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the context of "that which is Perfect " means the canonization of scripture. The Word "Perfect " in its Greek translation is not complete without the text and passages.
The statement "The word used is katargēthēsontai is means to fade away, to die out gradually. Tongues, on the other hand uses the word pausontai which means to stop suddenly and that happened at 70AD ."
It is not established in just three verses found in 1 Corinthians chapter 13:8-10.
you must properly exegesis chapters 12- through 14 and in light of the other chapters for the full authorial intent to be achieved.
The Gifts of the Holy Spirit are needed as long as the Church is relevant. Who Christ is the head of.
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The meaning of words are not necessarily established in the sentence they are used. Your comment is nonsensical. Words mean what they mean and context determines what that is if the word has several meanings.
I don't need to exegete 3 chapters to know what a sentence is saying. When the subject matter is prophecy and knowledge? That is it's meaning.
If you're discussing an election, the statement "I am going to run for office" doesn't need an essay to convey it's meaning. Context determines meaning.
The overarching context of those 3 chapters is how to conduct oneself as we await completion. Our need for knowledge and prophecy as a supernatural gift ends when we have the completed word of God. God has not said and is not saying anymore than what is written.
You have now slipped into nonsense talk to cover your ignorance.
Have a good one (as we say in Oz)
I don't need to exegete 3 chapters to know what a sentence is saying. When the subject matter is prophecy and knowledge? That is it's meaning.
If you're discussing an election, the statement "I am going to run for office" doesn't need an essay to convey it's meaning. Context determines meaning.
The overarching context of those 3 chapters is how to conduct oneself as we await completion. Our need for knowledge and prophecy as a supernatural gift ends when we have the completed word of God. God has not said and is not saying anymore than what is written.
You have now slipped into nonsense talk to cover your ignorance.
Have a good one (as we say in Oz)
I said that not him. He didn't use the quote function very well and his post got confusing. 
That is why I thought he said it...
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No, that's not correct. The word "Perfect" is translated from Greek and has a systematic range of meanings. The authorial intent was not to teach the gifts that have stopped in chapter 13. You added that from your bias.
The idea that the gifts ended when, as you say, we have the completed Word of God. FYI, Jesus is the word of GOD.
He is also the one who established the church as he did the Offices of what is called the Five Fold Ministry.
You can name-call all you like, but speaking about ignorance, just show me one verse that says the gifts of the Holy Spirit have stopped. You can't. You have documentation that says they stopped in 70 AD. You resort to name-calling that doesn't change. You have nothing in the word of God that says what you are speaking about.
The idea that the gifts ended when, as you say, we have the completed Word of God. FYI, Jesus is the word of GOD.
He is also the one who established the church as he did the Offices of what is called the Five Fold Ministry.
You can name-call all you like, but speaking about ignorance, just show me one verse that says the gifts of the Holy Spirit have stopped. You can't. You have documentation that says they stopped in 70 AD. You resort to name-calling that doesn't change. You have nothing in the word of God that says what you are speaking about.
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If you could prove it stopped in 70 AD, that would be something you are babbling and dabbling about in the Occult, too. Ask your Medium friend I know you need to go get hypnotized. you and Sawduct can click your heels together and say there is no more gifts. Until you wake up next to Auntie Em.
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You still want to play the fool?
Anyone reading what I said about when I said I went to see at a college a show put on by a hypnotist. Will quickly see how you miss points that are too simple to miss. But for an out, you play this game you feel you need to play to hide from the truth…
Here is one post that you say I was seeking out the occult? That's laugh.
https://christianchat.com/threads/what-is-the-point-in-being-a-prophet.139859/post-5375963
Hypnotic state....
Professional hypnotists for entertainment hold what I call "secular Pentecostal services."
I once saw a professional hypnotist entertaining a college crowd.
He had them...
Speaking in languages not of their own upbringing.
Even had someone interpreting what was said.
Had some feeling deeply moved by love for another.
Making some feel joyous and happy on command. (laughing in the Spirit)
And, even a moment when he had some doing what was identical to what is now called 'slain in the Spirit.'
My eyes were opened wide open that night.
Anyone reading what I said about when I said I went to see at a college a show put on by a hypnotist. Will quickly see how you miss points that are too simple to miss. But for an out, you play this game you feel you need to play to hide from the truth…
Here is one post that you say I was seeking out the occult? That's laugh.
https://christianchat.com/threads/what-is-the-point-in-being-a-prophet.139859/post-5375963
Hypnotic state....
Professional hypnotists for entertainment hold what I call "secular Pentecostal services."
I once saw a professional hypnotist entertaining a college crowd.
He had them...
Speaking in languages not of their own upbringing.
Even had someone interpreting what was said.
Had some feeling deeply moved by love for another.
Making some feel joyous and happy on command. (laughing in the Spirit)
And, even a moment when he had some doing what was identical to what is now called 'slain in the Spirit.'
My eyes were opened wide open that night.
The intent was not to show the gifts had stopped but that 3 of the gifts would cease but as you have stated, you have no idea when that is to occur so how can you possibly argue they haven't?
The word perfect is in the neuter gender. It is not speaking of a person. Why do you keep ignoring this crucial fact?
Paul said tongues is for unbelievers, specifically for unbelievers who refuse to listen. Why do you ignore it's purpose?
How is me saying you are speaking from your ignorance name calling when you are perfectly happy to say I speak from my bias? There will be those who can plainly see the hypocrisy.
Have a nice day sir.
The word perfect is in the neuter gender. It is not speaking of a person. Why do you keep ignoring this crucial fact?
Paul said tongues is for unbelievers, specifically for unbelievers who refuse to listen. Why do you ignore it's purpose?
How is me saying you are speaking from your ignorance name calling when you are perfectly happy to say I speak from my bias? There will be those who can plainly see the hypocrisy.
Have a nice day sir.
neuter gender? LOL, you take one word and make it elite over the whole text. You make descriptive words and make them normative.
Why do you keep ignoring proper biblical interpretation? No, Paul did not say tongues are for the unbeliever.
1cor 14:2,4
2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.
20 Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.
22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those
who believe.
A Sign to Unbelievers.
Why do you keep ignoring proper biblical interpretation? No, Paul did not say tongues are for the unbeliever.
1cor 14:2,4
2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.
20 Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.
22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those
who believe.
A Sign to Unbelievers.
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Look in the mirror, guy. If I made a mistake about your seeing a hypnotist, that's fine. But as I said in another post, I would be happy to discuss this with you and Sawduct in a live setting—unless you are afraid.
Anytime you would like to, both you and Sawduct.
We can talk about the gifts not ceasing or have ceased. You claim to have waking up at the event you saw. You do know there is always a counterfeit. One can't know what a counterfeit is without knowing its legitimacy.
The term "Slain in the Spirit" is not in the Bible. Nor is Trinity. or Rapture unless you read the Latin Bible.
Many in the Bible who came in the presence of God fall as dead men.
Yes, I will concede you are right about the foolishness of those in the Charismatic and Pentecostal churches.
However, many have said that and been very vocal about it. and I personally, as a minister, have confronted many.
Errors happen, and correction is needed. Paul provided that in chapters 12- 14 of 1 Corinthians.
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Here's your problem...
You give every indication as to why MANY will be acting shocked when reality happens and locks down.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,
but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many
will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons
in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare
to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ Mat 7:21-23
The “gifts crowd” llc.
There will be no second chances.
No more room for repentance.
Now… is the time for repentance.
You only think you're strong.
FYI, during the last lockdown in CA, we stayed open as a Church and fought to close. In addition, many churches sued Gaving Newsom and won. FYI, the gate of Hell will not prevail against the Church of the Living God.
The only people shocked were Democrats and other local churches who closed. Again you don't know what you are talking about.
If the next lockdown happens, our Place of Fellowship will remain open as it did last time. I am not afraid to go to jail; I have been there and done that.
You like to judge and stereotype Pentecostals. Please continue. But I don't have the spirit of fear but one of power, love, and a healthy mind. Many people, like yourself, fled CA to "safer states." FYI, we did not. We are thriving and seeing many come to the Lord Jesus Christ. WE call sin what it is. We don't follow the culture. We follow the Full Gospel.
The only people shocked were Democrats and other local churches who closed. Again you don't know what you are talking about.
If the next lockdown happens, our Place of Fellowship will remain open as it did last time. I am not afraid to go to jail; I have been there and done that.
You like to judge and stereotype Pentecostals. Please continue. But I don't have the spirit of fear but one of power, love, and a healthy mind. Many people, like yourself, fled CA to "safer states." FYI, we did not. We are thriving and seeing many come to the Lord Jesus Christ. WE call sin what it is. We don't follow the culture. We follow the Full Gospel.
- Jesus Crucified for my sins.
- Jesus Buried in a rich mans tomb
- Jesus rose from the dead on the third day and is live Lord and King
- He coming Back
- He empowers His church with the Holy Spirit
- to confirm the word with signs and wonders.
We do not need "documentation" to show that which is self-evident.
Did the ancient Hebrews need documentation to understand that the manna and quail had ceased? No, it just ceased.
Did they need documentation to know that the Pillars of Cloud and Fire had ceased? No, it just ceased.
That which is self-evident does not need to be defended.
I notice that the Pentecostal movement spends a lot of time defending what should not need to be defended.
Did the ancient Hebrews need documentation to understand that the manna and quail had ceased? No, it just ceased.
Did they need documentation to know that the Pillars of Cloud and Fire had ceased? No, it just ceased.
That which is self-evident does not need to be defended.
I notice that the Pentecostal movement spends a lot of time defending what should not need to be defended.
LOL,
there is no documentation that proves your understanding that the gifts have stopped.
It's "self-evident." You are the authority over God's word.
Manna and quail are not contextual with the Gifts of the Holy Spirit seen in 1 Corinthians chapters 12 through 14. FYI, we know that there was manna and quail because they were seen in the word of God.
Why is no more quail raining down?
Because that event was descriptive, not normative, as seen in the Word of God.
You should know the difference.
That, too, is self-evident with those who know proper exegesis.
What is a Normative seen in the word of God? Do you know the difference between them?
A "Normative " word of God refers to the concept of God as a standard, action, or idea of how people ought to be.
A "Descriptive" word of God describes God's actions or attributes as seen in scripture without requiring a law to be followed or a direct moral principle needed for proper behavior. A normative word tells you how to act based on God's nature, while a descriptive word tells you what God is like.
What is the point of the quail? God did it
What is the point of the gifts of the Holy Spirit?
1. to edify
2. comfort
3. Exhort
We don't need Manna or quails training down from Heaven, but we do need the Holy Spirit and His gifts.
The word of God provides that evidence. Your self-evident position is not authoritative.
there is no documentation that proves your understanding that the gifts have stopped.
It's "self-evident." You are the authority over God's word.
Manna and quail are not contextual with the Gifts of the Holy Spirit seen in 1 Corinthians chapters 12 through 14. FYI, we know that there was manna and quail because they were seen in the word of God.
Why is no more quail raining down?
Because that event was descriptive, not normative, as seen in the Word of God.
You should know the difference.
That, too, is self-evident with those who know proper exegesis.
What is a Normative seen in the word of God? Do you know the difference between them?
A "Normative " word of God refers to the concept of God as a standard, action, or idea of how people ought to be.
A "Descriptive" word of God describes God's actions or attributes as seen in scripture without requiring a law to be followed or a direct moral principle needed for proper behavior. A normative word tells you how to act based on God's nature, while a descriptive word tells you what God is like.
What is the point of the quail? God did it
What is the point of the gifts of the Holy Spirit?
1. to edify
2. comfort
3. Exhort
We don't need Manna or quails training down from Heaven, but we do need the Holy Spirit and His gifts.
The word of God provides that evidence. Your self-evident position is not authoritative.
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