Forgiveness

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Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,879
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#21
October 12th is a biblically ordained feast day. It is the Day of Atonement or Yum Kippur. (See Leviticus 16). Included in the requirements God gave His people, are instructions for atonement, not only for personal and family sins, but also instructions for the forgiveness of the nation.

These instructions begin with the identification and confession of our corporate sins and then placing those sins onto the head of a goat. That goat is then removed, along with the confessed sins away from the nation. The nation is then “clean.”

Yeshua moved obedience of Torah from physical requirements to spiritual opportunities by His death and resurrection. We don’t need goats, but we do need forgiveness.

One must wonder what would happen if this nation were to name and seek forgiveness for our many national sins and place them in the hands of Jesus.

I believe Jesus answered that question from the mount.
In truth , democracy is the Will of the many people without a single soveriegn ruler or king

but Christianity is the good and perfect Will of God a patriarchy and kingdom.

americas foundational principle of the Will of the most people ruling the many and making the laws through electing proxies and representatives ect really was founded to stand against the formation that f a kingdom and rule of a single king yet , such is Christianity .

here we are free individually to worship as we choose freely but the very nature of our democracy makes it impossible for a national salvation everyone would have to accept Jesus as lord.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,406
438
83
#22
Love YHWH/God and keep His commandments, no matter what nation you have been scattered to.
Love as in 1 Cor 13:4-7 is the call to choose or not, to be selfish and act and if not and are or not, real simple. Can't do the 1 Cor 13:4-7, as Father in the risen Son Jesus to impute that in you and be floored to the floor in true worship, thank you
 

Seeker47

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2018
1,105
945
113
#23
In truth , democracy is the Will of the many people without a single soveriegn ruler or king

but Christianity is the good and perfect Will of God a patriarchy and kingdom.

americas foundational principle of the Will of the most people ruling the many and making the laws through electing proxies and representatives ect really was founded to stand against the formation that f a kingdom and rule of a single king yet , such is Christianity .

here we are free individually to worship as we choose freely but the very nature of our democracy makes it impossible for a national salvation everyone would have to accept Jesus as lord.
A republic, such as the USA, is founded on the principal that our rulers are answerable to the will of the people. We do have a "King" who can act independently, but within boundaries. His actions are counterbalanced.

Even during the times when Kings had absolute power. God did not allow his people to evade corporate responsibility. The ancient kingdoms of Ephraim and Judah stand as proof.

How much more will we, who do have control of our "King", be held responsible for our corporate actions.
 

Grace911

Active member
Nov 11, 2018
595
148
43
#24
I don't feel like you answered either question. Your answer sounds like the conclusion Solomon stated in Ecclesiastes.
Sorry your feelings do not match my well thought out answer to your very narrow question. How well and how deep is your study in the first five books (ie. Torah)?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,805
6,458
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#25
Sorry your feelings do not match my well thought out answer to your very narrow question. How well and how deep is your study in the first five books (ie. Torah)?
Good answer. First you don't answer, and then you don't answer and subtlety disparage me. Grace and peace.
 

Grace911

Active member
Nov 11, 2018
595
148
43
#26
Good answer. First you don't answer, and then you don't answer and subtlety disparage me. Grace and peace.
Yes, if you want to make a statement in one sentence of what you believe Deuteronomy says, by all means, speak up.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,805
6,458
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#27
Yes, if you want to make a statement in one sentence of what you believe Deuteronomy says, by all means, speak up.
In Deuteronomy, God covenants with the nation Israel. Easy peasy. Care to summarize Revelation in one sentence?
 

Grace911

Active member
Nov 11, 2018
595
148
43
#28
In Deuteronomy, God covenants with the nation Israel. Easy peasy. Care to summarize Revelation in one sentence?
I see I need to research your other quotes to understand better where you are coming from. So far, knowing nothing about your beliefs and understandings that you have. Like do you always ask a question on every post? Is it exciting to you? Are you seeking or dispensing truths? Are you of the commonwealth of Israel or are you the replacement of Israel "the gentile church"? The trail of where the scattered Israelites went is a deeper understanding. Yes, we "lost sheep of the House of Israel" were once close to the promised land and now are scattered among the nations after 2700 years. In that time, we forgot the name of our LORD, we forgot His commandments, and His promises of blessings and cursings, and we worship other gods. A different Jesus than the one Paul preached. Many are understanding the entirety of the Bible through the law in Deuteronomy 24 and through Paul's teaching of the revelation Jesus taught Paul of the meaning of Deuteronomy 24 in the book of Romans chapter 7. The entire canonized bible comes to light why Jesus was to be born, why Jesus was to be hung and die, and why Jesus had to be resurrected and why He had to be seated at the right hand of the Father. Why He only spoke what the Father told Him to say. In just a few sentences I have given you the whole Bible summary which is a love letter to the Bride from the Bridegroom. It is the renewed covenant.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,805
6,458
113
62
#29
I see I need to research your other quotes to understand better where you are coming from. So far, knowing nothing about your beliefs and understandings that you have. Like do you always ask a question on every post? Is it exciting to you? Are you seeking or dispensing truths? Are you of the commonwealth of Israel or are you the replacement of Israel "the gentile church"? The trail of where the scattered Israelites went is a deeper understanding. Yes, we "lost sheep of the House of Israel" were once close to the promised land and now are scattered among the nations after 2700 years. In that time, we forgot the name of our LORD, we forgot His commandments, and His promises of blessings and cursings, and we worship other gods. A different Jesus than the one Paul preached. Many are understanding the entirety of the Bible through the law in Deuteronomy 24 and through Paul's teaching of the revelation Jesus taught Paul of the meaning of Deuteronomy 24 in the book of Romans chapter 7. The entire canonized bible comes to light why Jesus was to be born, why Jesus was to be hung and die, and why Jesus had to be resurrected and why He had to be seated at the right hand of the Father. Why He only spoke what the Father told Him to say. In just a few sentences I have given you the whole Bible summary which is a love letter to the Bride from the Bridegroom. It is the renewed covenant.
I ask questions because it's generally the quickest way to get the information you desire.
I don't believe in replacement theology, and I do believe God will bring many Jews into the kingdom after the fulness of the Gentiles. But I believe it happens under the new covenant, and not the old.
Your short dissertation actually conjures up more questions than it answers.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,879
5,623
113
#30
A republic, such as the USA, is founded on the principal that our rulers are answerable to the will of the people. We do have a "King" who can act independently, but within boundaries. His actions are counterbalanced.

Even during the times when Kings had absolute power. God did not allow his people to evade corporate responsibility. The ancient kingdoms of Ephraim and Judah stand as proof.

How much more will we, who do have control of our "King", be held responsible for our corporate actions.
Yea a kingdom operates by the wiol and command of the king alone , the people are all subject to the king.

america rejected this principle it’s the reason America exists now , rejection of the rule of the British kingdom and rejection of that entire system of a king who rules soveriegnly over the entire kingdom


the subjects who reject the Will of the king then became a democracy where the will of the people makes the laws , makes the rules , govern tbier own selves by thier own collective morality and rule over themselves

Gods kingdom operates and exists by the Will of the king which is irrevocable either the subjects operate within this system of his Will that rules over them , or they reject this system and choose thier own Will

think of American laws friend we argue ,we the people , for instance a question “ should it be legal for a woman to kill her unborn baby ?”

this argument breeds and grows among the people and then our system puts it into the hands of elected representatives of the collective people arguing over these matters.

everything is settled by a vote but eventually these eleceted people are lawmakers , and they appoint judges and make laws and change moralities and legalities of what is morally acceptable in this society and what isn’t ect ect

you have this constant divide over most every issue because there is no foundational point no actual law tbat stays the same it changes like sands shift

is it legal and right for two men to marry each other or two women ?

is it legal and right to kill unborn babies ?

is it legal and right for a man to decide he is a woman and mutilate his flesh and pretend to be a woman ?


those things never come up in a kingdom because you have the kings decree over it all to start with that’s immutable and unchanging

you don’t need to argue and form factions and have votes in a kingdom the kind speaks and everyone accepts it and that’s just the law of his kingdom ect ect

They are two different systems entirely one is a kingdom the other is the people without a king choosing particular leaders every few years by thier own Will they choose the leaders it’s entirely ruled by the Will of the people ……only the people give it to the rich and corrupt among us who raise the most money and recite the right speeches every few years lol

this isn’t possible in a kingdom it’s sure and constant always stable and true never changing and was wrong with the peoples whims but solid and strong and immovable as tbe Will of the great king
 

Seeker47

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2018
1,105
945
113
#31
I would just add one additional thing, in a "Kingdom" as well as a "Democracy" there remains free choice. For example, in both a democracy and a kingdom transgenderism can be the rule of law. In both systems the "subjects" can accept this idea or eject it entirely. There will be consequences for those decisions but the choice remains.

In a democracy our corporate guilt is magnified beyond our personal choices since we do have ultimate control.