say outside of their profession you throw it in the garbage bin.
Your job after having these two mechanics work for you (who are not cheap by the way and that's another subject) is to then come to some sort of understanding about your spiritual side and your purpose here. This is where our Faith in Christ comes in.
If you choose Christ then a sense of peace should give you the cure that no medication can.

 

[Mem]

In the Western medicine the holistic approach exists but it's separated. These departments don't talk to each-other in this country because of many variables such as insurance companies, profit and lawsuits. This is why you don't see a priest with many patients praying. They're considered separate things here.

It would seem a (truly) mentally stable society would be profitable to its community, but it seems to me that only a small sector of the community's interest is actually valued, i.e. those variables of it that you've mentioned, so, naturally, its lucrativity is vehemently guarded against any sort of competition.

 

[Eli1]

It would seem a (truly) mentally stable society would be profitable to its community, but it seems to me that only a small sector of the community's interest is actually valued, i.e. those variables of it that you've mentioned, so, naturally, its lucrativity is vehemently guarded against any sort of competition.

Absolutely.
In U.S., universal healthcare is considered a bad thing or a "communist move" for cultural reasons but as you said, there is nothing but gain when you have a healthy society. So when you invest in health, with the aim to cure diseases and give the cures to all your citizens, then you have a better country in every other aspect.
But this is not how reality is. The reality is that you need to be like the salmon who swims upstream with all its strength beating the odds to reach the destination. So you have to go against many barriers and walls by yourself. You have to go against the grain.
And a lot of times this is a lonely journey, but when you have friends and family to help you then it's even more of a blessing for which you need to thank God even more that you usually might do.

I work in a lot of hospitals and the aim of the doctors now is to treat a lot of these diseases like cancer, Alzheimer's as sort of diabetes.
Now mind you, no one is aiming for a cure with some sort of a vaccine like we have done to eradicate many diseases since WW2, because cancer it's a billion dollar industry.
One cancer treatment for a patient costs an average of $80.000 per session. A patient gets an average of 5-10 sessions and on a average day you have 100 patients on one floor receiving medication. You do the math if you find a cure for cancer on how much insurance/pharmaceutical companies lose.
However, there is hope with the new generation of doctors who are a bit idealistic for our own good, who are trying to eradicate such problems using gene therapy.

But ultimately, these remain "mechanics" because even the idealistic ones are turned off by the idea of God and will remain atheist for most of their lives.

 

[Mem]

But ultimately, these remain "mechanics" because even the idealistic ones are turned off by the idea of God and will remain atheist for most of their lives.

That's the disease that I'm interested in "shining the light" on. What use is there in obtaining a perfectly working lamp if we have no oil to light it?

 

[Cameron143]

Absolutely.
In U.S., universal healthcare is considered a bad thing or a "communist move" for cultural reasons but as you said, there is nothing but gain when you have a healthy society. So when you invest in health, with the aim to cure diseases and give the cures to all your citizens, then you have a better country in every other aspect.
But this is not how reality is. The reality is that you need to be like the salmon who swims upstream with all its strength beating the odds to reach the destination. So you have to go against many barriers and walls by yourself. You have to go against the grain.
And a lot of times this is a lonely journey, but when you have friends and family to help you then it's even more of a blessing for which you need to thank God even more that you usually might do.

I work in a lot of hospitals and the aim of the doctors now is to treat a lot of these diseases like cancer, Alzheimer's as sort of diabetes.
Now mind you, no one is aiming for a cure with some sort of a vaccine like we have done to eradicate many diseases since WW2, because cancer it's a billion dollar industry.
One cancer treatment for a patient costs an average of $80.000 per session. A patient gets an average of 5-10 sessions and on a average day you have 100 patients on one floor receiving medication. You do the math if you find a cure for cancer on how much insurance/pharmaceutical companies lose.
However, there is hope with the new generation of doctors who are a bit idealistic for our own good, who are trying to eradicate such problems using gene therapy.

But ultimately, these remain "mechanics" because even the idealistic ones are turned off by the idea of God and will remain atheist for most of their lives.

Universal healthcare is great in theory. Unfortunately, it is run by government, which, quite frankly, has ulterior motivations in whatever they touch. This is the same argument that was made for public education, which now serves unions and bureaucrats at the expense of children.

 

[Eli1]

That's the disease that I'm interested in "shining the light" on. What use is there in obtaining a perfectly working lamp if we have no oil to light it?

A lot of these Revivals in history are a bit outside of our hands but more in God's hands.
The Bible has a lot to say about unbelief, the no excuses of God's evidence in nature and pride but we can only do what we can to show the people around us about what it means to have Peace in Christ, because we can't reach everyone.
This is where on some cases, for a lot of tragedies there is a silver lining. In the of Covid i was hopping that there would be a change of hearts in people in the world, and in some there is a change of hearts. Many re-evaluated their goals and purpose in life while they were isolated for a year at home. Maybe turned to faith in God.
The planet looked a lot clearer too when no one was polluting the skies with smoke.
But since many are slaves to sin, they got back into the habits quickly.
I think that God sends us these trials to wake us up but not everyone keeps their ears open.

 

[Eli1]

Universal healthcare is great in theory. Unfortunately, it is run by government, which, quite frankly, has ulterior motivations in whatever they touch. This is the same argument that was made for public education, which now serves unions and bureaucrats at the expense of children.

I am aware of this that the government is dysfunctional but since the government has the money then add healthcare to its list of dysfunctions so it can help people with the part that works correctly.
This "dysfunctional" argument is not very genuine because it's ultimately about ideologies such as Conservative ideals which is based on cultural roots.

It's like asking Turkey or Greece to get rid of baklava despite knowing that it's going to kill many people with diabetes. It just won't happen. This is why i understand gun-enthusiasts.
What i don't like is non-genuine arguments. There's nothing wrong in saying "i like something" just don't come up with other arguments that are not honest. I like a lot of things that i don't want to be taken away from me and i am honest about saying "i like them" without coming up with weak arguments to defend my unhealthy habit in the things that i like.

 

[Cameron143]

I am aware of this that the government is dysfunctional but since the government has the money then add healthcare to its list of dysfunctions so it can help people with the part that works correctly.
This "dysfunctional" argument is not very genuine because it's ultimately about ideologies such as Conservative ideals which is based on cultural roots.

It's like asking Turkey or Greece to get rid of baklava despite knowing that it's going to kill many people with diabetes. It just won't happen. This is why i understand gun-enthusiasts.
What i don't like is non-genuine arguments. There's nothing wrong in saying "i like something" just don't come up with other arguments that are not honest. I like a lot of things that i don't want to be taken away from me and i am honest about saying "i like them" without coming up with weak arguments to defend my unhealthy habit in the things that i like.

I would disagree. If government wasn't involved in the healthcare industry, including making laws to favor particular constituencies, healthcare would be largely affordable for all. Laws that favor huge companies and not the average healthcare consumer are what is driving the problem. And this is what is driving most the problems we are having in areas of life that government touches.
The idea that it is cultural is overplayed. We have socialized energy already. Areas in society that require monopolies and economies of scale are already recognized. We just differ over whether healthcare should be one of those. I don't believe so because I believe, just as with education, we do not need government in healthcare. We just need to get government corruption and corrupt lobbyists out of the process.

 

[Eli1]

I would disagree.

Okay.
This is why i live in Massachusetts because they have universal healthcare and everything has been working fine.
In fact people from other states abuse our system and come here to get free healthcare and then go home after they got their CT scan, treatments and post-op medications.

 

[Cameron143]

Okay.
This is why i live in Massachusetts because they have universal healthcare and everything has been working fine.
In fact people from other states abuse our system and come here to get free healthcare and then go home after they got their CT scan, treatments and post-op medications.

People from other nations come to America to get healthcare as well.

Let me ask you: where are healthcare breakthroughs coming from?

 

[Eli1]

People from other nations come to America to get healthcare as well.

Let me ask you: where are healthcare breakthroughs coming from?

Yes of course, i meet many other millionaires from other nations who come here and pay for the best treatment.
Northeast is usually considered the hub for breakthrough medical inventions.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes of course, i meet many other millionaires from other nations who come here and pay for the best treatment.
Northeast is usually considered the hub for breakthrough medical inventions.

And are the people coming up with these breakthroughs doing so because we have socialized medicine or freemarket principles?

 

[Eli1]

And are the people coming up with these breakthroughs doing so because we have socialized medicine or freemarket principles?

They are doing this because of the free market of course.
But what does this have to do with citizens getting free healthcare that they get now in my state?
Your questions and point are always confusing.

 

[Lynx]

Thank you for opening this topic. I will add here from time to time.

Regarding psychology. Where i come from, this profession is considered fake or laughable.
Lessons are learned in life and everyone needs a lot of mental strength to come around to change a situation or to deal with a situation.
In our case we are blessed to have come to Christ but many others didn't. They struggled until the end, with no hope in sight for their anxieties, addictions or mental health issues.
For the others who were blessed to choose Christ, i see a sense of peace which no medication can give you.

In the Western medicine the holistic approach exists but it's separated. These departments don't talk to each-other in this country because of many variables such as insurance companies, profit and lawsuits. This is why you don't see a priest with many patients praying. They're considered separate things here.
The holistic approach is that the body, mind and soul are one. Meaning, you're not a bunch of cells and you're not an idea either without a body. You're a whole entity with many parts, spiritual and physical.
So in the case of cancer patients, many doctors treat you as a lump of cells.
This is where you, as a patient need to find mental strength and unfortunately you have to do it on your own.
Basically, you need to find the professionals from these two areas (regular medicine and natural medicine) and treat them as sort of "mechanics" who are supposed to do their job but it's you "the operator" who has control of your mind and you only accept their professional help for their discipline, everything else that they say outside of their profession you throw it in the garbage bin.
Your job after having these two mechanics work for you (who are not cheap by the way and that's another subject) is to then come to some sort of understanding about your spiritual side and your purpose here. This is where our Faith in Christ comes in.
If you choose Christ then a sense of peace should give you the cure that no medication can.

It seems to me like this holistic approach, incorporating religion into the cure, would only work in two very specific situations.

1. In a country with an official state religion. Then there would be no quibbling over which one to use.

2. In a country with religious freedom, it would only work if you provided a whole lot of religious options, like every denomination of Christianity and every other religion, including various Satan worships, so nobody would complain about their religion being left out.

 

[Eli1]

It seems to me like this holistic approach, incorporating religion into the cure, would only work in two very specific situations.

1. In a country with an official state religion. Then there would be no quibbling over which one to use.

2. In a country with religious freedom, it would only work if you provided a whole lot of religious options, like every denomination of Christianity and every other religion, including various Satan worships, so nobody would complain about their religion being left out.

A lot of these things can be done on a cultural basis not law basis.
For example Greece is 90% orthodox Christian but they don't have anything in their government saying that they are Christian.
USA claims to be 60% Christian.

So having a priest in a hospital would be a good idea in US. I mean some do. I have seen them, but it's sort of abandoned. Nobody prioritizes it.
The hospital is essentially a machine of triaging people so nobody wants to add the priest variable to ruin their process for monetary or lawsuit reasons which i guess it always comes down to money.
And nobody is going to train the doctors either on how to be more "spiritual" with people.
And of course the doctor's hands are tied to insurances which drive the process. They can't give you an x-ray until you've tried antibiotics, because it's cheaper.

 

[Cameron143]

They are doing this because of the free market of course.
But what does this have to do with citizens getting free healthcare that they get now in my state?
Your questions and point are always confusing.

First, there is no such thing as free anything. Someone always pays. Tax rates in Massachusetts are exorbitant.
Second, socializing medicine always limits care. Wealthy people still pay for care beyond what most have access to. Obama's answer to a young lady inquiring about a pacemaker for her aging grandmother was that her grandmother would be given drugs to keep her from suffering. Rationing is always the end of socialized medicine and some bureaucrat always ends up as the overseer of life and death. If you are comfortable with that, I'm ok with that. Everyone is free to choose. But if you want continued advancement in medicine, the freemarket is the only way.

 

[Eli1]

First, there is no such thing as free anything. Someone always pays. Tax rates in Massachusetts are exorbitant.
Second, socializing medicine always limits care. Wealthy people still pay for care beyond what most have access to. Obama's answer to a young lady inquiring about a pacemaker for her aging grandmother was that her grandmother would be given drugs to keep her from suffering. Rationing is always the end of socialized medicine and some bureaucrat always ends up as the overseer of life and death. If you are comfortable with that, I'm ok with that. Everyone is free to choose. But if you want continued advancement in medicine, the freemarket is the only way.

This post shows that you’re a conservative and that you can’t discuss things beyond your ideology.
It’s a bit about self awareness actually.
Because you start with a game of words like “nothing is free” which of course is something that I am well aware of. We, the taxpayer pays for everything.
The problem here is that you neglect to address why the army pays 10 times higher the prices that we pay on our daily lives but again that’s something that you’re not able to talk about because of your conservative ideals. Because again, we the taxpayer pay for a lot of government dysfunctions.

The tax rates in any state are in relation to wages.
In 30 years I have seen nothing but an increased cost of living.
Again, something you can’t come to terms with because of your ideology.
Socializing medicine never ever limits care because other people from other states come here because it’s free and the state pays for their costs or we the taxpayers pay for their costs and guess what? No decrease on my standard of living either despite of this.

So I guess the point here is , why are you even trying to have a discussion about this topic if you’re unable to reach the middle ground?

 

[Cameron143]

This post shows that you’re a conservative and that you can’t discuss things beyond your ideology.
It’s a bit about self awareness actually.
Because you start with a game of words like “nothing is free” which of course is something that I am well aware of. We, the taxpayer pays for everything.
The problem here is that you neglect to address why the army pays 10 times higher the prices that we pay on our daily lives but again that’s something that you’re not able to talk about because of your conservative ideals. Because again, we the taxpayer pay for a lot of government dysfunctions.

The tax rates in any state are in relation to wages.
In 30 years I have seen nothing but an increased cost of living.
Again, something you can’t come to terms with because of your ideology.
Socializing medicine never ever limits care because other people from other states come here because it’s free and the state pays for their costs or we the taxpayers pay for their costs and guess what? No decrease on my standard of living either despite of this.

So I guess the point here is , why are you even trying to have a discussion about this topic if you’re unable to reach the middle ground?

I didn't realize the purpose of discussion was to change one's views, but to consider other arguments yet undiscovered. I sincerely appreciate your view even though I disagree with you, and thank you for sharing it.
You seemed to have become annoyed over the way I presented my view, so perhaps closing the discussion is best. And my apologies. This wasn't my aim.