Matt 18:9 Was Jesus being literal with this statement?

[Moses_Young]

Or maybe physical uncircumcision was about uncommitment, distrust, and hiding the source of one's "seed" .

The physical foreskin hides a part of the man that in righteousness only his spouse would normally see, the part out of which his physical "seeds" happen to come.
Our dissimulating masks hide the part of us, our heart, out of which our spiritual "seeds" happen to come. Circumcision lays bare that source. Circumcision is about a covenant of honesty/truthfulness regarding our motives (seeds) for our actions and words (fruit). Uncleanness and sinfulness and shame are not taken away by circumcision. Circumcision is a sign that we believe they have been already taken away (by God's grace), and we can trust in that grace so that there is no need to hide our heart from God any more.

Joshua 5:2 - 9
At that time the Lord said unto Joshua, Make thee sharp knives, and circumcise again the children of Israel the second time.
And Joshua made him sharp knives, and circumcised the children of Israel at the hill of the foreskins.
And this is the cause why Joshua did circumcise: All the people that came out of Egypt, that were males, even all the men of war, died in the wilderness by the way, after they came out of Egypt.
Now all the people that came out were circumcised: but all the people that were born in the wilderness by the way as they came forth out of Egypt, them they had not circumcised.
For the children of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, till all the people that were men of war, which came out of Egypt, were consumed, because they obeyed not the voice of the Lord: unto whom the Lord sware that he would not shew them the land, which the Lord sware unto their fathers that he would give us, a land that floweth with milk and honey.
And their children, whom he raised up in their stead, them Joshua circumcised: for they were uncircumcised, because they had not circumcised them by the way.
And it came to pass, when they had done circumcising all the people, that they abode in their places in the camp, till they were whole.
And the Lord said unto Joshua, This day have I rolled away the reproach of Egypt from off you. Wherefore the name of the place is called Gilgal unto this day.

Reproach can mean shame or disgrace.

Colossians 2:8 - 15
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Association of sins and uncircumcision.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Matt 18:9 If your eye causes you to sin, take it out and throw it away. It is better for you to have only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

This is a challenging scripture.

there’s an instance very much like this in John

“Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

( this is a challenging scripture )

When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:53-61, 63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we take many of the things Jesus teaches as a literal earthly command we’re missing it. He’s using figures we understand to show the spiritual importance of subjects that matter to God he’s giving us an understanding that our human minds can recognize and relate.

It’s really important to deal with any lustful thoughts we’re having towards others is the lesson , even if we have to make painful changes to our life . If our heart is lusting after someone we need to remove the thing causing that lust . It isn’t our eye but the problem is in our heart

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

two men can look at a beautiful woman with thier eyes and one may lust after her while the other sees a child of God no different than any other friend or relative and have no issue with list towards them

the difference isn’t who has an eyeball left to see , but the condition of the two peoples hearts are different. One is full of light the other has many shadows and much is hiding in the darkness

the gospel is full of parables and figurative language meant to give us an understanding of God , ourselves and our relationship with him through the Lord Jesus Christ revealed to all creation. It isnt like the law of Moses wheras they were taught very literally things like cutting off hands , burning for idolatry and witchcraft hangings and stoning a of people ect.

The gospel teaches us that our body is Gods temple so we definitely don’t want to be poking our eyes out or cutting off our right hands or anything suggested in those figurative teachings

But we can learn the importance of certain matters in Gods Will when we hear the gospel understanding it is t a literal commandment but a conveying of a perception of the true God to those who believe

“And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭9:43, 45, 47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

these aren’t about self mutilation but they teach us we have to stop sinning ide tidy the issues and remove them . Having hands and feet and eyes isn’t the thing that causes sin , but having a heart that refuses and is offended by Gods judgements is what causes us to remain in the darkness .

We learn lessons Jesus wasn’t teaching his diciples aboit cannabalism in John there above , but about the fact that he is our life and source of everlasting life and so we need to understand he is our spiritual food we need to stick to Jesus and we’ll grow and learn and become stronger in Gods Will as we persevere in faith

 

[SaysWhat]

Which verses around the context of Abraham's receiving the sign of circumcision mention cleansing?

Sorry for the typo, was meant to be wasn't

 

[PaulThomson]

Proverbs 20:9​

Who can say, ​

"I have made my heart clean, ​

I am pure from my sin"?​

​

apparently you are the answer to the problem even Solomon wasn't wise enough to solve, and you are so amazing you find it merely trivial

bravo, superman.
your willpower and brilliant decision-making has saved you; go in peace.

Ad hominem and moralistic fallacy alert.

 

[PaulThomson]

Joshua 5:2 - 9
At that time the Lord said unto Joshua, Make thee sharp knives, and circumcise again the children of Israel the second time.
And Joshua made him sharp knives, and circumcised the children of Israel at the hill of the foreskins.
And this is the cause why Joshua did circumcise: All the people that came out of Egypt, that were males, even all the men of war, died in the wilderness by the way, after they came out of Egypt.
Now all the people that came out were circumcised: but all the people that were born in the wilderness by the way as they came forth out of Egypt, them they had not circumcised.
For the children of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, till all the people that were men of war, which came out of Egypt, were consumed, because they obeyed not the voice of the Lord: unto whom the Lord sware that he would not shew them the land, which the Lord sware unto their fathers that he would give us, a land that floweth with milk and honey.
And their children, whom he raised up in their stead, them Joshua circumcised: for they were uncircumcised, because they had not circumcised them by the way.
And it came to pass, when they had done circumcising all the people, that they abode in their places in the camp, till they were whole.
And the Lord said unto Joshua, This day have I rolled away the reproach of Egypt from off you. Wherefore the name of the place is called Gilgal unto this day.

Reproach can mean shame or disgrace.

Colossians 2:8 - 15
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Association of sins and uncircumcision.

This is not a citation from Genesis when God gave the sign of circumcision to Abraham.

Genesis 17:
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

There is no mention of circumcision having been given to Abraham for cleansing. It is simply a sign received by males to indicate that they were participants in God's covenant with Abraham and his descendants. Arguably, the reproach that was rolled off of Israel before entering the land was the reproach of their not having kept their covenant, and their failing to have circumcised their male children during their wilderness wanderings. There is no indication the reproach was to do with their uncleanness from sins, The sacrifices dealt with ritual uncleanness.

 

[SaysWhat]

This is not a citation from Genesis when God gave the sign of circumcision to Abraham.

Genesis 17:
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

There is no mention of circumcision having been given to Abraham for cleansing. It is simply a sign received by males to indicate that they were participants in God's covenant with Abraham and his descendants. Arguably, the reproach that was rolled off of Israel before entering the land was the reproach of their not having kept their covenant, and their failing to have circumcised their male children during their wilderness wanderings. There is no indication the reproach was to do with their uncleanness from sins, The sacrifices dealt with ritual uncleanness.

I disagree that God wouldn't use something for duel purposes.

the people certainly realized in those days some of these benefits from the procedure of removing the foreskin.

Reduce the risk of sexually transmitted infections (STIs) like syphilis and chancroid

Reduce the risk of urinary tract infections (UTIs) by 20%

Reduce the risk of penile cancer

Eliminate smegma and unpleasant odors

 

[GWH]

It is literal, but our eye never causes us to sin. Sin arises from desires which when entertained produce sin and death. It is literal, but its intent is to exhort the importance of uncompromisingly cutting off from within the heart whatever does cause us to sin.

We need to understand that divine truth may be conveyed by both literal and figurative language.

 

[Moses_Young]

I disagree that God wouldn't use something for duel purposes.

the people certainly realized in those days some of these benefits from the procedure of removing the foreskin.

Reduce the risk of sexually transmitted infections (STIs) like syphilis and chancroid

Reduce the risk of urinary tract infections (UTIs) by 20%

Reduce the risk of penile cancer

Eliminate smegma and unpleasant odors

While I believe there are health benefits in all of God's Old Testament laws, from the food laws to those about washing to those about mold in houses, I also believe these benefits were secondary. For example, adultery and uncircumcision weren't to be punished by death due to the increased risk of contracting diseases - the moral/spiritual implications were much more serious.

 

[GWH]

Matt 18:9 If your eye causes you to sin, take it out and throw it away. It is better for you to have only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

This is a challenging scripture.

Jesus was being truthful in this figurative statement, literally meaning that unrepentant sinners will wind up in a real hell until justice is achieved.

 

[posthuman]

While I believe there are health benefits in all of God's Old Testament laws, from the food laws to those about washing to those about mold in houses, I also believe these benefits were secondary. For example, adultery and uncircumcision weren't to be punished by death due to the increased risk of contracting diseases - the moral/spiritual implications were much more serious.

i believe the primary meaning of scripture is always that which testifies of Christ - all things are by Him, through Him and for Him

 

[Mem]

Matt 18:9 If your eye causes you to sin, take it out and throw it away. It is better for you to have only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

This is a challenging scripture.

The context lets us know this is speaking of "the one through whom they (stumbling blocks) come!" And in Matthew 18, Jesus follows this context with the parable of the lost sheep and a brother who sins.
So, this scripture speaks to plucking out parts of the body (church), even if that part seems to be to be one of the primary parts by which the body (views) the path. In such cases, it'd be better to be led by nose, the foot, or the hand, or any other part that would provide a steadier (stumble free) walk.

 

[Publican]

Yes He was being literal. The suffering of losing one eye cannot be compared to eternal torment in the Lake of Fire. And that is why we have the Gospel.

As someone who has dealt with issues concerning the eyes and hand my whole life, I agree. I pondered these words often as I went through this trial. Amputation ended up not being required, and the severity of this warning played a very big part in my deliverance. Yah be praised.

 

[Godsgood]

Matt 18:9 If your eye causes you to sin, take it out and throw it away. It is better for you to have only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

This is a challenging scripture.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is what Jesus said that he is speaking in parable.
MARK 4:34
34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Jesus showed a demonstration that the understanding of man is not God's understanding.
TEMPLE:
Man's understanding are the churches, Chapels & Cathedrals
God's understanding is the body of Jesus Christ.
JOHN 2:19-21
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Therefore: Only God can explain this:
It is better for you to have only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

Question: What a man should do to understand the meaning of it?
Answer: Never to use man's own intellect and ask God's mercy.