Could Trump do anything to make you stop supporting him?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,217
6,566
113
2 reasons:
1. It no longer exists
2. Even if it did, no one besides Jesus has ever attained to the righteousness of the law

But listen to what you wrote: the old covenant promised Messiah. That's right. We all need a Savior to provide our righteousness. The old covenant demanded perfect obedience to the law. Failing in any point meant being guilty of the whole law. This was meant to show that the law, because of the weakness of the flesh, could never provide a righteousness greater than that of the scribes and Pharisees. This should have led them to seek another means of righteousness. Instead, they dumbed down the law so that they thought they were keeping it and attaining unto righteousness. Jesus provided a righteousness apart from the law. So even those who turned to Him would need to be under grace, and not the law. That's the new covenant.
The Old Covenant pointed us to Jesus. Those sacrifices that they did all the time were a shadow of Jesus Christ. He was our sin offering. He was our peace offering. He was out burnt offering. And yes, they should have received him when He came the first time at Passover, many didn't. But the Old Covenant has a provision for that, it is known as 2nd Passover and this proves they get a second chance.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,789
6,453
113
62
The Old Covenant pointed us to Jesus. Those sacrifices that they did all the time were a shadow of Jesus Christ. He was our sin offering. He was our peace offering. He was out burnt offering. And yes, they should have received him when He came the first time at Passover, many didn't. But the Old Covenant has a provision for that, it is known as 2nd Passover and this proves they get a second chance.
Where is this 2nd Passover provision? And why would Passover still be in effect?

Have you ever seen all the steps in the Passover celebration? How many of those were present in Jesus' final Passover with His disciples? You don't believe Jesus altered the Passover to Communion?
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,217
6,566
113
Where is this 2nd Passover provision? And why would Passover still be in effect?
Numbers 9:6 And there were certain men, who were defiled by the dead body of a man, that they could not keep the passover on that day: and they came before Moses and before Aaron on that day:

7 And those men said unto him, We are defiled by the dead body of a man: wherefore are we kept back, that we may not offer an offering of the Lord in his appointed season among the children of Israel?

8 And Moses said unto them, Stand still, and I will hear what the Lord will command concerning you.

9 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

10 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If any man of you or of your posterity shall be unclean by reason of a dead body, or be in a journey afar off, yet he shall keep the passover unto the Lord.

11 The fourteenth day of the second month at even they shall keep it, and eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.

12 They shall leave none of it unto the morning, nor break any bone of it: according to all the ordinances of the passover they shall keep it.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,789
6,453
113
62
Numbers 9:6 And there were certain men, who were defiled by the dead body of a man, that they could not keep the passover on that day: and they came before Moses and before Aaron on that day:

7 And those men said unto him, We are defiled by the dead body of a man: wherefore are we kept back, that we may not offer an offering of the Lord in his appointed season among the children of Israel?

8 And Moses said unto them, Stand still, and I will hear what the Lord will command concerning you.

9 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

10 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If any man of you or of your posterity shall be unclean by reason of a dead body, or be in a journey afar off, yet he shall keep the passover unto the Lord.

11 The fourteenth day of the second month at even they shall keep it, and eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.

12 They shall leave none of it unto the morning, nor break any bone of it: according to all the ordinances of the passover they shall keep it.
All that is fine, but there is no need for a Passover under the new covenant. Jesus shed His blood once and for all time. Animal sacrifice is no longer necessary. Hence, Passover is no longer necessary.

Jesus instituted 2 ordinances: baptism and the Lord's supper. Only 2 necessary.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,217
6,566
113
All that is fine, but there is no need for a Passover under the new covenant. Jesus shed His blood once and for all time. Animal sacrifice is no longer necessary. Hence, Passover is no longer necessary.

Jesus instituted 2 ordinances: baptism and the Lord's supper. Only 2 necessary.
What are you talking about? Jesus does not abolish the law, He fulfills it.

Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Every one of us must appear before the Judgement to be judged for the things we have done.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

The blood of Jesus washes away every sin. So that cleans your robes. But we are not simply being judged for the things we haven't done but for those that we have done. The judgement begins with the house of God, but it doesn't stop there, it will go from Christians to Jews and ultimately to the unbelievers.

Matthew 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

The Lord was not commending the servant because his robes were spotless. He was commending him because he had been faithful over a few things. If your robes are not spotless you can't even begin to work. But no one appreciates a football player who at the end of the game has spotless robes. You start the game with spotless robes but it is a warfare, you are in the trenches. We appreciate them for what they have done, not because they started the game with a clean jersey.

Hebrews 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

The process is the same, what has changed is the quality and effectiveness of the blood that is purifying our soul.

The Lord's table is the fulfillment of all those feasts. Most churches do not really keep the feast. According to

1 Corinthians 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

The bread and wine are symbols that we are eating Christ, the reality is that we have received something from the living word in our daily walk that week and come to share it with others. That is what the feasts were. You offered up something, they cooked it and it was given to everyone. It was a giant pot luck barbecue. This is what it means to worship the Lord in Spirit and in Truth. In Spirit and in Truth you are in communion with the Lord Jesus and by sharing what you received others are fed as well. I have met with churches that practiced this, but few do.

Baptism is like Noah going through the flood or like the Children of Israel going through the Red Sea. Either this is a reality or it is simply empty religious practice. During the week are you going through the storm? Are Satan's armies bearing down on you about to destroy you only for God to step in and miraculously deliver you? If so, share those experiences at the Lord's table. If not being dunked in water is not benefiting you not being mixed with faith.

Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Most believers will go through the seven year tribulation because the Lord is going to make this word real to you. Baptism was a promise that you would have to go through the waters of death. Many christians think they can be country club Christians. There will be no country club Christians during the seven year tribulation. There will be no humpty dumpty Christians during the seven year tribulation.

But the same is true of Jews. Many think that being a Jew is based on DNA and not on faith. That is the mixed multitude that came out of Egypt. All of those ones will be power washed away by the end of the seven year tribulation and only those who have mixed the word with faith will be saved.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,629
8,190
113
That's quite the non sequitur.
What about this?

Luk 13:35
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,217
6,566
113
Hebrews 9:27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

All people for all time. Some who died before there was a covenant. Some who never heard the Bible. Others who were under the Old covenant but died the same year Jesus was crucified without knowing anything about His blood. Others who were under the Old Covenant but like Paul repented and turned to the New covenant. And of course, those at the end of the age who are in Israel when all the nations are focused on destroying them and they call out to Jesus to save them.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,629
8,190
113
If Pa, NC and Ga go to Trump the election is over and Ca, Or, Wa and Hawaii will all know this hours before their polls end. I would not be surprised if you see very poor turnout among Democrats in those "blue states".
Trump may or may not screw things up royally. This is a distinct possibility.

But a Kamalatov presidency is unthinkable. Certain doom awaits.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,217
6,566
113
All that is fine, but there is no need for a Passover under the new covenant. Jesus shed His blood once and for all time. Animal sacrifice is no longer necessary. Hence, Passover is no longer necessary.

Jesus instituted 2 ordinances: baptism and the Lord's supper. Only 2 necessary.
Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

According to Paul the Holy Days, the Holy Convocations of the Old Testament, are a shadow of things to come. That is a reference to the day of Atonement, a uniquely Jewish feast and yet it has yet to be fulfilled. The same is true of three feasts where all were to gather to the Lord -- Passover, Shavuout and Feast of Tabernacles. These are a shadow of things to come. Paul wrote this long after Jesus had been crucified on the cross and after the "Old Covenant" had ended according to your theology. Yet, if it had ended then how could these Holy Convocations be dress rehearsals for something that had yet taken place?

The same is true of many prophecies in the OT. The first time Psalm 83 could ever have been fulfilled was in 2023 and 2024. Prior to that there were never all those peoples assembled in war against Israel. Ezekiel 38 and 39 have yet to be fulfilled. Prophecies in Zechariah have yet to be fulfilled.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,629
8,190
113
If Pa, NC and Ga go to Trump the election is over and Ca, Or, Wa and Hawaii will all know this hours before their polls end. I would not be surprised if you see very poor turnout among Democrats in those "blue states".
Welp.....see AZ.

Kari Lake on X: "IT’S WORKING — KEEP GOING! 🗳️ TOTAL: 72.8k 🔵 DEM: 23k 🔴 GOP: 34.2k ⚫ IND: 15.5k TURNOUT: 1.7% 🔵 DEM: 2.7% 🔴 GOP: 4.4% ⚫ IND: 1.3% Tell EVERYONE you know to MAIL their ballot in or go to an EARLY voting center! 🇺🇸 https://t.co/3Yhy5XVKXW" / X
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,629
8,190
113
@amuse


BREAKING: Trump called
@LeaderMcConnell
"a dour, sullen, and unsmiling political hack" and McConnell called Trump ‘stupid and despicable’ according to earth shattering reporting by the AP's Mary Clare Jalonick.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,789
6,453
113
62
Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

According to Paul the Holy Days, the Holy Convocations of the Old Testament, are a shadow of things to come. That is a reference to the day of Atonement, a uniquely Jewish feast and yet it has yet to be fulfilled. The same is true of three feasts where all were to gather to the Lord -- Passover, Shavuout and Feast of Tabernacles. These are a shadow of things to come. Paul wrote this long after Jesus had been crucified on the cross and after the "Old Covenant" had ended according to your theology. Yet, if it had ended then how could these Holy Convocations be dress rehearsals for something that had yet taken place?

The same is true of many prophecies in the OT. The first time Psalm 83 could ever have been fulfilled was in 2023 and 2024. Prior to that there were never all those peoples assembled in war against Israel. Ezekiel 38 and 39 have yet to be fulfilled. Prophecies in Zechariah have yet to be fulfilled.
All the promises of God are in Christ yes and amen. He has accomplished all that needs be done for them to come to consummation and are being implemented as we speak, and have been since Pentecost.

Accomplished, being implemented, will be consummated at the end of time.

To be qualified as the Servant of the Lord, Jesus had to be made like us, live a perfectly righteous life, and suffer and die as an atonement for sin. All that having been done, He sat down and rested from all His work in the re-creation, just as the Father did when He finished the work of creation.

Interestingly, the Father didn't fill out all His creation initially. But over time, gradually the kingdoms of the earth were populated and spread...almost as though physical kingdoms started very small but grew very large. Similarly, the kingdom of God began as a mustard seed and been enlarging ever since. There is a gradualism throughout history to the work and purposes of God.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,217
6,566
113
All the promises of God are in Christ yes and amen. He has accomplished all that needs be done for them to come to consummation and are being implemented as we speak, and have been since Pentecost.

Accomplished, being implemented, will be consummated at the end of time.

To be qualified as the Servant of the Lord, Jesus had to be made like us, live a perfectly righteous life, and suffer and die as an atonement for sin. All that having been done, He sat down and rested from all His work in the re-creation, just as the Father did when He finished the work of creation.

Interestingly, the Father didn't fill out all His creation initially. But over time, gradually the kingdoms of the earth were populated and spread...almost as though physical kingdoms started very small but grew very large. Similarly, the kingdom of God began as a mustard seed and been enlarging ever since. There is a gradualism throughout history to the work and purposes of God.
So then if the promises in the Old Covenant are accomplished at the end of time how could the covenant have been terminated prior to the promises of the covenant being fulfilled?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,789
6,453
113
62
So then if the promises in the Old Covenant are accomplished at the end of time how could the covenant have been terminated prior to the promises of the covenant being fulfilled?
The old covenant anticipated the Messiah coming. Once He came and fulfilled the old covenant, there is no longer any need for it.

Why do you think the old covenant was put in place?
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,217
6,566
113
The old covenant anticipated the Messiah coming. Once He came and fulfilled the old covenant, there is no longer any need for it.

Why do you think the old covenant was put in place?
OK, but the Old covenant prophesied He would come meek and mild rising on a donkey and that He would come in glory. So only half of the prophesied coming of the Messiah has been fulfilled.