the Sabbath

[Cameron143]

Read the two verses you missed before Rom 8:7-8

Salvation is by grace through faith Eph 2:8

First, an individual can be indwelt by the Spirit and still act in the flesh. Second, salvation isn't conditioned upon faith. Faith is a result where genuine salvation takes place. In other words, faith attends salvation but doesn't cause it.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

First, an individual can be indwelt by the Spirit and still act in the flesh. Second, salvation isn't conditioned upon faith. Faith is a result where genuine salvation takes place. In other words, faith attends salvation but doesn't cause it.

1. Rom 8:7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

When we do not subject ourselves to God's law- allow God to be God- we are an enmity against God and walking the flesh. So if we are fighting against obedience to God's law, its not a good sign.


2. Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,


3.But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

I'm not sure how we are going to receive salvation if we can't please Him.

Those with faith live differently than those who don't

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

 

[Cameron143]

1. Rom 8:7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

When we do not subject ourselves to God's law- allow God to be God- we are an enmity against God and walking the flesh. So if we are fighting against obedience to God's law, its not a good spot to be in.


2. Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,


3.But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

I'm not sure who we are going to receive salvation if we can't please Him.

Those with faith live differently than those who don't/

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Sure those who possess faith should operate in it, as should those who are indwelt with the Spirit. But this is my point from the beginning. We should walk in the Spirit. We don't cooperate with God by performing the commandments. Rather, we cooperate by yielding to Him living them through us.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Sure those who possess faith should operate in it, as should those who are indwelt with the Spirit. But this is my point from the beginning. We should walk in the Spirit. We don't cooperate with God by performing the commandments. Rather, we cooperate by yielding to Him living them through us.

Sorry, yes, we do need to cooperate with God, He does not force us to obey Him. He is at the door, we need to open it. He will not force us to obey, why its our decision.

Rom 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Heb 3:7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,


Why receiving the Spirit is conditional

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

No one walking in the Spirit is arguing about obedience to His law. Paul said it was dishonoring God Rom 2:22-23, Jesus said it was worshipping in vain Mat 15:3-14

 

[vassal]

People who believe in God and understand scripture at different levels isn't lawlessness.

There have been and will be Christians, who may believe one thing about scripture. Then 20 years later have a completely different belief about it. God has patience for everybody's comprehension abilities and that can grow overtime.

Lawlessness is lawlessness there are no intermediates. We are obedient to God's will or not, we all have free will. But I agree God changes our hearts over time when we get closer and are more opened to his will, God is extremely patient but has a limit, remember the story of Jezebel;

Revelation 2:20-23 (KJV):
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Refusing obstinately to change is a FATAL flaw.

 

[vassal]

1. "Why does God have to repeat Himself for one to obey as if God in the OT is a different God in the New Testament When He says I do not change." God does not change, but He says that His first covenant was fulfilled and superseded by the Gospel of Christ.

2. "The fact we see the Sabbath mentioned over 60 times in the NT shows it never ended." It took awhile for the new covenant parameters to sink in, and some folks still don't quite get it.

3. "No where does scripture say God abrogated His Sabbath commandment." And no where does God say a lot of things that would clarify many issues, such as "Abortion should be punished by stoning", or "The pacifists are correct, so all soldiers should resign."

And this raises a random question, what does the absence of clear and concise pronouncements by Scripture on such matters indicate?

In your item one, what is your idea of the "Gospel of Christ," I would like to know, thank you.

 

[vassal]

If it's so plain, how does Jesus not know His own sheep? Was He mistaken? Did He know them?
The individuals in the passage may have made a big deal of their allegiance to Him with their mouths, but not with their lives. Otherwise, their profession would have matched their actions. They did not. The worked wickedness. No different from many throughout history who draw nigh to God with their lips while their hearts are far from Him.

you do not get it Jesus said HE know his sheep, the people he refers to are some who pretend to follow his commandments but do not, this is the whole point of this verse. Jesus will cast them out, remember this..

 

[vassal]

Not keeping commandments is evidence that someone isn't saved, not that they are. But no one ever has been saved by keeping the law.

Jesus saved all of us by being fateful and keeping the Commandments, we should follow Him also.

 

[Gideon300]

you do not get it Jesus said HE know his sheep, the people he refers to are some who pretend to follow his commandments but do not, this is the whole point of this verse. Jesus will cast them out, remember this..

Sure, live u7nder the Old Covenant with all its rules and regulations. Oh, you can't. The temple has been destroyed. Ever wonder why God allowed this? Where are the tablets of stone now? If they were so vital, would God not have ensured their survival. Try reading the rest of the Bible. You will find that the Law is a shadow. I'll live in the light, thanks all the same.

The Law was put in charge of us to lead us to Christ. I'm glad that I am in Christ now. I live by the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. Try it sometime. It's the glorious liberty of the sons of God or slavery to inscriptions on a rock. I know what I choose.

 

[SaysWhat]

Lawlessness is lawlessness there are no intermediates. We are obedient to God's will or not, we all have free will. But I agree God changes our hearts over time when we get closer and are more opened to his will, God is extremely patient but has a limit, remember the story of Jezebel;

Revelation 2:20-23 (KJV):
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Refusing obstinately to change is a FATAL flaw.

There is a difference between jezebel and a Christian who believes in God.

 

[GWH]

In your item one, what is your idea of the "Gospel of Christ," I would like to know, thank you.

The NT good news regarding salvation is that God has made it possible by providing Jesus as the atonement for all sin. God's requirement for receiving forgiveness of sin and salvation is expressed succinctly in 2CR 4:5 & CL 2:6 as “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord”.

The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (DT 6:4, JN 3:16, 2THS 1:6), who is both able (2TM 1:12) and willing (1TM 2:3-4) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (RM 3:23, 2TM 3:2-4, CL 3:5), miserable (GL 5:19-21), and hopeless (EPH 2:12) when they reject God’s salvation (JN 3:18).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ or the way (means of providing salvation) that God has chosen (JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31, PHP 2:9-11), although pre-NT truthseekers could/can learn a proto-gospel (vice the full NT Gospel) per RM 1:20, etc.
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to accept God in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning God’s Word everyone cooperates fully with His will (RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).

 

[Cameron143]

Sorry, yes, we do need to cooperate with God, He does not force us to obey Him. He is at the door, we need to open it. He will not force us to obey, why its our decision.

Rom 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Heb 3:7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,


Why receiving the Spirit is conditional

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

No one walking in the Spirit is arguing about obedience to His law. Paul said it was dishonoring God Rom 2:22-23, Jesus said it was worshipping in vain Mat 15:3-14

It's not simply our decision. We can't conform ourselves to the image of Christ. If we could, we wouldn't need Christ. Further, we can't initiate what is required; only God can. So while we are to work out our salvation, we are to do so in response to what God is doing...Philippians 2:12-13. So it is God who is performing the work. We can obey and the work will occur more quickly, or resist and slow the process. But we cannot initiate the internal work of God or stop it from occurring. We will be conformed to the image of Christ.

 

[Cameron143]

you do not get it Jesus said HE know his sheep, the people he refers to are some who pretend to follow his commandments but do not, this is the whole point of this verse. Jesus will cast them out, remember this..

Right, they weren't saved and never belonged to Him.

 

[Cameron143]

Jesus saved all of us by being fateful and keeping the Commandments, we should follow Him also.

Jesus was under a works covenant. He came to fulfill the law to redeem mankind. We are under a different covenant. It is a covenant of grace wherein we receive forgiveness through His blood, and righteousness through His perfect obedience.
There is nothing wrong with emulating Jesus' behavior, but we cannot of ourselves emulate His inner motivation because our hearts have not been made completely clean. So there is a measure of sin in all we do. And this is why we cannot achieve righteousness through the law ourselves and can only truly obey as Jesus lives in and through us.

 

[Magenta]

Right, they weren't saved and never belonged to Him.

Exactly. Not, hey, I knew you at one time but then you did something I did not like so you are out. But, I NEVER knew you!

I knew you for sixty years but then that one Sabbath day, remember?
You carried a matchstick in your pocket. Damn you to hell to burn forever.
What kind of god do these people worship? .

 

[vassal]

Jesus was under a works covenant. He came to fulfill the law to redeem mankind. We are under a different covenant. It is a covenant of grace wherein we receive forgiveness through His blood, and righteousness through His perfect obedience.
There is nothing wrong with emulating Jesus' behavior, but we cannot of ourselves emulate His inner motivation because our hearts have not been made completely clean. So there is a measure of sin in all we do. And this is why we cannot achieve righteousness through the law ourselves and can only truly obey as Jesus lives in and through us.

""yes it's why Jesus gospel IS repent ( FROM SIN) The kingdom of Heaven is near

"Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near." (Mat 3:2, Mat 4:17)

 

[Cameron143]

""yes it's why Jesus gospel IS repent ( FROM SIN) The kingdom of Heaven is near

"Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near." (Mat 3:2, Mat 4:17)

The kingdom of heaven is here. It in you.

 

[vassal]

The NT good news regarding salvation is that God has made it possible by providing Jesus as the atonement for all sin. God's requirement for receiving forgiveness of sin and salvation is expressed succinctly in 2CR 4:5 & CL 2:6 as “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord”.

The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (DT 6:4, JN 3:16, 2THS 1:6), who is both able (2TM 1:12) and willing (1TM 2:3-4) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (RM 3:23, 2TM 3:2-4, CL 3:5), miserable (GL 5:19-21), and hopeless (EPH 2:12) when they reject God’s salvation (JN 3:18).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ or the way (means of providing salvation) that God has chosen (JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31, PHP 2:9-11), although pre-NT truthseekers could/can learn a proto-gospel (vice the full NT Gospel) per RM 1:20, etc.
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to accept God in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning God’s Word everyone cooperates fully with His will (RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).

yes but you and many other here forget that Jesus came MAINLY to preach repentance AND the Kingdom of Heaven. gospel means good news, in this case the good news of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Matthew 4:17 (NKJV):
"From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, 'Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.'"

And here is Mark 1:15 (NKJV):
"And saying, 'The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent and believe in the gospel.'"

Do you believe the Kingdom of Heaven is coming?, Do you know what to do to be part of it? What does scripture says about this?

 

[vassal]

There is a difference between jezebel and a Christian who believes in God.

A christian that does not want to repent and continues to sin is the same as Jezebel

 

[vassal]

Sure, live u7nder the Old Covenant with all its rules and regulations. Oh, you can't. The temple has been destroyed. Ever wonder why God allowed this? Where are the tablets of stone now? If they were so vital, would God not have ensured their survival. Try reading the rest of the Bible. You will find that the Law is a shadow. I'll live in the light, thanks all the same.

The Law was put in charge of us to lead us to Christ. I'm glad that I am in Christ now. I live by the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. Try it sometime. It's the glorious liberty of the sons of God or slavery to inscriptions on a rock. I know what I choose.

you do not seem to know the difference between the covenant(s) it is why you do not understand, study the differences and see.

Define law of the spirit of Christ, is this in scripture even?